Jesus the final sacrifice?

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
It is called being born again. There are many Christians that have never been born again, and just because they know the truth about Jesus, they do not have His divine power living inside of them to stop willfully sinning. (You know the difference between unintentional and willful sins). Daniel 9:24 for us, and for me, is that experience of the Spirit of God coming to dwell inside of us. It is offered to the whole world, but it is accepted only by our free will to repent. God isn't making robots. At the end of the world, all those who are free from sin will enter heaven, but the rest will perish along with Satan and his angels.
Sorry, but the spirit is evident when a person abides by the commandments.

As far as the world being at its worst, that is true, and a sign that the end is near.

Only what pointed to him, like the feasts and sabbaths. The clean and unclean meats were not eternal from the beginning. They were vegetarians up until the flood. But could offer only clean animals for sacrifices and offerings. After the flood they could eat anything that moved on land, clean or unclean. The Law given to Moses prevented them from eating anything that couldn't also be sacrificed to God. Unclean meat represented the pagan Gentiles they were not to marry into. The first Christians still ate only clean, because they were Jews, and the gospel was only for them. When God allowed the gospel to also go to the Gentiles, he lifted that ban and everything was allowed like as after the flood.
The Jerusalem council contradicts your words. Sorry. I can't imagine the spirit and council telling gentiles to eat pork chops and lobster in order to associate with Jews and to worship on the Sabbath in synagogues.

Thought you might like a bit of understanding on meats.
I understood this before.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Sorry, but the spirit is evident when a person abides by the commandments.

That's interesting. Where does it say that in the Tanakh? In the New Covenant it says that in 1 John 3:23-24, but it is talking about abiding in Jesus, as you keep His commandments.
The Jerusalem council contradicts your words. Sorry. I can't imagine the spirit and council telling gentiles to eat pork chops and lobster in order to associate with Jews and to worship on the Sabbath in synagogues.

Paul was there. Here is what he says in 1 Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

The counsel said to still abstain from things strangled and from blood only. Basically the same things God said to Noah.

I understood this before.

Not my understanding you didn't. You only understood the Law. But did you ever understand what Noah could eat?
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
But did you ever understand what Noah could eat?
Those who are under the Noahide covenant (non-Jews) can eat anything they want -- even cockroaches. The same is not true for the Children of Israel, who have some pretty strict laws about what we can and cannot eat.
 

docphin5

Well-known member
Those who are under the Noahide covenant (non-Jews) can eat anything they want -- even cockroaches. The same is not true for the Children of Israel, who have some pretty strict laws about what we can and cannot eat.
You are far worse off than I thought if you need Jewish law to keep you from eating cockroaches.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Ezekiel 36:26-27, Zechariah 7:12, etc. There are more than 10 commandments, and I doubt most Christians keep the true Sabbath.

Ezekiel 36:26-27 is talking about after God puts the laws of love in your heart. That is into your own spirit, by the Spirit and in the Spirit. That is the New Covenant. In the Old Testament, before Christ, only the prophets had His Spirit. That is the same as in Jeremiah 31:31-36 Tanahk. The offspring are Gentile Christians who have been grafted into Israel. Problem is, Jews are still waiting for this to happen when in actuality it has been here for 2000 years.

Love God with all your heart, mind and body; and love your neighbor as yourself. These two commandments go much deeper than the surface commandments of the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments that they were fashioned after, but the 10 could didn't go that deep. Keep those two,, and you more than keep the 10, even the 4th, because the true Sabbath rest is not of the letter of the law and a physical rest, but of the Spirit, the Spirit of Christ abiding inside of us, and a spiritual rest from sin. What it means to be born again is having freedom from sin. There are many so-called Christians that have never been born again. I wasn't for the first 30 years of my life being a "Christian." Then 45 years ago I saw a vision of my sin, God spoke 8 sentences to me, I repented, and my sin nature inherited from Adam's sin, lifted right out of me. I felt light as a feather. And I've been able to hear His voice ever since, because when the sin nature left, the Spirit of God indwelt me so I could now partake of the divine nature of God. Those who haven't had this experience believe that is just foolishness, but that is only the natural mind inherited from Adam thinking that. They can't know the mind of God. So you see, Daniel 9:24 and Jeremiah 31:31-36 has already happened. It is available to everyone in the whole world, but Jesus said, "only a few will find it." But the first were Jews just like you. But when the majority of Jews rejected Him as their Messiah, God put a partial blindness on the Jews, and allowed the gospel to go to the Gentiles, but only until the fullness of the Gentiles comes into His Church. Then all national Jews will see again and all Israel will be saved during the last seven years until the Jesus comes again.

