John 1:1 can read....God was with God

Lando said:
That is a statement answering the false idea that there was three person in heaven as the Trinity God is supposed to be, and Rev. Davis says from GEN 1:26, WE ARE NOT MADE IN THE IMAGE OF A THREE PERSON god!~ But as one person, as Jesus is.
Getting bad when I have to explain what someone is destroying your position on.
Of course it is illogical, you are following the ancient triads of Gentile paganism, that surrounded Israel and which she never believed, and never held and Jesus didn't either.
Click to expand...
And Rev. Davis is? He did not appear in a google search.
 
Lando said:
That is a statement answering the false idea that there was three person in heaven as the Trinity God is supposed to be, and Rev. Davis says from GEN 1:26, WE ARE NOT MADE IN THE IMAGE OF A THREE PERSON god!~ But as one person, as Jesus is.
Getting bad when I have to explain what someone is destroying your position on.
Of course it is illogical, you are following the ancient triads of Gentile paganism, that surrounded Israel and which she never believed, and never held and Jesus didn't either.
Click to expand...
Man you are using the Copycat Thesis. I already posted the book that refutes that. Also, we historians today see the copycat thesis as poor logic, rotten history just plain rubbish.

Tektonics.org Bible apologetics and education

Answering Bible contradictions, misunderstandings, and misinterpretations
www.tektonics.org
 
Lando said:
I could really care less what Tertullian a non Christian, a Trinitarian who was in a minor heresy in his day, he could explain it with volumes like Calvin and I wouldn believe all he wrote.
I see you avoid dealing with AGAINST PRAXEAS III, where he says the majority of believers held to the one and only trie God and believed he held to two and three gods.
Tell me, how did we become the amjority?
Do you know that the Bishops of Rome up to 222 a.d. were MONARCHIANS?
You seem to want to avoid looking down this road.
Origen as well, he said "the great multitude of believers", didn't believe his logos Christology!
They held "Jesus Christ and knowing only Christ after the flesh" they were attached to the Son of God, His Christ.

I've read Tertullian's meanderings and he wasn't a Pastor, was converted late in life, didn't know much about the Bible and was in NO POSITION OF POWER, but CALLISTUS WAS A Monarchian, like Ignatius was in Antioch and Noetus in Smyrna and Sabellius in Africa, before he came to Rome.
Click to expand...
I all ready dealt with AGAINST PRAXEAS many times already.
 
Learner also said:
I all ready dealt with AGAINST PRAXEAS many times already.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm sure , just like you are dealing with it with me. RUNNING FROM TRUTH, THAT SHOWS YOU ARE FROM A MINORITY CULT.
Save, I have already posted several other proofs and one of your Catholic Cardinals, who recognized that the majority of early believers were MONARCHIANS.
You can't find your trinity religious ideas in scriptures and history shows you are frauds.
 
Learner also said:
And Rev. Davis is? He did not appear in a google search.
Click to expand...
He is right up there as you hold the false Catholic Priests, Protestant's their fellow.
Oneness Apostolic WILLIAM or BILL DAVIS
He has debated Trinitarians, spoken at Trinitarian and secular Universities, pastored, been Conference Speaker (STEADFAST 2004)
But doesn't matter, you are not talking to him (he may even be dead, I don't know everyone's lives).
I'm the one that exposed the Trinitarian history and that your church had to formulate and develop and reformulate over 300 years to conjure up the Trinity.
You have closer ties to Mithraism, than you do Christianity.
 
Learner also said:
Philippians 4:3
For this I make a special request to my friend who has served with me so faithfully: Help these women. They worked hard with me in telling people the Good News, together with Clement and others who worked with me. Their names are written in the book of life.

The Apostolic Fathers
This set of early Christian writings, referred to as "The Apostolic Fathers," were written by the first generation of Christian leadership after the apostles, thus the term "fathers." Some of these documents, written in the end of the first century and the beginning of the second century, were considered by second and third century fathers to be sacred and were quoted as inspired text. The early church took these writings very seriously as early witnesses of the faith.

