Jesus The MAN is NOT God.

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Yahchristian

Well-known member
johnny guitar said:
Jesus The MAN is NOT God; Jesus The Son of God IS.
Click to expand...

That is a big difference between Trinitarians (and Unitarians) and myself.

Trinitarians (and Unitarians) believe the man Christ Jesus is NOT God.

Whereas I believe the man Christ Jesus IS God with us.

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Matthew 1:23... Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

What do the rest of you believe...

Jesus The MAN is NOT God. TRUE or FALSE?

P.S.

Here is a summary of what I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Here is a little more detail of what I believe..

For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creation) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 
L

Lilel01

Well-known member
Jesus, the man, was not god. That (godly) nature is only a spirit nature ... although the term "god" has been applied to human judges in another sense as well.

Jesus in heaven has a divine nature, and yet that does not make him equal to GOD, the Majesty, nor does it grant him the capabilities that the Most High does not share with anyone.
 
L

Lilel01

Well-known member
Dizerner said:
From my observation this is not universal, but divided.

I consider myself a Trinitarian who believes the man Jesus Christ was literally God.
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And do you think any of Jesus' followers believed the same when he was among them?
 
L

Lilel01

Well-known member
Did Jesus' disciples at Pentecost believe that he was GOD? What does the Scripture say?

Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ was a man publicly shown to you by God through powerful works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know. 23 This man, who was handed over by the determined will and foreknowledge of God, you fastened to a stake by the hand of lawless men, and you did away with him. 24 But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it. (...)
32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says [in Psal. 110:1], ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”
 
J

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Lilel01 said:
Jesus, the man, was not god. That (godly) nature is only a spirit nature ... although the term "god" has been applied to human judges in another sense as well.

Jesus in heaven has a divine nature, and yet that does not make him equal to GOD, the Majesty, nor does it grant him the capabilities that the Most High does not share with anyone.
Click to expand...
God ALONE has The Divine nature.
 
J

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Lilel01 said:
Did Jesus' disciples at Pentecost believe that he was GOD? What does the Scripture say?

Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ was a man publicly shown to you by God through powerful works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know. 23 This man, who was handed over by the determined will and foreknowledge of God, you fastened to a stake by the hand of lawless men, and you did away with him. 24 But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it. (...)
32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says [in Psal. 110:1], ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ poured out The Holy Spirit, something ONLY God can do.
 
J

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Yahchristian said:
That is a big difference between Trinitarians (and Unitarians) and myself.

Trinitarians (and Unitarians) believe the man Christ Jesus is NOT God.

Whereas I believe the man Christ Jesus IS God with us.

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Matthew 1:23... Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

What do the rest of you believe...

Jesus The MAN is NOT God. TRUE or FALSE?

P.S.

Here is a summary of what I believe...

GOD is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. GOD is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. GOD in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, GOD in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal GOD is called God the Father.

Here is a little more detail of what I believe..

For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creation) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
Click to expand...
True.
Jesus The Son of God is God.
 
L

Lilel01

Well-known member
Lilel01 said:
Did Jesus' disciples at Pentecost believe that he was GOD? What does the Scripture say?

Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ was a man publicly shown to you by God through powerful works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know. 23 This man, who was handed over by the determined will and foreknowledge of God, you fastened to a stake by the hand of lawless men, and you did away with him. 24 But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it. (...)
32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says [in Psal. 110:1], ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”
Click to expand...
Did Peter tell the Jews that Jesus was GOD because he had sent the holy spirit to them from heaven?

John 14:15 “If YOU love me, YOU will observe my commandments; 16 and I will request the Father and he will give YOU another helper to be with YOU forever, 17 the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot receive, because it neither beholds it nor knows it. YOU know it, because it remains with YOU and is in YOU.

Acts 2:33 Therefore because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out this which YOU see and hear.
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
Lilel01 said:
Did Jesus' disciples at Pentecost believe that he was GOD? What does the Scripture say?

Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ was a man publicly shown to you by God through powerful works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know. 23 This man, who was handed over by the determined will and foreknowledge of God, you fastened to a stake by the hand of lawless men, and you did away with him. 24 But God resurrected him by releasing him from the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held fast by it. (...)
32 God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear. 34 For David did not ascend to the heavens, but he himself says [in Psal. 110:1], ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand 35 until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”’ 36 Therefore, let all the house of Israel know for a certainty that God made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you executed on a stake.”
Click to expand...

Yes, they did believe the Lord Jesus is God. You should have started with Acts 2:21.
https://forums.carm.org/threads/paul-applies-yhwh-from-joel-3-5-lxx-unto-the-lord-jesus-in-romans-10-13.7415/
 
Y

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Yahchristian said:
Jesus The MAN is NOT God. TRUE or FALSE?
Click to expand...
johnny guitar said:
True.
Click to expand...

And just to clarify...

Do you believe this statement is TRUE or FALSE?

The child who grew up to be the man Christ Jesus was God with us.

I say TRUE.

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Matthew 1:23... Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
 
1

101G

Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all.
Jesus is "Spirit", who came in Flesh. Natural Flesh... who in Person, is the "son of God". the flesh is not the Spirit, but the "Son of man", the spirit, is God in flesh.
PICJAG, 101G.
 
Y

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Dizerner said:
Who could literally SEND the Holy Spirit of God but God, himself.
Click to expand...

I think according to your Trinitarian view, God and the Holy Spirit both refer to OMNIPRESENT Spirit. Correct me if I am mistaken.

So what exactly does “SEND” in your statement mean?

Spiration? Or something else?

I believe the Holy Spirit was “sent” when TRANSCENDENT God became IMMANENT in the universe.
 
L

Lilel01

Well-known member
When the angel told Mary about her pregnancy, did he tell her that she was going to be pregnant with God?

Luke 1:31 And look! you will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus. 32 This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule as King over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end to his Kingdom.” (...)
35(...) the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son. ..."

That is the truth.
 
F

Fred

Well-known member
Lilel01 said:
When the angel told Mary about her pregnancy, did he tell her that she was going to be pregnant with God?
Click to expand...
Yes, because Jesus being the Son is God (see below).

Lilel01 said:
Luke 1:31 And look! you will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus. 32 This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule as King over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end to his Kingdom.” (...)
35(...) the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son. ..."
Click to expand...

The bold face above is mine.

Notice in Luke 22:69 He refers to what is spoken about Him being the Son in Daniel 7. In Daniel 7:14 the Son (in reference to the Lord Jesus) is the proper recipient of pelach - worship due unto God alone.
https://forums.carm.org/threads/the-son-of-man-jesus-is-god-daniel-7-14-acts-7.7468/
 
L

Lilel01

Well-known member
The Son of the Most High IS NOT the Most High ... neither the Majesty.

Dan. 7:13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.

Jesus will reign over the entire planet when he eliminates the rest of the rulers of the world that exist now.

Dan. 2:44 “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever, 45 just as you saw that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the clay, the silver, and the gold. The Grand God has made known to the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

The Bible does not say what people want it to say. They call it "eisegesis."
 
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