Here again, just telling you facts you don't know for your understanding.

Leviticus 11 says otherwise. Paul was a big problem and abrogater. Not every animal is clean.

Leviticus 20:22-26 22 ‘You shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments, and perform them, that the land where I am bringing you to dwell may not vomit you out. 23 And you shall not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am casting out before you; for they commit all these things, and therefore I abhor them. 24 But I have said to you, “You shall inherit their land, and I will give it to you to possess, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the Lord your God, who has separated you from the peoples. 25 You shall therefore distinguish between clean animals and unclean, between unclean birds and clean, and you shall not make yourselves abominable by beast or by bird, or by any kind of living thing that creeps on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. 26 And you shall be holy to Me, for I the Lord am holy, and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be Mine.

The unclean Gentiles were made clean by God in the New Covenant, along with the unclean animals they represented.

Not expecting you to believe the facts, just be aware of them.

And from things offered to idols. Paul doesn't have a problem with this since it's all clean to him. Noah only offered clean animals for sacrifices. And only clean animals were eaten by Jews. Since the Gentiles were attempting to be grafted in, that would be the expectation for them.

That was not written, nor observed by the Gentiles.

And so did Abel offer only clean meat to God. So, of course, that is the reason why Noah brought 7 of each clean animal, instead of just two. But Noah could eat any meat that was drained of its blood. I think that would be hard for Noah and his family seeing as they were all vegetarians up until God allowed it after the flood for both man and beasts.

He was given everything. That wasn't the case at the council.

Yes it was, because God had cleansed the Gentiles, and the beasts that represented them. The liberty that Jesus gave of all the temporary restrictions that were object lessons only as a "school master" allowed even the Jews to eat everything. But this knowledge was not understood by everyone for a while. Thus the reason for the counsel in the first place.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Ezekiel 36:26-27 is talking about after God puts the laws of love in your heart. That is into your own spirit, by the Spirit and in the Spirit. That is the New Covenant.
There's no change in the law, just that it's made internal to the person. That's the covenant.

In the Old Testament, before Christ, only the prophets had His Spirit.
That's false. There were others.

That is the same as in Jeremiah 31:31-36 Tanahk. The offspring are Gentile Christians who have been grafted into Israel.
Gentiles are only grafted in accordance with Isaiah 56:1-8. One law for the native and stranger.

Problem is, Jews are still waiting for this to happen when in actuality it has been here for 2000 years.
Well, I don't see the whole world following God or His laws so I don't your quite right.

Love God with all your heart, mind and body; and love your neighbor as yourself. These two commandments go much deeper than the surface commandments of the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments that they were fashioned after, but the 10 could didn't go that deep. Keep those two,, and you more than keep the 10, even the 4th, because the true Sabbath rest is not of the letter of the law and a physical rest, but of the Spirit, the Spirit of Christ abiding inside of us, and a spiritual rest from sin.
No, you need the details on how to love God and man which are provided in the law. The true Sabbath is a hole in your argument.

What it means to be born again is having freedom from sin. There are many so-called Christians that have never been born again. I wasn't for the first 30 years of my life being a "Christian." Then 45 years ago I saw a vision of my sin, God spoke 8 sentences to me, I repented, and my sin nature inherited from Adam's sin, lifted right out of me.
Well, you weren't responsible for Adam's sin, so something else occurred. With this thinking, inherited sins were passed down to Mary...