There were two:

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Pope St. Clement I

Lengthy article on Clement I, also called Clemens Romanus, the fourth pope and the first of the Apostolic Fathers
www.newadvent.org www.newadvent.org

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Clement of Alexandria

Fairly lengthy article on his life and writings
www.newadvent.org www.newadvent.org
Click to expand...
Read 1st Clement, doesnt say a word about Trinity, triunity, three persons, persons in a godhead, god the son, eternal son, God, the eternal son, first person, second person, thrid person, .
cATHOLICS LIKE TO CLAIM WHAT IS NOT THEIRS AND WASNT EVEN CLOSE TO THE DOCTRINE IN THE FIRST 2 CENTURIES.
Someone can write a book and say, he was one of ours, when in fact he wasnt even close. You have a full blown tritheist doctrine of three god, not one God and certainly not JESUS AS THE SUPRME GOD.
 
Lando said:
The God of the Bible was Jesus as that God Ot Test.name yet revealed, NT, Name revealed in the Son of God, getting the name from his Father, as he came in the Father's name.
Muslims believe in a false god, called allah a stone statue in the past, that Muhammad elevated and killed to force people to accept after being at the KABAA for centuries, Mormons hold at least 3 main god, similar to Trinitarians, but they are bold enough to say they are three gods, and they believe all men can become a god.
Oneness/MONARCHIANS never held that, don't and will not.
Jesus is the Supreme God, not a junior god of the Trinitarians, Unitarians, Arians, Socinians.
wHICH ARE YOU MIK?
Click to expand...
More proof. Poor fellow. Rejecting the God of the Bible. Muslims and mormons do the same.
 
Mik said:
More proof. Poor fellow. Rejecting the God of the Bible. Muslims and mormons do the same.
Click to expand...
kinda hard to carry on a conversation when you are so scared as to not answer direct questions.
What do you hold 3 god? of Catholicism?
Because the Bible only knows one God, and He is Jesus as LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, and seen in Rev. 22:1,3-4 as GOD and the Lamb.
 
Learner also said:
Man you are using the Copycat Thesis. I already posted the book that refutes that. Also, we historians today see the copycat thesis as poor logic, rotten history just plain rubbish.

Tektonics.org Bible apologetics and education

Answering Bible contradictions, misunderstandings, and misinterpretations
www.tektonics.org
Click to expand...
Because you post something, doesnt mean I believe a word about it.
You have a thre god idea, you know that you people cannot even get your doctrines right from one century to the next.
How many hypostasis is there? 1 ? 3 ?
How come JESUS LEFT US SO TOTALLY DEVOID OF REAL TRUTH, HE DIDNT TELL THE APOSTLES AND DISCILES OF A trinity, AND THAT IT TOOK YOU PEOPLE ALMOST 200 YRS TO DICIPHER THE BOOKS, LIKE JOSEPH SMITH DID AND CONJURE UP A TOTALLY DEVOID OF TRUTH DOCTRINE?
Cutting or pasting volumes or others books, shows me you cannot deal with it yourself. Maybe send them people over and you read the Bible,and history more.
When you do, see how many your church murdered along the way, read Foxes Book of Martyrs and Martyrs Mirror
How about the Huegenots, the Muncerians, Anabaptists, Abigensians, Lollard's, Waldensians and the list is long.
Those of Monarchian belief, Unitarians, Arian, Socinian, Jews, and untold un-believers in any of such.
I am not using any copycat thesis, I showed you direct quotes, and you flee and run from them and pretend you answered what I have posted.

