Jesus the final sacrifice?

docphin5

Well-known member
Well, I think you've been influenced by Christians.


Did they evolve in their thinking or figure it out automatically?
They figured it out despite your despot trying to keep them from knowledge.
Does He/She/It have any rules?
Yes, the moral rules written on our heart Versus your rules allegedly written on stone, without which you apparently would be eating cockroaches.

Really? Why do kids stick anything in their mouths then?
Because they are children, but when they grow into adults they know not to stick everything into their mouth. But since you still think like a child you need a despot to tell you and the other children raised by wolves not to eat cockroaches.
Similar application to homosexuals and their habits?
only in your warped mind.
Yes, just the gummy candy kind. Kosher of course.


Some would think that. I don't. Just like some would think it ok to commit adultery. I don't.


Have you seen San Francisco, Seattle, the Village NYC, etc.?
Nope, but I do not judge all gays by the extreme forms of it, just as I do not judge all heterosexuals because of Hugh Hefner. But that would require a moral intelligence and since you don’t have one because you need a despot to tell you not to eat cockroaches, then you would not understand the distinction.
Great. Did He tell you to be a homosexual? Or you knew that was moral and OK?
He told me not to cause harm to others. Apparently, the whole Mosaic law can be summed up in that one requirement. You must have missed that class.

Sorry, I don't eat them.


Really? Since you're familiar with their eating habits, is there anything unhealthy they eat or do that they shouldn't?
They do not condemn others to death merely because a despot orders them to do so, as you have admitted you would do.
And I'm merely laughing.


You should try a different approach to your learning and alternative life style.
And end up like you? Don’t think so.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
They figured it out despite your despot trying to keep them from knowledge.
So basically they didn't have the morals to get it right the first time?

Yes, the moral rules written on our heart Versus your rules allegedly written on stone, without which you apparently would be eating cockroaches.
How/why did those rules get written on your heart if you already knew them and were smart enough to figure them out?

Because they are children, but when they grow into adults they know not to stick everything into their mouth.
So the morals, intelligence, was written on their hearts?

But since you still think like a child you need a despot to tell you and the other children raised by wolves not to eat cockroaches.
Rotfl... who wrote the rules, morals on your heart?

only in your warped mind.
No, only in the homosexuals mind.

Nope, but I do not judge all gays by the extreme forms of it, just as I do not judge all heterosexuals because of Hugh Hefner. But that would require a moral intelligence and since you don’t have one because you need a despot to tell you not to eat cockroaches, then you would not understand the distinction.
But you require rules on the heart or you wouldn't know, right?

He told me not to cause harm to others. Apparently, the whole Mosaic law can be summed up in that one requirement. You must have missed that class.
Rotfl... so you do need help in knowing right from wrong. You contradict yourself, you know that, right?

They do not condemn others to death merely because a despot orders them to do so, as you have admitted you would do.
Rotfl... kind of like homosexuals condemn others to death with their lifestyle? And you're ok with that.

And end up like you? Don’t think so.
It's hard breaking out of gnosticsm - a convenient god.
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
The "oral Torah" was judgments in court. They must complete their punishments.
Yes, judgments of the court that interpreted the law. For much of history, this "case law" was passed on orally. Now it is written down in the Talmud. It is far, far more than a determination of punishments -- oral Torah makes it possible to keep the 613 laws by nailing down exactly what they mean and by "putting a fence around the torah" by not even coming near breaking the Law lest we accidently break it.
Jeremiah 31:31-36 Tanahk has been happening for the past 2000 years. What you don't realize is that it is for only those who accept this New Covenant. Most of the Jews didn't.
I replied to this already in my previous post. You didn't deal with the examples I gave of how the conditions of the New Covenant have not yet been met.
Here is my personal experience of the New Covenant that I wrote to Jewjitzu above.