I felt light as a feather. And I've been able to hear His voice ever since, because when the sin nature left, the Spirit of God indwelt me so I could now partake of the divine nature of God. Those who haven't had this experience believe that is just foolishness, but that is only the natural mind inherited from Adam thinking that. They can't know the mind of God. So you see, Daniel 9:24 and Jeremiah 31:31-36 has already happened. It is available to everyone in the whole world, but Jesus said, "only a few will find it." But the first were Jews just like you. But when the majority of Jews rejected Him as their Messiah, God put a partial blindness on the Jews, and allowed the gospel to go to the Gentiles, but only until the fullness of the Gentiles comes into His Church.
Yeah, well nothing has ever been promised to the Church in Tanakh.

Then all national Jews will see again and all Israel will be saved during the last seven years until the Jesus comes again.
We've been seeing and saved for a few years now.

Here again, just telling you facts you don't know for your understanding.
I understand more than you think.

Leviticus 20:22-26 22 ‘You shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments, and perform them, that the land where I am bringing you to dwell may not vomit you out. 23 And you shall not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am casting out before you; for they commit all these things, and therefore I abhor them. 24 But I have said to you, “You shall inherit their land, and I will give it to you to possess, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the Lord your God, who has separated you from the peoples. 25 You shall therefore distinguish between clean animals and unclean, between unclean birds and clean, and you shall not make yourselves abominable by beast or by bird, or by any kind of living thing that creeps on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. 26 And you shall be holy to Me, for I the Lord am holy, and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be Mine.
Yes, this did happen.

The unclean Gentiles were made clean by God in the New Covenant, along with the unclean animals they represented.
As you can see in Jeremiah 31:31-34, the new covenant doesn't apply to gentiles. You can join, though.

Not expecting you to believe the facts, just be aware of them.
I didn't see anything I wasn't aware of.

Yes it was, because God had cleansed the Gentiles, and the beasts that represented them. The liberty that Jesus gave of all the temporary restrictions that were object lessons only as a "school master" allowed even the Jews to eat everMessiah.
Where does the law say it was temporary?

But this knowledge was not understood by everyone for a while. Thus the reason for the counsel in the first place.
Nothing in Tanak says the law was a school master to messiah.
 

docphin5

Well-known member

Bon apetit...
Thanks for proving my point, You would be among the seven nations (a fringe minority population of the world) to eat cockroaches if your jewish law did not forbid it.

That tells us a lot about your inherent mental capacity to discern good from bad without Jewish laws. Simply, you have no ability because you need a law to tell you not to eat cockroaches. Most of the world does not, but you do.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member

Bon apetit...

Cockroaches don't hop. They are unclean to Jews

But grasshoppers, locusts and crickets do. They are clean to Jews.

Personally, I couldn't eat any of them, clean or unclean. But the point is, it is no longer a sin if you do.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Thanks for proving my point, You would be among the seven nations (a fringe minority population of the world) to eat cockroaches if your jewish law did not forbid it.
Actually, if contradicts your point that people have enough sense to not eat these critters.

That tells us a lot about your inherent mental capacity to discern good from bad without Jewish laws.
Rotfl... I guess society should throw all of their laws away since man is so intelligent in all matters.

Simply, you have no ability because you need a law to tell you not to eat cockroaches. Most of the world does not, but you do.
Just because you were proven wrong doesn't mean you have to get so crabby. Enjoy 😉.
 

docphin5

Well-known member
Actually, if contradicts your point that people have enough sense to not eat these critters.


Rotfl... I guess society should throw all of their laws away since man is so intelligent in all matters.
Not all laws, just yours. BTW, laws are for lawbreakers. People led by a moral consciousness obey the law inwardly. IOW, they do not need laws written on stone to know what is good and serviceable to do. This is what you lack, an inner conscience, which is why you lean on an external law to tell you not to eat cockroaches.

Just because you were proven wrong doesn't mean you have to get so crabby. Enjoy 😉.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Not all laws, just yours. BTW, laws are for lawbreakers.
This was already proven wrong. In the garden, Adam hadn't sin and he was given a command.

