Jesus The MAN is NOT God.

[Theo1689]

When the angel told Mary about her pregnancy, did he tell her that she was going to be pregnant with God?

Luke 1:31 And look! you will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus. 32 This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule as King over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end to his Kingdom.” (...)
35(...) the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son. ..."

That is the truth.

First of all, I don't undestand the irrational arguments this poster posts:

"He's called Saviour, so that means He can't be God!"
"He's called Shepherd, so that means He can't be God!"
"In order to be God, EVERYONE around Him has to admit it!"

These arguments are like arguing,
"The car is red, so it can't be a Corvette!"
"The car has four wheels, so it can't be a Corvette!"

All these poster does is IGNORE all the the passages which EXPLICITLY teach that Jesus is God (Isa. 9:6, John 1:1, 20:28, Acts 20:28, Rom. 9:5, Phil. 2:5-6, Col. 2:9, Tit. 2:13, Heb. 1:8, 2 Pet. 1:1, etc.), and appeal to passages which are SILENT on the issue.

But if you want to talk about the birth of Jesus:

Matt. 1:23 “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).

 

[Fred]

Dan. 7:13 “I kept watching in the visions of the night, and look! with the clouds of the heavens, someone like a son of man was coming; and he gained access to the Ancient of Days, and they brought him up close before that One. 14 And to him there were given rulership, honor, and a kingdom, that the peoples, nations, and language groups should all serve him. His rulership is an everlasting rulership that will not pass away, and his kingdom will not be destroyed.

The boldface above and below is mine.

New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis (NIDOTTE): His kingdom embraces all the powers of heaven and earth (4:35), yet never ending dominion is given to a human figure, whom all nations are to worship (7:13-14) (4:504, Theology of Daniel, J. Baldwin, Editor: Willem A. VanGemeren).

 

[Lilel01]

If Jesus IS NOT the Most High AND if Jesus IS NOT the Majesty,
THEN Jesus IS NOT GOD.

Who, then, would be GOD?

 

[Fred]

If Jesus IS NOT the Most High AND if Jesus IS NOT the Majesty,
THEN Jesus IS NOT GOD.

Who, then, would be GOD?

The BDAG (3rd Edition) defines hypsistos as "pertaining to being the highest in status, ὁ ὕψιστος, the Most High of God, distinguished from lesser deities and other objects of cultic devotion" (page 1045).

The fact that the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of cultic devotion (religious worship) in equality with the Father demonstrates that He is not at all distinguished from the Father as a lesser object of cultic devotion. This proves the Lord Jesus is "the Most High God."

 

[Lilel01]

Who is the Most High? Who is the Majesty of the Universe?

It is Jehovah, the One who gave him his spirit, resurrected him, exalted him, seated him on his right hand, and gave him a kingdom.

Psal. 148:13 Let them praise the name of Jehovah,
For his name alone is unreachably high.
His majesty is above earth and heaven.

Heb. 1:1 God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places.

 

[Fred]

Who is the Most High? Who is the Majesty of the Universe?

It is Jehovah, the One who gave him his spirit, resurrected him, exalted him, seated him on his right hand, and gave him a kingdom.

Psal. 148:13 Let them praise the name of Jehovah,
For his name alone is unreachably high.
His majesty is above earth and heaven.

Heb. 1:1 God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places.

You ignored how the Greek word is properly defined in my previous post. Don't think by jumping everywhere else that it will somehow disappear.

 

[Lilel01]

You ignore the Bible.

Heb. 8:1 Now as to the things being discussed this is the main point: We have such a high priest as this, and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a public servant of the holy place and of the true tent (...)

 

[Theo1689]

You ignore the Bible.

Heb. 8:1 Now as to the things being discussed this is the main point: We have such a high priest as this, and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a public servant of the holy place and of the true tent (...)

A neat trick, getting to Heb. 8:1, while skipping OVER Heb. 1:8...

Heb. 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

 

[Fred]

You ignore the Bible.

The "Most High" is in the Bible.

Keep hiding.

 

[jamesh]

When the angel told Mary about her pregnancy, did he tell her that she was going to be pregnant with God?

Luke 1:31 And look! you will become pregnant and give birth to a son, and you are to name him Jesus. 32 This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, 33 and he will rule as King over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end to his Kingdom.” (...)
35(...) the angel said to her: “Holy spirit will come upon you, and power of the Most High will overshadow you. And for that reason the one who is born will be called holy, God’s Son. ..."

That is the truth.

He will be called Immanuel, God with us. Before Acts Thomas declared to Jesus, his Lord and his God. Case closed.
james

 

[Tanachreader]

You ignore the Bible.

Heb. 8:1 Now as to the things being discussed this is the main point: We have such a high priest as this, and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a public servant of the holy place and of the true tent (...)

Who is the WORD. God.
What did He do. Became a human.

 

[Fred]

Before Acts Thomas declared to Jesus, his Lord and his God.

Thanks for pointing out what Thomas said in John 20:28.

Since Lilel01 is a Jehovah's Witness I would be interested in his thoughts about this:

The Watchtower: Only an inferior, a worshiper, can refer to another as "my God." (The Trinity—Should You Believe It?, February 1, 1984, page 5, the underlined and boldface are mine).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1984081

Since Thomas referred to the Lord Jesus as "my God" (John 20:28) was Thomas "a worshiper" of the Lord Jesus?

 

[Lilel01]

If Jesus IS NOT the Most High AND if Jesus IS NOT the Majesty,
THEN Jesus IS NOT GOD.

Who, then, would be GOD?

The High Priest serves Jehovah together with the other priests. Jesus serves Jehovah in heaven and his brothers anointed with him. Jehovah is the God of all of them, and of true Christians here on earth.

You ignore the Bible.