ANSWER PLAINLY AND IN UNDER SAY 200 WORDS WRITTEN BY YOU AND NOT SOME teknek knight!
Kinda hard carrying on conversation with someone thatsay I answered that, or I spoke on that already, when you said nothing to me.
Never replied to Tertullian saying he was a minority in belief person, that held a erroneous , nonbiblical doctrine.
Now you are Catholic, follow traditions of men and not the Bible, so I understand, that you are firing a empty gun.
 
Learner also said:
Throughout Adversus Praxeas, he speaks as a representative of a "we." For example Tertullian says, "we, however, as we indeed always have done ... believe that there is only one God."[1] Or again, pressing Praxeas to prove his points from Scripture like "we" do, Tertullian demands "You ought to prove plainly, however, your points as we ourselves prove that He made His Word a Son to Himself."[2] This "we" refers to the orthodox belief as handed down, as Tertullian says, "from the beginning."[3]

As far as terminology is concerned, Tertullian speaks of a divine economy (oikonomia) within the Trinity. That is, it is proper to speak of the divine rule of God, or monarchy of God (monarcia), as fundamentally unified, and yet diverse in respect to each persons' function in our redemption. Thus, God the Father has a will encompassing all of Creation and Redemption, God the Son accomplished that will, and God the Holy Spirit applies the work of the Son according to the will of the Father to believers. There is a consequent unity of purpose, yet diversity in its operation. On this point, for example, Tertullian exposits John 10:34-38,[4] where Christ says that He is in the Father, and the Father is in Him,

"...it must therefore be by the works that the Father is in the Son, and the Son in the Father; and so it is by the works that we understand that the Father is one with the Son."[5]

This point offers a great amount of clarity by preventing the confusion of the Father as the Son (and vice versa). It also maintains the distinctiveness of their persons and the unity of their essence, or substance (substantia). Tertullian reiterates the distinctiveness of the Holy Spirit saying, "Thus the connection of the Father in the Son and of the Son in the Paraclete makes three coherent ones [TR - persons], one distinct from the other; these three exist as one essence, not as one person, just as it is said 'I and my Father, we are one," in respect to the unity of substance, not to the singularity of number.[6]

Tertullian, Adversus Praxeas

... believe that there is one only God, but under the following dispensation... that this one only God has also a Son, His Word, who proceeded from Himself, by whom all things were made, and without whom nothing was made.

Tertullian says, "we, however, as we indeed always have done ... believe that there is only one God."