People led by a moral consciousness obey the law inwardly.
False, people have different or no standards. Have you ever heard of people raised by wolves? What morals do they follow?

IOW, they do not need laws written on stone to know what is good and serviceable to do.
Like being homosexual is beneficial to mankind's future?

This is what you lack, an inner conscience, which is why you lean on an external law to tell you not to eat cockroaches.
I definitely lean on God for understanding. Adam did too and he was created perfectly. Look were his inner consciousn led him?
 

docphin5

Well-known member
This was already proven wrong. In the garden, Adam hadn't sin and he was given a command.
a mythical story where your God begrudged humanity both knowledge of good and evil and eternal life. Their so-called “sin” was to seek wisdom for which your god condemened all humanity forevermore to suffering and death. With a god like that who needs an Adversary!

False, people have different or no standards. Have you ever heard of people raised by wolves? What morals do they follow?
So Jews, like humans raised by wolves, as you say, need an external law to tell them not to eat cockroaches, otherwise they would pick one up and say, “Tastes like chicken.” Whereas, 95% of the remaining world used their internal intelligence to decide that cockroaches have no nutritional value. So you lump Jews, to include yourself, in with those intellectually inferior humans “raised by wolves” who REQUIRE an external law from their god (the same god who begrudged humans knowledge) in order not to eat cockroaches.

Maybe your god thinks so low of the Jews and those raised by wolves that they really do need a law telling them not to eat cockroaches. Good thing you and those raised by wolves have your god because I would hate to see you eat all those cockroaches.

Like being homosexual is beneficial to mankind's future?
more beneficial than your god who begrudged humans access to knowledge.

I definitely lean on God for understanding.
You need to because otherwise you would be eating cockroaches.

Adam did too and he was created perfectly. Look were his inner consciousn led him?
Yeah, to realize YHWH was a despot for condemning all humans just because they sought wisdom.
 
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Jewjitzu

Well-known member
a mythical story where your God begrudged humanity both knowledge of good and evil and eternal life. Their so-called “sin” was to seek wisdom for which your god condemened all humanity forevermore to suffering and death. With a god like that who needs an Adversary!
Interesting. So you think killing someone to gain wisdom isn't evil?

So Jews, like humans raised by wolves, as you say, need an external law to tell them not to eat cockroaches, otherwise they would pick one up and say, “Tastes like chicken.”
So, you're avoiding the question which is no surprise since it contradicts your previous idea that one's innate morals knows everything good and bad.

Whereas, 95% of the remaining world used their internal intelligence to decide that cockroaches have no nutritional value.
Could have been through a process of elimination, right? Especially if you believe in evolution and no God?

So you lump Jews, to include yourself, in with those intellectually inferior humans “raised by wolves” who REQUIRE an external law from their god (the same god who begrudged humans knowledge) in order not to eat cockroaches.
No, I believe in an overall moral standard for all to adhere to. If we allowed gays to rule the world, as you've said you are, the world would depopulate within a matter of years. So much for the betterment of mankind?

Maybe your god thinks so low of the Jews and those raised by wolves that they really do need a law telling them not to eat cockroaches.
No, God didn't want them to pick up habits of the surrounding nations. You know, like the gay, homosexual stuff.

Good thing you and those raised by wolves have your god because I would hate to see you eat all those cockroaches.
I've never eaten them. Just like I've never been gay. Where you raised by a pack of homosexuals?

more beneficial than your god who begrudged humans access to knowledge.
He never did. All in due time. Where you born with a PhD?

You need to because otherwise you would be eating cockroaches.
Well, based on the evidence above, some humans would. Just like choosing to be gay, and eating what they eat, etc.

Rotfl...

Yeah, to realize YHWH was a despot for condemning all humans just because they sought wisdom.
Maybe in Christian theology. Not in mine.
 

docphin5

Well-known member
Interesting. So you think killing someone to gain wisdom isn't evil?
No, I think your scripture clearly states that all humans were condemned to suffer and die merely because they sought wisdom.
So, you're avoiding the question which is no surprise since it contradicts your previous idea that one's innate morals knows everything good and bad.
No, I am saying that 95% of the world who don’t submit to your despot have already figured out NOT to eat cockroaches without your despot telling them not to eat cockroaches.