Heb. 8:1 Now as to the things being discussed this is the main point: We have such a high priest as this, and he has sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a public servant of the holy place and of the true tent (...)

No one in heaven is Trinitarian.

Rev. 5:9,10
And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

You must listen Jesus, and learn the truth from the Bible:

Rev. 3:12 “‘The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name. 13 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’

 

[Lilel01]

The High Priest serves Jehovah together with the other priests. Jesus serves Jehovah in heaven and his anointed brothers with him.
Jehovah is the God of all of them, and of true Christians here on earth.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

 

[Fred]

Rev. 5:9
And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation

You dodged this concerning Revelation 5:9.

Jesus as Son of God before becoming a human

There are at least four recorded events that marked Jesus as God's special Son: 1) at the time of his conception in the womb of Mary; 2) at the time of his baptism; 3) at the moment when God shows to others that he has been approved by him as Son, at the Transfiguration (Matt. 17:5); 4) at the...

forums.carm.org

According to the Jehovah's Witnesses (and you claimed to be one) "true worship" involves singing to Christ. Do you agree?

Insight on the Scriptures: Instrumental music in connection with true worship is mentioned only in a figurative sense in the Greek Scriptures (Re 14:2); yet singing seems to have been quite common among God's servants. Jesus and his apostles sang praises after the Lord's Evening Meal. (Mr 14:26) Luke tells of Paul and Silas singing when in prison, and Paul's encouragement to fellow believers was to sing songs of praise to Jehovah. (Ac 16:25; Eph 5:18, 19; Col 3:16) Paul's statement at 1 Corinthians 14:15 concerning singing appears to indicate that it was a regular feature of Christian worship. In recording his inspired vision, John tells of various heavenly creatures singing to God and Christ.—(Re 5:8-10 14:3; 15:2-4) (Music, January 1, 1988, page 453, the underlined and boldface are mine).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003137

 

[Fred]

The High Priest serves Jehovah together with the other priests. Jesus serves Jehovah in heaven and his anointed brothers with him.

And Jesus is served in heaven because He has his priests (Revelation 20:6).

Invocation worship and prayer

You are confused. I never asserted that. The Greek word "charis" was referred to here: https://forums.carm.org/threads/invocation-worship-and-prayer.6643/page-2#post-538108 So why is Paul saying Jesus has a God? Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may...

forums.carm.org

 

[Lilel01]

Everyone who reads the book of Revelation knows that the visions of heaven do not show Jesus as the Most High, nor as the Majesty in heaven. Jesus is represented as a Lamb and Jehovah God is represented sitting on the throne. No one in heaven is Trinitarian. On earth those who worship the God of Jesus, the God of heaven and the entire Universe, are not trinitarian either.

We, Jehovah's Witnesses do not ignore the Father of Jesus, his God and Father. We know that is what Jesus taught that his followers would do.

John 4:21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

There are persons who are not very humble and who are not the type of people who allow themselves to be taught ... Those will never accept the truth; Jehovah does not want such individuals among his people.

 

[johnny guitar]

And just to clarify...

Do you believe this statement is TRUE or FALSE?

The child who grew up to be the man Christ Jesus was God with us.

I say TRUE.

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Matthew 1:23... Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Yes, the child is God with us, according to His Divinity as The Son of God, of course.

 

[jamesh]

Everyone who reads the book of Revelation knows that the visions of heaven do not show Jesus as the Most High, nor as the Majesty in heaven. Jesus is represented as a Lamb and Jehovah God is represented sitting on the throne. No one in heaven is Trinitarian. On earth those who worship the God of Jesus, the God of heaven and the entire Universe, are not trinitarian either.

We, Jehovah's Witnesses do not ignore the Father of Jesus, his God and Father. We know that is what Jesus taught that his followers would do.

John 4:21 Jesus said to her: “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

There are persons who are not very humble and who are not the type of people who allow themselves to be taught ... Those will never accept the truth; Jehovah does not want such individuals among his people.

First of all Jesus Himself said the Father cannot be seen as well as other verse that say so. John 1:18, John 5:37, John 6:46 and 1 Timothy 6:46. Secondly, God is spirit or a spiritual being according to John 4:24. Thirdly, God the Father has no separate manifestation from the Son. The Son is the only manifestation and revelation of the Father. What is known of the Father is revealed through the Son. This means to see the Son is to see the "essence" of the Father.

This is what Jesus meant and explained to His disciples at John 14:4-12. At vs9 specifically Jesus says, "Have I been so long with you, and you have not come to know Me, Phillip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say show us the Father?" Jesus is "NOT" saying He is God the Father like the Oneness Pentecostals teach, Jesus is the Son of God.

Getting back to what you said about the Father sitting on the throne. I'm referencing Revelation 4:8-11, also notice verse 1 of chapter 5. "And I saw IN THE RIGHT HAND of Him who sat on the throne a book written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals." Who's right hand is this Lilel01? The Father's or the Son's? Who's the one sitting on the throne that John the Apostle "SAW?"

IN GOD THE SON,
james

 

[Kampioen]

That is a big difference between Trinitarians (and Unitarians) and myself.

Trinitarians (and Unitarians) believe the man Christ Jesus is NOT God.

Whereas I believe the man Christ Jesus IS God with us.

1 Timothy 2:5... For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Matthew 1:23... Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

What do the rest of you believe...

Jesus The MAN is NOT God. TRUE or FALSE?

Jesus is a man none other than God.

Jesus is a juxtaposition of two natures ie the divine person the Word under the subjective immersive influence of the non-omniscient personless human nature. That is the hypostatic union.

The idea that Jesus the man is not God would imply a non-God died on the cross. or both?

But for YahChristian: Do you believe a man none other than God died on the cross? Is He one nature? Two nature's?