these three exist as one essence

. that this one only God has also a Son,
www.reformation21.org

Tertullian's View of the Trinity

The Trinitarian formulations of the early Church often seem to our postmodern culture as the inevitable brainchild of monastic orders, burlap habits, deserts, and Neoplatonic philosophy. Austere, abstract, and unconnected from everyday life—just like the stereotypical image of a monk.
www.reformation21.org www.reformation21.org
Click to expand...
Tertullian, simply is not stating the truth about a Trinity.
The statement as we however have always done, believe there is one God.
The vast majority of the church did not see it that way.
They believed from the get go, that he was preaching 2 and 3 gods and Tertullian himself tells us so.
So, Tertullian coined the word for your gods, he said TRINITAS OR TRINITY IN OUR ENGLISH, now that was ca 210 a.d.
Tertullian was a very young person as to his knowledge of Christianity, but a very old man.
He was not a Pastor.
Was not anything, but lucky his worked survived and others not so, or were destroyed by the Catholic cult.
Tertullian had no lineage back to the prior century, the 2nd, there was no one speaking of the Trinity, Triad, YES! A Gentile Pagan Platonic doctrine is where most in the 100-200 a.d. believed in.
Most of these were Greek Philosophers , supposedly saved (HIGHLY DOUBTFUL)!!
Some literally held 2 gods Justin being one, Origen later in the 3rd century.
MOST WERE SUBORDINATIONISTS, they held a Vertical View of the godhead as such
FATHER
SON
HOLY SPIRIT
The Son inferior to the father and the holy spirit to the son.
That isnt the view the trinitarians hold today and took a few hundred years to thrash this out by NICAEA AND FINALIZE BY CONSTANTINOPLE.
AS THE HORIZONTAL VIEW
FATHER- SON-HOLY SPIRIT.
So this fact is for certain, you folks are thus the herectics of your original church ideas of the minority religion in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, into the 4th.
THE 1ST CENTURY NEVER HAD ONE PERSON TEACH THE TRINITY, PERIOD.
Jesus would have been a terrible LORD AND SAVIOUR TO HID THAT, the Apostles as well.
Has anyone read IGNATIUS? He says nothing of three beings, persons, goblins or ghouls!
Now, the Catholics tried fooling everyone with lying fraudulent writings and pawning off as his, but they have lied, cheated, stolen, murdered for most of the last 2000 yrs.
LIGHTFOOT AND HARMER AND Holmes count the middle recension as the authentic and the Syriac abridged version a shorter of it.
THE LONGER! A SPURIOUS TEXT.
Read how he speaks and who is his God, the same as what Origen spoke of.
THE GREAT MULTITUDE OF BELIEVERSWHO KNOW NOTHING BUT JESUS CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED... WHO ARE COUNTED BELIEVERS.
This was the Monarchians, the same that Ignatius was said to be by Historian Virginia Corwin, and appears from his own words to be.
But those in total blatant false doctrines of the Catholicism and then as bad a doctrines as the reformers who follow Mother, cannot see the three god folly., see error throughout, but we MONARCHIANS, Apostolics, Apostolians, Oneness, and sometimes called Unitarians, Sabellians, Noetians, Praxeans , Anabaptists, etc, and etc. Have been against both camps, we have even been side by side with others, including some Trinitarians, who were not following either.
 
Lando said:
Yeah, I'm sure , just like you are dealing with it with me. RUNNING FROM TRUTH, THAT SHOWS YOU ARE FROM A MINORITY CULT.
Save, I have already posted several other proofs and one of your Catholic Cardinals, who recognized that the majority of early believers were MONARCHIANS.
You can't find your trinity religious ideas in scriptures and history shows you are frauds.
Click to expand...
go back and read all my posts brother
 
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Lando said:
He is right up there as you hold the false Catholic Priests, Protestant's their fellow.
Oneness Apostolic WILLIAM or BILL DAVIS
He has debated Trinitarians, spoken at Trinitarian and secular Universities, pastored, been Conference Speaker (STEADFAST 2004)
But doesn't matter, you are not talking to him (he may even be dead, I don't know everyone's lives).
I'm the one that exposed the Trinitarian history and that your church had to formulate and develop and reformulate over 300 years to conjure up the Trinity.
You have closer ties to Mithraism, than you do Christianity.
Click to expand...
post links to him
 
The church of God which sojourns at Rome, to the church of God sojourning at Corinth, to them that are called and sanctified by the will of God, through our Lord Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, from Almighty God through Jesus Christ, be multiplied.



and indicates two persons



Chapter 7. An Exhortation to Repentance.
These things, beloved, we write unto you, not merely to admonish you of your duty, but also to remind ourselves. For we are struggling on the same arena, and the same conflict is assigned to both of us. Wherefore let us give up vain and fruitless cares, and approach to the glorious and venerable rule of our holy calling. Let us attend to what is good, pleasing, and acceptable in the sight of Him who formed us. Let us look steadfastly to the blood of Christ, and see how precious that blood is to God which, having been shed for our salvation, has set the grace of repentance before the whole world. Let us turn to every age that has passed, and learn that, from generation to generation, the Lord has granted a place of repentance to all such as would be converted unto Him. Noah preached repentance, and as many as listened to him were saved. Jonah proclaimed destruction to the Ninevites; Jonah iii but they, repenting of their sins, propitiated God by prayer, and obtained salvation, although they were aliens [to the covenant] of God.