Could have been through a process of elimination, right? Especially if you believe in evolution and no God?
Oh, I believe in the Most High God who is absolute Good and he does not begrudge humans knowledge.
No, I believe in an overall moral standard for all to adhere to. If we allowed gays to rule the world, as you've said you are, the world would depopulate within a matter of years. So much for the betterment of mankind?
To be clear, you need someone else to tell you not to eat cockroaches otherwise you would, whereas, the majority of humans, to include the homosexuals that you imagine, as you say, would “rule the world”, do not need someone to tell them not to eat cockroaches because they figured that out a long time ago.
No, God didn't want them to pick up habits of the surrounding nations. You know, like the gay, homosexual stuff.
But at least you are not eating cockroaches.
I've never eaten them. Just like I've never been gay.
so you would be gay if your god told you not to be? You need your god to tell you not to be gay otherwise you might be confused about what you really should be. Most people know what whether they are gay or not without having to read their Bible to find out what they are.

Where you raised by a pack of homosexuals?
No. “Packs of homosexuals who rule the world“ only exists in your imagination.

He never did. All in due time. Where you born with a PhD?
No. I just use the moral intelligence that the Most God High gave me. I don’t need your god to tell me not to eat cockroaches in order not to eat cockroaches.
Well, based on the evidence above, some humans would.
…a minority of humans would eat cockroaches, like you, apparently if your god had told you not to.

Just like choosing to be gay, and eating what they eat, etc.
Gays do not eat cockroaches because it is the smart thing NOT to do unlike you who needs a god to tell you not to eat cockroaches.

I am merely demonstrating the absurdity of your opinions.
Maybe in Christian theology. Not in mine.
you should try reading your own scriptures rather than imagine packs of gays rule the world.
 
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Jewjitzu

Well-known member
No, I think your scripture clearly states that all humans were condemned to suffer and die merely because they sought wisdom.
Well, I think you've been influenced by Christians.

No, I am saying that 95% of the world who don’t submit to your despot have already figured out NOT to eat cockroaches without your despot telling them not to eat cockroaches.
Did they evolve in their thinking or figure it out automatically?

Oh, I believe in the Most High God who is absolute Good and he does not begrudge humans knowledge.
Does He/She/It have any rules?

To be clear, you need someone else to tell you not to eat cockroaches otherwise you would, whereas, the majority of humans, to include the homosexuals that you imagine, as you say, would “rule the world”, do not need someone to tell them not to eat cockroaches because they figured that out a long time ago.
Really? Why do kids stick anything in their mouths then? Similar application to homosexuals and their habits?

But at least you are not eating cockroaches.
Yes, just the gummy candy kind. Kosher of course.

so you would be gay if your god told you not to be? You need your god to tell you not to be gay otherwise you might be confused about what you really should be. Most people know what whether they are gay or not without having to read their Bible to find out what they are.
Some would think that. I don't. Just like some would think it ok to commit adultery. I don't.

No. “Packs of homosexuals who rule the world“ only exists in your imagination.
Have you seen San Francisco, Seattle, the Village NYC, etc.?

No. I just use the moral intelligence that the Most God High gave me. I don’t need your god to tell me not to eat cockroaches in order not to eat cockroaches.
Great. Did He tell you to be a homosexual? Or you knew that was moral and OK?

…a minority of humans would eat cockroaches, like you, apparently if your god had told you not to.
Sorry, I don't eat them.

Gays do not eat cockroaches because it is the smart thing to do unlike you who needs a god to tell them not to eat cockroaches.
Really? Since you're familiar with their eating habits, is there anything unhealthy they eat or do that they shouldn't?

I am merely demonstrating the absurdity of your opinions.
And I'm merely laughing.

you should try reading your own scriptures.
You should try a different approach to your learning and alternative life style.
 
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