Love God with all your heart, mind and body; and love your neighbor as yourself.
Every Rabbi I have ever known has taught that all the 613 commandments follow under the headings of those two commandments. Jesus was not original in his teaching on this.
These two commandments go much deeper than the surface commandments of the Old Covenant, the Ten Commandments that they were fashioned after, but the 10 could didn't go that deep. Keep those two,, and you more than keep the 10, even the 4th, because the true Sabbath rest is not of the letter of the law and a physical rest, but of the Spirit, the Spirit of Christ abiding inside of us, and a spiritual rest from sin. What it means to be born again is having freedom from sin. There are many so-called Christians that have never been born again.
Are you familiar with the "No True Scotsman" fallacy?
I wasn't for the first 30 years of my life being a "Christian." Then 45 years ago I saw a vision of my sin, God spoke 8 sentences to me, I repented, and my sin nature inherited from Adam's sin, lifted right out of me. I felt light as a feather. And I've been able to hear His voice ever since, because when the sin nature left, the Spirit of God indwelt me so I could now partake of the divine nature of God. Those who haven't had this experience believe that is just foolishness, but that is only the natural mind inherited from Adam thinking that. They can't know the mind of God. So you see, Daniel 9:24 and Jeremiah 31:31-36 has already happened. It is available to everyone in the whole world, but Jesus said, "only a few will find it." But the first were Jews just like you. But when the majority of Jews rejected Him as their Messiah, God put a partial blindness on the Jews, and allowed the gospel to go to the Gentiles, but only until the fullness of the Gentiles comes into His Church. Then all national Jews will see again and all Israel will be saved during the last seven years until the Jesus comes again. Then all sinners will be destroyed, leaving only those whose sins have been taken away and cleansed. This last sentence is what you are waiting for. But accepting Jesus as your Messiah has to come first and is now.

Open Heart, I will finish the rest of your post later. Good morning!
Thank you so much for sharing. It's nice to get to know you. But of course, we do disagree. :)
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Thank you so much for sharing. It's nice to get to know you. But of course, we do disagree. :)

My computer motherboard crashed so I had to buy a new computer, but the old one lasted 12 years which is pretty good.

Yes, we disagree, but if I were you I would want the New Covenant over the old one. I get to ask God questions and He immediately answers me. And 100% of my prayers are answered. Do you have any kind of tangible relationship with God?
 
Doesn't answer the question. Sacrifices were still brought because Jesus' blood didn't satisfy the law.
Jesus wasn't the final sacrifice if they were still being brought until the destruction.
Hello Jewjitzu (I like your username, BTW :)), before I answer your questions, there is one thing that I have always wanted to know and understand about the practice of modern Judaism (since A.D. 70), and I'm hoping that you will be able to tell me. We both (Jews/Christians) agree/believe that our sins cannot be atoned for and forgiven by God willy-nilly/IOW, by simply asking Him to do so, rather, that a sacrifice is required.

My question for you is this, on what basis have Jews continued to believe that their sins have been/are being forgiven since the destruction, since no sacrifices for them have been made since that time :unsure: (on what basis, for instance, do you believe that your sins are forgiven by God :unsure:)

Thanks!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - I have yet to read through your entire thread, so if you have already answered the question that I just asked you, please point me to the post that answers it. Thank you!

.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Hello Jewjitzu (I like your username, BTW :)), before I answer your questions, there is one thing that I have always wanted to know and understand about the practice of modern Judaism (since A.D. 70), and I'm hoping that you will be able to tell me. We both (Jews/Christians) agree/believe that our sins cannot be atoned for and forgiven by God willy-nilly/IOW, by simply asking Him to do so, rather, that a sacrifice is rGracia!
All sins did not require sacrifices. Some required payment, compensation, returning, etc.

But in no case was human sacrifices condoned. In fact, it was idolatrous and practiced by the pagan nations.

My question for you is this, on what basis have Jews continued to believe that their sins have been/are being forgiven since the destruction, since no sacrifices for them have been made since that time :unsure: (on what basis, for instance, do you believe that your sins are forgiven by God :unsure:)

Thanks!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - I have yet to read through your entire thread, so if you have already answered the question that I just asked you, please point me to the post that answers it. Thank you!

.
On what basis was Daniel's generation forgiven without sacrifices?

Hosea prophesied that there would be a time when the temple and sacrifices wouldn't be available, and that prayers would suffice, Hosea 14:2.

On what basis are your sins covered since Jesus' blood didn't make it on the altar as required by the commandments? How did Jesus make payment for sins that required compensation, etc.?

On what basis are you under any covenant since Jeremiah 31:31-34 is exclusively to Israel?
 
