Jewish Perspective on the Ten Commandments

[tdidymas]

I'd like to get the majority Jewish perspective on the 10 commandments, in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5.

1. What do the Jews call those two passages?
2. How are those 10 statements listed?

 

[Open Heart]

I'd like to get the majority Jewish perspective on the 10 commandments, in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5.

1. What do the Jews call those two passages?
2. How are those 10 statements listed?

The ten commandments (or ten statements or ten words) are simply part of the larger body of 613 laws that God gave to Moses for Israel. "Speak to the Children of Israel saying..."

Jews do organize the verses differently than Christains: we organize them as follows:
First Commandment (Exodus 20:2)
I am the Lord Your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Second Commandment (Exodus 20:3-6)
You shall have no other gods beside Me. You shall not make for yourself any graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them, nor serve them, for I, the Lord Your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

Third Commandment (Exodus 20:7)
You shall not take the name of the Lord Your God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that takes His name in vain.

Fourth Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)
Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath unto the Lord Your God, in it you shall not do any manner of work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your man-servant, nor your maid-servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day. Wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.

Fifth Commandment (Exodus 20:12)
Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord God gives you.

Sixth Commandment (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not murder.

Seventh Commandment (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not commit adultery.

Eighth Commandment (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not steal.

Ninth Commandment (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Tenth Commandment (Exodus 20:14)
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house, nor his wife, his man-servant, his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.

 

[tdidymas]

The ten commandments (or ten statements or ten words) are simply part of the larger body of 613 laws that God gave to Moses for Israel. "Speak to the Children of Israel saying..."

Jews do organize the verses differently than Christains: we organize them as follows:
First Commandment (Exodus 20:2)
I am the Lord Your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Second Commandment (Exodus 20:3-6)
You shall have no other gods beside Me. You shall not make for yourself any graven image, nor any manner of likeness, of any thing that is heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them, nor serve them, for I, the Lord Your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

Third Commandment (Exodus 20:7)
You shall not take the name of the Lord Your God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that takes His name in vain.

Fourth Commandment (Exodus 20:8-11)
Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a Sabbath unto the Lord Your God, in it you shall not do any manner of work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your man-servant, nor your maid-servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested on the seventh day. Wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and made it holy.

Fifth Commandment (Exodus 20:12)
Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord God gives you.

Sixth Commandment (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not murder.

Seventh Commandment (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not commit adultery.

Eighth Commandment (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not steal.

Ninth Commandment (Exodus 20:13)
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

Tenth Commandment (Exodus 20:14)
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house, nor his wife, his man-servant, his maid-servant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.

I realize that the Hebrew in the Masoretic is actually "ten words." But I'm trying to get a feel for what Jews actually call it:

1. Are you saying that the (English speaking) Jews typically and historically call it "The Ten Commandments" (this specific title, as opposed to "ten words" or "ten statements")?

2. This question also leads to other languages, do Jews say "ten commandments" equivalently in all languages? As opposed to "ten words of the covenant" or "ten statements of the covenant"? I'm trying to get a feel for Jews in general in all nations strictly following the Talmud list, and how they refer to it.

3. I'm also trying to distinguish between statements and commandments. It looks to me like there is one "preamble" statement (i.e. the "First Commandment" in your list), which is said that ancient covenant documents have. If so, then there are 9 actual commandments in the strict sense of the term. Would you agree with this, that the first statement is a "preamble" to the covenant document?

I do understand also that the first statement implies a commandment. "I am the Lord your God..." therefore you ought to be so grateful that you exist and are free from slavery, that you should "love the Lord your God with all your heart..." which is said by others to be the "first and foremost commandment." Is this why the "First Commandment" in your list is called the first "commandment" (as opposed to a "statement")?

 

[Open Heart]

I realize that the Hebrew in the Masoretic is actually "ten words." But I'm trying to get a feel for what Jews actually call it:

1. Are you saying that the (English speaking) Jews typically and historically call it "The Ten Commandments" (this specific title, as opposed to "ten words" or "ten statements")?

2. This question also leads to other languages, do Jews say "ten commandments" equivalently in all languages? As opposed to "ten words of the covenant" or "ten statements of the covenant"? I'm trying to get a feel for Jews in general in all nations strictly following the Talmud list, and how they refer to it.