To like on a letter points to another person or business



Chapter 8. Continuation Respecting Repentance.
The ministers of the grace of God have, by the Holy Spirit, spoken of repentance; and the Lord of all things has himself declared with an oath regarding it, As I live, says the Lord, I desire not the


Grammar clearly points out two persons.
 
Chapter 10. Continuation of the Above.
Abraham, styled the friend, was found faithful, inasmuch as he rendered obedience to the words of God. He, in the exercise of obedience, went out from his own country, and from his kindred, and from his father's house, in order that, by forsaking a small territory, and a weak family, and an insignificant house, he might inherit the promises of God. For God said to him, Get you out from your country, and from your kindred, and from your father's house, into the land which I shall show you.


Grammar clearly points out two persons.

Chapter 13. An Exhortation to Humility.
Let us therefore, brethren, be of humble mind, laying aside all haughtiness, and pride, and foolishness, and angry feelings; and let us act according to that which is written (for the Holy Spirit says, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, neither let the rich man glory in his riches; but let him that glories glory in the Lord, in diligently seeking Him, and doing judgment and righteousness ), being especially mindful of the words of the Lord Jesus which He spoke teaching us meekness and long-suffering.


Grammar clearly points out three persons



Chapter 16. Christ as an Example of Humility.
For Christ is of those who are humble-minded, and not of those who exalt themselves over His flock. Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Sceptre of the majesty of God, did not come in the pomp of pride or arrogance, although He might have done so, but in a lowly condition, as the Holy Spirit had declared regarding Him. For He says, Lord, who has believed our report, and to whom is the arm of the Lord revealed?


two persons



Chapter 21. Let Us Obey God, and Not the Authors of Sedition.
Take heed, beloved, lest His many kindnesses lead to the condemnation of us all. [For thus it must be] unless we walk worthy of Him, and with one mind do those things which are good and well-pleasing in His sight. For [the Scripture] says in a certain place, The Spirit of the Lord is a candle searching the secret parts of the belly. Proverbs 20:27 Let us reflect how near He is, and that none of the thoughts or reasonings in which we engage are hid from Him. It is right, therefore, that we should not leave the post which His will has assigned us. Let us rather offend those men who are foolish, and inconsiderate, and lifted up, and who glory in the pride of their speech, than [offend] God. Let us reverence the Lord Jesus Christ, whose blood was given for us; let us esteem those who have the rule over us; let us honour the aged among us; let us train up the young men in the fear of God; let us direct our wives to that which is good. Let them exhibit the lovely habit of purity [in all their conduct]; let them show forth the sincere disposition of meekness; let them make manifest the command which they have of their tongue, by their manner of speaking; let them display their love, not by preferring one to another, but by showing equal affection to all that piously fear God.


more than one person





CHURCH FATHERS: Letter to the Corinthians (Clement)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.
www.newadvent.org www.newadvent.org



not enough time to read the full letter since my boss, wife will kick me off soon. I have read and translated many times.
 
Lando said:
Because you post something, doesnt mean I believe a word about it.
You have a thre god idea, you know that you people cannot even get your doctrines right from one century to the next.
How many hypostasis is there? 1 ? 3 ?
How come JESUS LEFT US SO TOTALLY DEVOID OF REAL TRUTH, HE DIDNT TELL THE APOSTLES AND DISCILES OF A trinity, AND THAT IT TOOK YOU PEOPLE ALMOST 200 YRS TO DICIPHER THE BOOKS, LIKE JOSEPH SMITH DID AND CONJURE UP A TOTALLY DEVOID OF TRUTH DOCTRINE?
Cutting or pasting volumes or others books, shows me you cannot deal with it yourself. Maybe send them people over and you read the Bible,and history more.
When you do, see how many your church murdered along the way, read Foxes Book of Martyrs and Martyrs Mirror
How about the Huegenots, the Muncerians, Anabaptists, Abigensians, Lollard's, Waldensians and the list is long.
Those of Monarchian belief, Unitarians, Arian, Socinian, Jews, and untold un-believers in any of such.
I am not using any copycat thesis, I showed you direct quotes, and you flee and run from them and pretend you answered what I have posted.