Hello again @Jewjitzu, thank you for all of the additional thoughts and questions. Unfortunately, they do not answer the question that I asked you. So, let me ask it again, on what basis do Jews believe that their sins are forgiven by God today/since the destruction :unsure:

I am certain that if I was a Jew, that would be one of the very first questions that I would want to have answered by my Rabbi (considering the importance of the topic, and the fact that the animal sacrifices for sin no longer happen). You grew up as a practicing Jew, and you are still one today, yes, so what answer(s) were you given about that :unsure:


Thanks again!

~Deuteronomy
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Hello again @Jewjitzu, thank you for all of the additional thoughts and questions. Unfortunately, they do not answer the question that I asked you. So, let me ask it again, on what basis do Jews believe that their sins are forgiven by God today/since the destruction :unsure:

I am certain that if I was a Jew, that would be one of the very first questions that I would want to have answered by my Rabbi (considering the importance of the topic, and the fact that the animal sacrifices for sin no longer happen). You grew up as a practicing Jew, and you are still one today, yes, so what answer(s) were you given about that :unsure:


Thanks again!

~Deuteronomy
Sorry, but I've answered.
 
Sorry, but I've answered.
No, you didn't!

Perhaps I have not asked you a specific enough question, so I will try my best to do so one more time. On what basis do YOU (as a Jew) believe that YOUR sins are atoned for and then forgiven by God (since the animal sacrifices for sin are no longer being performed) :unsure:

Thank you!

~Deuteronomy
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
My computer motherboard crashed so I had to buy a new computer, but the old one lasted 12 years which is pretty good.

Yes, we disagree, but if I were you I would want the New Covenant over the old one. I get to ask God questions and He immediately answers me. And 100% of my prayers are answered. Do you have any kind of tangible relationship with God?
Why would I want something new when A) the original works just fine and B) the new conflicts with the original, so that they cannot both be true.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
No, you didn't!

Perhaps I have not asked you a specific enough question, so I will try my best to do so one more time. On what basis do YOU (as a Jew) believe that YOUR sins are atoned for and then forgiven by God (since the animal sacrifices for sin are no longer being performed) :unsure:

Thank you!

~Deuteronomy
I answered. The same way Daniel's sins were forgiven without a sacrifice, or David forgiven after he sinned with Batsheba and Nathan told him he was forgiven without a sacrifice, the same today.

On what basis do you think you're forgiven when Jesus blood never maid it to the altar in Jerusalem? You're not in the covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34?
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
On what basis do YOU (as a Jew) believe that YOUR sins are atoned for and then forgiven by God
Forgiveness requires only repentence. You can atone for unconditional sins, but you cannot buy your way out of your responsibility for intentional sins -- you must do the hard work and turn away from your sins and back to God's ways.

As for not having the temple and being unable to offer any of the many types of sacrifices, Hosea makes it clear what we are to do: Hosea 14:2 "Let the words of our lips (prayers) be as bullocks (sacrifices).
 

Open Heart

Well-known member
Even when the New is prophesied in the Old Testament, and is to be better than the old covenant?
There is nothing in the NT that is prophesized in the Tanakh (OT). Christians have been trained to see prophecies where none exist.

There is a prophecy of a new covenant, but this has not yet come to pass. We will know we are in the new covenant when
1. we no longer have to teach our children right from wrong and
2. atheists no longer exist
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
In the OT after the law was given to Moses, a person who was used to doing as they liked before the law, now had laws that were against doing what they liked. It was like kindergarten for righteousness. So they had to memorize all these laws that were against what they wanted to do, which were stored in their mind. But what they naturally wanted to do, Paul calls "the flesh." Romans 8:8 "So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God." This describes those of the Old Testament who were under the law, but their heart/flesh wasn't in it. Romans 7:25 "So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

Jesus solved this problem by making the law unnecessary to be memorized. In the New Covenant, instead of a person being forced to keep the law when the heart and flesh didn't want to, Jesus filled us with His Spirit and recreated our heart/nature (reborn) to be in line with God's laws and no longer against it. That is what happened when Jesus wrote the law on our hearts. So we are free from the written law, and instead keep righteousness automatically as it is now our nature to be righteous. It is now our desire to keep the law, because our conscience (which is the heart where the laws are written) is super-sensitized to empower us to not want to disobey it. This why Paul said this powerful verse in Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law."
How do you keep the law automatically? Which ones?
 
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