3. I'm also trying to distinguish between statements and commandments. It looks to me like there is one "preamble" statement (i.e. the "First Commandment" in your list), which is said that ancient covenant documents have. If so, then there are 9 actual commandments in the strict sense of the term. Would you agree with this, that the first statement is a "preamble" to the covenant document?

I do understand also that the first statement implies a commandment. "I am the Lord your God..." therefore you ought to be so grateful that you exist and are free from slavery, that you should "love the Lord your God with all your heart..." which is said by others to be the "first and foremost commandment." Is this why the "First Commandment" in your list is called the first "commandment" (as opposed to a "statement")?

All the Jews I hang with refer to it as the 10 commandments, though at times as the ten words or ten statements (much less often). What Jews did a thousand years ago, I don't know. What Jews do outside the US, I don't know. But I would say the odds are, basically, similarly.

As to the one statement which is more like an overarching thesis statement of the passage, I have often noted that it doesn't contain an explicit commandment.

I think dividing it into 10 is just a helpful tradition. As to what we are and aren't supposed to do, I think the texts speak for themselves.

 

[tdidymas]

All the Jews I hang with refer to it as the 10 commandments, though at times as the ten words or ten statements (much less often). What Jews did a thousand years ago, I don't know. What Jews do outside the US, I don't know. But I would say the odds are, basically, similarly.

As to the one statement which is more like an overarching thesis statement of the passage, I have often noted that it doesn't contain an explicit commandment.

I think dividing it into 10 is just a helpful tradition. As to what we are and aren't supposed to do, I think the texts speak for themselves.

I agree on the text speaking for itself. My issue doesn't concern the content, but rather "metadata." There are 3 places that Moses refers to this text as "the ten words," implying the ten statements of the covenant. I'm just trying to get to the root of the tradition of calling it "ten commandments." If you know of any links I could access on this subject, I would appreciate it.

 

[Jewjitzu]

I agree on the text speaking for itself. My issue doesn't concern the content, but rather "metadata." There are 3 places that Moses refers to this text as "the ten words," implying the ten statements of the covenant. I'm just trying to get to the root of the tradition of calling it "ten commandments." If you know of any links I could access on this subject, I would appreciate it.

The opening, Exodus 20:1, in Hebrew says these words, sayings, hadebarim.

I think Christians starting the notion of thinking of just 10 commandments.

 

[tdidymas]

The opening, Exodus 20:1, in Hebrew says these words, sayings, hadebarim.

I think Christians starting the notion of thinking of just 10 commandments.

Ok, but I'm asking what Jews think. Moses called it "ten words." Do Jews call it "10 words" also?

 

[Jewjitzu]

Ok, but I'm asking what Jews think. Moses called it "ten words." Do Jews call it "10 words" also?

From an Orthodox perspective, it's the ten sayings, statements.

There are more than 10 commandments in the Torah.

 

[Open Heart]

Ok, but I'm asking what Jews think. Moses called it "ten words." Do Jews call it "10 words" also?

yes

 

[Open Heart]

They have never keep the 10 commandments and never will. By breaking them, they dishonor God. They ignore this too.

There are 613 commandments, and plenty of Jews keep them.

 

[Open Heart]

Yeah. Right.... and Jehovah has always been so very happy with your people. I mean he was just kidding when you lost the kingdom to all those other nations you claim are inferior.

You are just dripping with hate. I don't see any reason to continue trying to have a discussion with you.

 

[Jewjitzu]

You don't like the harsh realty that stares back at you from your Bible. You're only focusing on a few little areas to feel better about yourself.

Kinda like you hate the harsh reality of Jesus', lack of wisdom, knowledge, breaking vows, donating temple funds for his own sacrifices, dying defiled as a result of contact with the dead, etc.?

I pray you abandon such things. See yourself for what you are. Guilty like the rest of the world. Equally guilty. What the law says. Its says to those UNDER THE LAW..... That all mouths might be stopped and the ALL world become guilty before God.....

And yet the righteous fall 7 times, and get up.

The law you claim to love it there to condemn you. You have only one hope. Embrace Abraham's heir. Jesus Christ and His offering for you.

Actually, Jesus can't be Abraham's heir when adoption was ruled out with Eliezer his servant.

