Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Chuckle!!! "Atonement" has ALWAYS BEEN LIMITED. When a person DOESN'T repent under conviction of sin, and cry out in (gifted) FAITH for salvation, they limit the atonement. Simple as that.
John 1:29
- Thread starter Reformedguy
- Start date
At the time you were made alive
So much for your understanding rather.
When one speaks of an unlimited atonement one speaks of the extent not the application of the atonement.
Who did Christ die for?
Christ died for all
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
You understand neither the extent or the atonement itself
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Wrong, verse 14 says they are taken away when He nailed them to the cross. When was that?
So you limit the atonement then. You limit its application. Good to know.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
No kidding, really? Thanks captain obvious.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
That's not when it says. It says when they were nailed to the cross. So we're they nailed to the cross yet remained unforgiven?
Sorry that is what it states
Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Having forgiven us (χαρισαμενος ἡμιν [charisamenos hēmin]). First aorist middle participle of χαριζομαι [charizomai], common verb from χαρις [charis] (favour, grace). Dative of the person common as in 3:13. The act of forgiving is simultaneous with the quickening, though logically antecedent.11 A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), Col 2:13.
Grammatically, this bestowal of divine forgiveness is contemporaneous with the divine vivification (NRSV, “God made you alive … when he forgave”; Dunn 145) “though logically antecedent,” Robertson, Pictures 494, or antecedent to it (as RSV, “having forgiven us all our trespasses”) although χαρισάμενος could be causal (REB, “For he has forgiven”).1
1 Murray J. Harris, Colossians and Philemon (Exegetical Guide to the Greek New Testament; B&H Academic; WORDsearch, 2012), 96.
You were not born forgiven
Do you never read?
Everyone but universalist limits the application of the atonement
We however are speaking of the extent not the application as you have been informed numerous times.
PS You were not born forgiven, but when you believed
Romans 3:21–26 (KJV 1900) — 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Acts 10:43 (KJV 1900) — 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Acts 15:9 (KJV) — 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
There ya go. Limited atonement. "Limits the application". Sounds limited to me. Thats what I read. Congrats
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Polly is back true to form. So in verse 14 when are you sins taken away, being nailed to the cross? When was the cross? LOL
Verse 14 is what made possible the forgiveness of sin
Sin however is remitted upon repentance
Luke 24:47 (KJV) — 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Once again, you were not born forgiven
Ephesians 2:1–3 (KJV 1900) — 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
You are quite unbiblical in your theology
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Sorry, there is no phrase "made possible" in verse 14. Mr sola scriptura feels free to add that in there.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Still limited in some way. Tom has embraced the L in TULIP. He is a work in progress.
You are fabricating again
Limited atonement (also called definite atonement[1] or particular redemption) is a doctrine accepted in some Christian theological traditions. It is particularly associated with the Reformed tradition and is one of the five points of Calvinism. The doctrine states that though the death of Jesus Christ is sufficient to atone for the sins of the whole world,[2] it was the intention of God the Father that the atonement of Christ's death would work itself out in only the elect, thereby leading them without fail to salvation. According to Limited Atonement, Christ died for the sins of the elect alone, and no atonement was provided for the reprobate wikipedia
Atonement, Extent of. Although there are variations as to the basic ways in which this subject can be addressed, the choices boil down to two: the death of Jesus was intended to secure salvation either for a limited number or for everyone. The first view is sometimes called “limited atonement,” because God limited the effect of Christ’s death to a specific number of elect persons, or “particular redemption,” because redemption was for a particular group of people. The second view is sometimes referred to as “unlimited atonement” or “general redemption,” because God did not limit Christ’s redemptive death to the elect but allowed it to be for humankind in general
Walter A. Elwell, Evangelical Dictionary of Theology: Second Edition (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 2001), 114–115.
You are still speaking out of ignorance and improper use of terms.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Yup, you just limit it differently. But it's limited none the less.
You are equivocating
Limited atonement (also called definite atonement[1] or particular redemption) is a doctrine accepted in some Christian theological traditions. It is particularly associated with the Reformed tradition and is one of the five points of Calvinism. The doctrine states that though the death of Jesus Christ is sufficient to atone for the sins of the whole world,[2] it was the intention of God the Father that the atonement of Christ's death would work itself out in only the elect, thereby leading them without fail to salvation. According to Limited Atonement, Christ died for the sins of the elect alone, and no atonement was provided for the reprobate wikipedia
Atonement, Extent of. Although there are variations as to the basic ways in which this subject can be addressed, the choices boil down to two: the death of Jesus was intended to secure salvation either for a limited number or for everyone. The first view is sometimes called “limited atonement,” because God limited the effect of Christ’s death to a specific number of elect persons, or “particular redemption,” because redemption was for a particular group of people. The second view is sometimes referred to as “unlimited atonement” or “general redemption,” because God did not limit Christ’s redemptive death to the elect but allowed it to be for humankind in general
Walter A. Elwell, Evangelical Dictionary of Theology: Second Edition (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 2001), 114–115.
The term unlimited atonement has to do with the extent not the application.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
And your in denial. You believe in a limited atonement.
Still ignoring the evidence, and You are equivocating
Limited atonement (also called definite atonement[1] or particular redemption) is a doctrine accepted in some Christian theological traditions. It is particularly associated with the Reformed tradition and is one of the five points of Calvinism. The doctrine states that though the death of Jesus Christ is sufficient to atone for the sins of the whole world,[2] it was the intention of God the Father that the atonement of Christ's death would work itself out in only the elect, thereby leading them without fail to salvation. According to Limited Atonement, Christ died for the sins of the elect alone, and no atonement was provided for the reprobate wikipedia
Atonement, Extent of. Although there are variations as to the basic ways in which this subject can be addressed, the choices boil down to two: the death of Jesus was intended to secure salvation either for a limited number or for everyone. The first view is sometimes called “limited atonement,” because God limited the effect of Christ’s death to a specific number of elect persons, or “particular redemption,” because redemption was for a particular group of people. The second view is sometimes referred to as “unlimited atonement” or “general redemption,” because God did not limit Christ’s redemptive death to the elect but allowed it to be for humankind in general
Walter A. Elwell, Evangelical Dictionary of Theology: Second Edition (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 2001), 114–115.
The term unlimited atonement has to do with the extent not the application.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Has to do with the atonement period. Hence you are a limited atonement kind of guy.