John 1:3-4 - All things created through the Word except for the Word

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Whatever Greek word YOU have translated as "created" at John 1:3-4. It's YOUR title for YOUR thread.

John 1:3-4 - All things created through the Word except for the Word​


Now please do explain yourself.
There is only one possibility and it's obvious to anyone who knows this text:


γίνομαι [Ionic and Hell. form = γίγνομαι, cp. Lat. gigno; the central mng. ‘tranfer from one state or condition to another’] this multivalent verb depends heavily on context for its signifi cation, which the rich resources of English can express in a variety of ways; some idea of the boundaries is here projected, but their fluidity is to be kept in mind:—1. ‘come into being by birth or natural process’, be born, be produced Mt 21:19; J 8:58; Ro 1:3; 1 Cor 15:37; Gal 4:4.—2. ‘exist through application of will or effort by an entity’, be made, be performed, be done Mt 11:21f; Lk 14:22; J 1:3; Ac 19:26; 1 Cor 9:15; Eph 5:12

Some bibles do use the word create. I don't have a preference for that over "made" or "produced."
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
There is only one possibility and it's obvious to anyone who knows this text:


γίνομαι [Ionic and Hell. form = γίγνομαι, cp. Lat. gigno; the central mng. ‘tranfer from one state or condition to another’] this multivalent verb depends heavily on context for its signifi cation, which the rich resources of English can express in a variety of ways; some idea of the boundaries is here projected, but their fluidity is to be kept in mind:—1. ‘come into being by birth or natural process’, be born, be produced Mt 21:19; J 8:58; Ro 1:3; 1 Cor 15:37; Gal 4:4.—2. ‘exist through application of will or effort by an entity’, be made, be performed, be done Mt 11:21f; Lk 14:22; J 1:3; Ac 19:26; 1 Cor 9:15; Eph 5:12

Some bibles do use the word create. I don't have a preference for that over "made" or "produced."

Now you can return to my original question:

"Created? Is that always how you understand this Greek word?"
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Now you can return to my original question:

"Created? Is that always how you understand this Greek word?"
BDAG puts it at J 1:3 in the section:
a. to come into existence, be made, be created, be manufactured...

It depends what you mean by create. I take "create" in this context to be a synonym for all of the above glosses.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
BDAG puts it at J 1:3 in the section:
a. to come into existence, be made, be created, be manufactured...

It depends what you mean by create. I take "create" in this context to be a synonym for all of the above glosses.

Maybe John meant nothing came to pass apart from the word.

Now what?
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Maybe John meant nothing came to pass apart from the word.

Now what?
The way to decide what came into existence is not to just make something up that suits us. Πάντα is the object of the verb so it's what came into existence.

John explicitly says it is πάντα, or "all (things)".

On what basis do you limit it to events that come to pass?

One thing that might help your interpretation is a example of the use of πάντα that refers to what you intend in the NT, preferably in John's writings if you want it to be convincing. But I don't know of any, do you?
 
Last edited:

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
The way to decide what came into existence is not to just make something up that suits us. Πάντα is the object of the verb so it's what came into existence.

John explicitly says it is πάντα, or "all (things)".

So everything came to pass via the word.


On what basis do you limit it to events that come to pass?

I didn't limit anything. I asked you a question.

One thing that might help your interpretation is a example of the use of πάντα that refers to what you intend in the NT, preferably in John's writings if you want it to be convincing. But I don't know of any, do you?

You don't know of any NT examples were it does not mean absolutely everything which exists?

That's interesting.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
So everything came to pass via the word.




I didn't limit anything. I asked you a question.



You don't know of any NT examples were it does not mean absolutely everything which exists?

That's interesting.
No, I don't know any passages where πάντα is the object of γινομαι and has the sense of things "coming to pass."

But there are examples like Rev 4:11 where God created τα πάντα or gave τα πάντα to the Son at John 3:35.

So I don't think that view has any grammatical, lexical or contextual merit.
 
Top