Also, the actual physical heir comes from the male loins and male seed of Abraham and David.

You've yet to explain where the sperm containing the Y chromosome came from that created Jesus. It wasn't from Mary.

 

[Jewjitzu]

There is so much to "unwrap there". Dead body? I suppose your decomposing body will result in your rejection as well?

He was defiled at the Praetorium before Passover, and over the course of his lifetime dealing with the dead. That required purification for sin, Numbers 19.

Yes they do. They get up to witness to commonality of sin among all human beings. After all, they keep falling themselves.

Honestly, I don't know what your issue is. I've never said I was sinless. Your tantrums serve no purpose.

Why are you resisting? That isn't your "story" at all. You want someone to follow you.

I'm not resisting anything.

Is the heir in Abraham's seed or Rachal's seed? The fact is, it is both. The seed of the women and the seed of the male.

Genesis 3:15 is merely a reference to future generations, and your reference to Rachel proves the seed of the woman is reference to many, not just one.

In the case of Abraham and David, it's clear their children come physically from their loins and seed, their involvement. Mary can't accomplish that on her own.

Like the stars in the heavens...

Where did Jesus get the sperm with his Y chromosome from? Why do you avert this question, py?

Not true. The man isn't without the women. She has her seed as well.

Only the male can make a male. That's why tribal lineage is based on that.

You never answered about Isaac being born to women with no seed.....

They're born from male sperm, the Y chromosome. The last time I checked, woman can't do that.

Sarah was barren and well past the age of conceiving.

And yet she gave birth physically, normally, from relations with Abraham.

Where did Jesus get his Y chromosome from?

 

[Jewjitzu]

You're missing the point. You're body is going to die. Will you become "unclean" as a result?

A dead body is unclean, even your own. That's probably why Jesus told the woman not to touch her after his supposed resurrection.

You're exaggerating. I'm not having tantrums.

Sure you are. It's documented for all to see.

You want others to follow you. You have me personally to take hold of your hem. Obviously, you have an exaggerated opinion/value of yourself. You can claim you're not sinless.... but on the other hand, you expect others to bow to you.

I'm just quoting what Zechariah 8:23 says. I never said I've committed no sins. I've never said for anyone to bow to me, so your false words are noted.

Which is it

See above.

Seriously? The male seed has to have something to attach to. It takes two seeds.

Which parent decides the sex of the child?

God Himself use the word "seed" in direct reference to Eve. You even quoted the verse and didn't even notice it.

Yes, and seed here is a reference to descendants.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed;

See??? HER SEED....

Yes, and as you quoted, Rachel had seed too.

You shouldn't believe everything your Rabbit teaches you young man.

Sorry, I don't follow a Rabbit. I've quoted scriptures which you can't seem to handle.

You'll find that the people you trust in this life often lie to you. Take the Torah at what it says.

I do. It says from the male loins and male seed of Abraham and David. None of the women you've noted can fulfill this.

In fact Isaiah 12:1 proves this point.

Isaiah 11:1 Hebrew Text Analysis

The stem, branch, root, and fruit, are all male, not feminine. A key point is that if the root, whose Hebrew root comes the word for root or chain, is broken, then that person cannot be Messiah. That root, chain, is broken with a virgin birth. Ponder that.

Only a male deposits the Y chromosome. Where did Jesus get his? Don't follow what the RCC or ECFs teach on this.

 

[Jewjitzu]

You told me to take a hold of your hem? What does that mean but to bow to you?

No, it means what Zechariah 8:23 said. Don't add words that I didn't say. It shows your dishonesty and an inferiority complex with you.

No. I is a singular reference. It is a reference to a singular female seed.

No, it's a reference to all future seed, as the seed of the woman is referenced elsewhere in Tanakh, ie, with Rachel as you've proven.

Yes. To her singular seed.

Descendants. In Eve's, the context is both Cain and Abel, Seth, etc.

The focus is on the branch. A singular branch.

And that branch is male, from a male root, a male seed, which cannot be Mary.

No. The seed of the women applies. You're adding your spin. Male to male seed doesn't create anything no matter how hard some try. Even through the line of Jesse, there comes female seed. After all Jessie can't do it himself......

Nope. Isaiah 12:1 proves Mary is of no importance. She can't deposit the Y chromosome.