ANSWER PLAINLY AND IN UNDER SAY 200 WORDS WRITTEN BY YOU AND NOT SOME teknek knight!
Kinda hard carrying on conversation with someone thatsay I answered that, or I spoke on that already, when you said nothing to me.
Never replied to Tertullian saying he was a minority in belief person, that held a erroneous , nonbiblical doctrine.
Now you are Catholic, follow traditions of men and not the Bible, so I understand, that you are firing a empty gun.
Click to expand...
Those who have fair with believing the copy cat thesis are in errors of truth about Jesus, Holy Spirit, Father who are three in one God.

So, if you want to live in falsehood be my guest. Brother.
 
Lando said:
Tertullian, simply is not stating the truth about a Trinity.
The statement as we however have always done, believe there is one God.
The vast majority of the church did not see it that way.
They believed from the get go, that he was preaching 2 and 3 gods and Tertullian himself tells us so.
So, Tertullian coined the word for your gods, he said TRINITAS OR TRINITY IN OUR ENGLISH, now that was ca 210 a.d.
Tertullian was a very young person as to his knowledge of Christianity, but a very old man.
He was not a Pastor.
Was not anything, but lucky his worked survived and others not so, or were destroyed by the Catholic cult.
Tertullian had no lineage back to the prior century, the 2nd, there was no one speaking of the Trinity, Triad, YES! A Gentile Pagan Platonic doctrine is where most in the 100-200 a.d. believed in.
Most of these were Greek Philosophers , supposedly saved (HIGHLY DOUBTFUL)!!
Some literally held 2 gods Justin being one, Origen later in the 3rd century.
MOST WERE SUBORDINATIONISTS, they held a Vertical View of the godhead as such
FATHER
SON
HOLY SPIRIT
The Son inferior to the father and the holy spirit to the son.
That isnt the view the trinitarians hold today and took a few hundred years to thrash this out by NICAEA AND FINALIZE BY CONSTANTINOPLE.
AS THE HORIZONTAL VIEW
FATHER- SON-HOLY SPIRIT.
So this fact is for certain, you folks are thus the herectics of your original church ideas of the minority religion in the 2nd and 3rd centuries, into the 4th.
THE 1ST CENTURY NEVER HAD ONE PERSON TEACH THE TRINITY, PERIOD.
Jesus would have been a terrible LORD AND SAVIOUR TO HID THAT, the Apostles as well.
Has anyone read IGNATIUS? He says nothing of three beings, persons, goblins or ghouls!
Now, the Catholics tried fooling everyone with lying fraudulent writings and pawning off as his, but they have lied, cheated, stolen, murdered for most of the last 2000 yrs.
LIGHTFOOT AND HARMER AND Holmes count the middle recension as the authentic and the Syriac abridged version a shorter of it.
THE LONGER! A SPURIOUS TEXT.
Read how he speaks and who is his God, the same as what Origen spoke of.
THE GREAT MULTITUDE OF BELIEVERSWHO KNOW NOTHING BUT JESUS CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED... WHO ARE COUNTED BELIEVERS.
This was the Monarchians, the same that Ignatius was said to be by Historian Virginia Corwin, and appears from his own words to be.
But those in total blatant false doctrines of the Catholicism and then as bad a doctrines as the reformers who follow Mother, cannot see the three god folly., see error throughout, but we MONARCHIANS, Apostolics, Apostolians, Oneness, and sometimes called Unitarians, Sabellians, Noetians, Praxeans , Anabaptists, etc, and etc. Have been against both camps, we have even been side by side with others, including some Trinitarians, who were not following either.
Click to expand...
You can not be more wrong brother, what planet are you from ? The Didache is first century and it teaches the Trinity in Baptism. smile
 
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