Jesus was "made Lord" (Acts 2:36)

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cjab

Well-known member
Fred said:
'Ask me' is in reference to Jesus.
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The preceding verse defines the form of address: prayer to the Father "in my name" is so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

So if you use the wrong form of address, the Father isn't glorified. That's your whole issue: you're not glorifying the Father. If you don't glorify the Father, then Christ won't glorify you (Matt 7:21).

Trinitarians don't grasp the imperative to glorify the Father.
 
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johnny guitar

Well-known member
cjab said:
John 14
14:14 is completely irrelevant. Just because Jesus is at the right hand of God doesn't mean to say he is the proper recipient of prayer in place of the Father.
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Jesus has received prayers from all believers from Pentecost until now and still does.
 
J

johnny guitar

Well-known member
cjab said:
The preceding verse defines the form of address: prayer to the Father "in my name" is so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

So if you use the wrong form of address, the Father isn't glorified. That's your whole issue: you're not glorifying the Father. If you don't glorify the Father, then Christ won't glorify you (Matt 7:21).

Trinitarians don't grasp the imperative to glorify the Father.
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It is ONLY as The Son is honored, worshipped and glorified that The Father is.
 
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johnny guitar

Well-known member
cjab said:
The Father is de jure God, the Son de facto God as appointed by the Father in his place to rule the world, and gather all things together under Christ. Yet it isn't that the Father has abdicated his position, which is what you are inferring. The Father is still in full control and works through Christ, as it always was before the incarnation. Christ is thus subordinate to the Father. This is why prayer is to the Father, in Christ's name, because the Father is the head of Christ (1 Cor 11:3).

Trinitarians communize the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, removing all hierarchy, and all distinctions, such that there is no distinction. This is meaningless. On this basis why not pray to the Holy Spirit? If you don't advocate it, you're a hypocrite.
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Jesus Christ is "appointed" de facto God???
Where does this asinine assertion arise from???Certainly, NOT The Bible.
 
C

cjab

Well-known member
johnny guitar said:
Jesus Christ is "appointed" de facto God???
Where does this asinine assertion arise from???Certainly, NOT The Bible.
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Mat 28:18 "Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

Trinitarians cannot account for this verse, because it is meaningless for them.
 
C

cjab

Well-known member
johnny guitar said:
It is ONLY as The Son is honored, worshipped and glorified that The Father is.
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That is not actually true, as Jesus himself conceded in Matt 7:21 etc. Idolatry of the flesh of Christ (his temple) is an ever present danger for all Christians, and especially Trinitarians.

Due reverence must be given to the Father by keeping to the prescribed forms set out by Jesus.
 
C

cjab

Well-known member
Fred said:
What do you think of the assertion that Jesus is never prayed to (post 110)?

John 17:3 does not disprove Jesus is God

False, but you do create your own Only applies to both the Father and the Son. This has happened elsewhere (1 Kings 8:39; John 2:24-25; Rev. 2:23)
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I think Jesus is prayed to, but in the correct form. It must be prayer to the Father in Jesus name.

This is because Jesus doesn't replace the Father in biblical theology, which he does, effectively, in Trinitarianism, which is wrong.

Having "begotten" the Son "before all ages" the Father becomes de facto, if not de jure, redundant in Trinitarianism, because Jesus is now "fully God." It's not the way it works. That is the way pagan religion works. Ba'al who is God the Son in paganism supplants El, his father, who fades away. El is the actual God of Adam and Eve, and the God in the bible. Ba'alism effects a complete break with El, and becomes a "detestable god" formed from human conception.

In the bible Jesus is crystal clear that he doesn't replace the Father, but acts in conjunction with the Father, and by the Father's power.

So all prayer must be to the Father, for he is the origin of Jesus' power and authority. Mat 28:18
 
Y

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Fred said:
Thus proving the Lord Jesus is God (1 Kings 8:38-39).
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1 Kings 8:39... Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men;)

TRINITARIANS, two questions...

1) How many centers of self-consciousness are there in God?

2) Which of those centers of self-consciousness does “thou only knowest” above refer to?
 
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