A virgin birth breaks the chain and disqualifies Jesus. It also makes him a mamzer, disqualifying him from entering Israel,

No one born of a forbidden union may enter the assembly of the LORD. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD.

Why are you being such a horrible male chauvinist?

Does Mary have Y chromosomes to determine the sex of the child? No.

She can't pass on the throne. Only a male can, as proven.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

You posted the verse above and then told me to take hold of your hem.

Yes.

How do I take hold of your hem? I have to bow to you to take hold of your hem. You applied Zec 8:23 to yourself and asked me to bow to you.

If you want to bow, that's your addiction.

That is what happened. You still want that to happen. It is position of submission that you want me to take toward you. ONLY YOU would try to deny that fact. You're living in a fantasy world.

Genesis 27:29
May nations serve you and peoples bow down to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed.”

Not my words...

You said it was a male seed. Which is it? You're all over the place. You can't that false narrative straight can you? You're not alone. You're father that sought to murder Jesus Christ couldn't either.

No, it is the male seed that creates a male. It's biology.

Both the Greek and Hebrew sources clearly reference a singular source. Your own Rabbis even teach that it is Messiah.

Genesis 3:15? Please show me.

You just hate it is Jesus Christ because he is so much better than you are. You expect someone to come down and KILL all your enemies. You don't realize that you're just as bad or worse than all those you hate.

Who deposited his Y chromosome? Why evade this?

Keep telling yourself that. One minute you say it is a male seed. The next minute you say it is female seed. You're all over the place. So much for all that work you've supposedly done. Where is your Rabbi when you need him?

I'm doing fine. So does Mary have a male root, branch, stem. seed, loins? Is she a hermaphrodite?

David was born of women. Solomon was born of a women. All men come from seeds of women. You're such a male chauvinist. You love suppressing the rightful role of women in Eternity.

And the men determined kingship. Notice that queens of Israel is not discussed. They don't pass the throne.

You're done here.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Funny. You forgot Deborah.

No, I didn't. She has nothing to do with the Davidic lineage.

Even Mary's lineage isn't discussed in the NT. All we have to go by for Jesus are two conflicting genealogies.

Who donated the sperm and Y chromosome to make Jesus, py? Why are you running away from this? Do you understand biology?

Jehovah never wanted you to have a king. You forget the story of Saul.

No, you forgot the promises God made to Abraham.

Genesis 17:6, 35:11.

I suggest you study these things in a little more depth.

He was destined to fail from the beginning. Even Solomon was ruled by his wives..... Just more bluster.

Read Psalm 89.

You're a male chauvinist. You love burying the rightful role of women in society and Eternity.

Male chauvinism has nothing to do with. Tribal lineage and Kingship passes through the males, as well as priesthood.

 

[Jewjitzu]

One is from the lineage of Mary and the other is from Joseph.

Both say Joseph. And they conflict with 1 Chronicles 1-3.

I've already meet the promise seed. Jesus Christ. Even your Rabbis teach there is a promised seed coming that will fulfill the Abrahamic covenant. You need to study these things in a little more depth.

They teach a physical seed from David's loins. Jesus had no physical father. He's a mamzer.

The male is not without the women. There are two seeds that combine.

Funny, Eve came from Adam, and males determine the sex of children.

Isaiah 12:1 blows you away... rotfl

 

[Jewjitzu]

Which conflicts with Kings and etc. The issue is with your MT tradition. Not with the NT lineages given. Your "people" rejected God over and over again and failed to maintain the information properly.

Actually, as I've clear noted with scriptures, Zechariah 12:12-13, Jeremiah 33:17-26, the Davidic and Levitical lines exist, as well as the descendants of Jacob.

It's all in the scriptures. Read em an weep.

Eve was part of Adam..... You're trying to disconnect the sexes.

Right. So, she was dependent on Adam. And males determine the final sex of the baby. It's biology.

They're connected.

Who came first?

 

[Jewjitzu]

Who came before you? You had a mother didn't you? I bet she exercised authority over you didn't she.... or are one of those who should have been killed according to your own law?

Rabbit trail....

Adam came first. Men determine the gender of a child.

Jesus was formed a male by sperm with a Y chromosome, would have inherited sin from either his mom or father based on the idea of original sin.

You're done here.