John 15 Losing eternal life

Manfred

Well-known member
Duh

Lydia was a worshipper of Godbefore her heart was opened

Cornelius prayed always and his alms giving came up as a memorial before God before he knew Christ and was sved

Abraham left his home and was willing to offer his son to God

you gave a problem applying your interpretation
The Duh is what you think about the scriptures I posted. Why did you ignore the scriptures... Because you cannot be bothered to read what others write. All you have is Duh..
It's obvious you cannot respond to scripture.
 

fltom

Well-known member
The Duh is what you think about the scriptures I posted. Why did you ignore the scriptures... Because you cannot be bothered to read what others write. All you have is Duh..
It's obvious you cannot respond to scripture.
You are a funny guy

Your interpretation was refuted

you did not deal with the refutation

Lydia worshipped God before her heart was opened

Nothing is stated about God opening the heart of Abraham or Cornelius

you assumed that

The issue is not righteousness according to law but according to faith



All these were declared Righteous



Able - Hebrews 11:4; 1 John 3:12

Lot - 2 Peter 2:7

Noah - Genesis 6:9; 7:1

Job - Job 1:1; 34:5

Abraham - Galatians 3:6

Lydia - Acts 16:14

Cornelius - Acts 10:22

Zechariah - Luke 1:5-6

Elizabeth - Luke 1:5-6

Joseph Matthew 1:19; Luke 23:50

Simeon Luke 2:25

Enoch Hebrews 11:5
 

Manfred

Well-known member
1 Cor 3:1 - Paul clarifies that while he is speaking to born again Christians, he cannot speak to them as spiritual but as to men of flesh who are spiritual babies.
Your claim is that I am inventing this concept, just concocting it to satisfy my imagination, but if you are willing to read this verse for what it says, the truth I have been promoting is stated here in black and white
I am not referring to 1Cor 3

The discussion is around 1Cor 2 and the inability of the natural man to understand spiritual truth.

That has got nothing to do with the inability of born again spiritual man not being able to understand spiritual truths.

You keep lying to yourself and cannot face the reality of what it says in scripture. You cannot even confirm that it is in 1Cor2. The natural man cannot understand.
God's wisdom of the cross hidden from the wise of the world.

You do think you chose God because of your wisdom don't you!
 

Manfred

Well-known member
You are a funny guy

Your interpretation was refuted

you did not deal with the refutation

Lydia worshipped God before her heart was opened

Nothing is stated about God opening the heart of Abraham or Cornelius

you assumed that

The issue is not righteousness according to law but according to faith



All these were declared Righteous



Able - Hebrews 11:4; 1 John 3:12

Lot - 2 Peter 2:7

Noah - Genesis 6:9; 7:1

Job - Job 1:1; 34:5

Abraham - Galatians 3:6

Lydia - Acts 16:14

Cornelius - Acts 10:22

Zechariah - Luke 1:5-6

Elizabeth - Luke 1:5-6

Joseph Matthew 1:19; Luke 23:50

Simeon Luke 2:25

Enoch Hebrews 11:5
What interpretation was refuted?

Show me where you found exceptions to the scriptures I posted.

Please explain clearly how anyone is exempt from:

Rom 3:10 - 18 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Please explain how (No one is righteous) means not no one, but only some.

How on earth have you refuted Paul and what he wrote here?
All is see is your self-righteousness and pompous attitude. I suppose you also believe you are above these scriptures and that is why you were able to choose to believe. You are better than those who manage not to believe.
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
I am not referring to 1Cor 3

The discussion is around 1Cor 2 and the inability of the natural man to understand spiritual truth.

That has got nothing to do with the inability of born again spiritual man not being able to understand spiritual truths.

You keep lying to yourself and cannot face the reality of what it says in scripture. You cannot even confirm that it is in 1Cor2. The natural man cannot understand.
God's wisdom of the cross hidden from the wise of the world.

You do think you chose God because of your wisdom don't you!
But i am talking about that section of 1 Cor,at a minimum the first 3 chapters. And in Chapter 3, Paul discusses that Christians have an old nature, that is like the unregenerated and that baby Christians can act like unbelievers.
You may not want the broader context, but it is needed to understand what Paul is addressing: the old man and the new man, walking in the Spirit or in the flesh.
And when a man walks in the flesh, he does not understand spiritual truth, as he would when he walks in the Spirit.

When you divert from scripture and spend your words here on personal attacks, it indicates you are walking in the flesh
 

Manfred

Well-known member
But i am talking about that section of 1 Cor,at a minimum the first 3 chapters. And in Chapter 3, Paul discusses that Christians have an old nature, that is like the unregenerated and that baby Christians can act like unbelievers.
You may not want the broader context, but it is needed to understand what Paul is addressing: the old man and the new man, walking in the Spirit or in the flesh.
And when a man walks in the flesh, he does not understand spiritual truth, as he would when he walks in the Spirit.

When you divert from scripture and spend your words here on personal attacks, it indicates you are walking in the flesh
I am not diverting from scripture, and you are running scared it seems:
1Co 2:8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Your diversion from the above:
This does not apply to the natural man, but to baby Christians.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.

Your diversion from the above:
Those who have not received the Spirit who is from God can understand things not freely Given by God.

Co 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

Your diversion from the above:
Human wisdom can impart spiritual truths and through human wisdom spiritual truths can be understood.

1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Your diversion from the above:
The natural person does indeed accept the things of the Spirit of God because otherwise freedom of choice is wrong...

You are exposing what really lies in your heart, and it is here for all to see.
 

fltom

Well-known member
What interpretation was refuted?

Show me where you found exceptions to the scriptures I posted.

Please explain clearly how anyone is exempt from:

Rom 3:10 - 18 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Please explain how (No one is righteous) means not no one, but only some.

How on earth have you refuted Paul and what he wrote here?
All is see is your self-righteousness and pompous attitude. I suppose you also believe you are above these scriptures and that is why you were able to choose to believe. You are better than those who manage not to believe.
Did you not read all who were declared righteous

or the fact Lydia worshipped God before her heart was opened

Your interpretation was refuted


Lydia worshipped God before her heart was opened

Nothing is stated about God opening the heart of Abraham or Cornelius

you assumed that

The issue is not righteousness according to law but according to faith



All these were declared Righteous



Able - Hebrews 11:4; 1 John 3:12

Lot - 2 Peter 2:7

Noah - Genesis 6:9; 7:1

Job - Job 1:1; 34:5

Abraham - Galatians 3:6

Lydia - Acts 16:14

Cornelius - Acts 10:22

Zechariah - Luke 1:5-6

Elizabeth - Luke 1:5-6

Joseph Matthew 1:19; Luke 23:50

Simeon Luke 2:25

Enoch Hebrews 11:5
 

fltom

Well-known member
I am not referring to 1Cor 3

The discussion is around 1Cor 2 and the inability of the natural man to understand spiritual truth.

That has got nothing to do with the inability of born again spiritual man not being able to understand spiritual truths.

You keep lying to yourself and cannot face the reality of what it says in scripture. You cannot even confirm that it is in 1Cor2. The natural man cannot understand.
God's wisdom of the cross hidden from the wise of the world.

You do think you chose God because of your wisdom don't you!
Matthew 13:20–21 (ESV) — 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

Its rather funny how at the same time a couple of Calvinist are denying that man cannot receive the things of God Howie is arguing that very thing even saying they cannot understand that
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Did you not read all who were declared righteous

or the fact Lydia worshipped God before her heart was opened

Your interpretation was refuted


Lydia worshipped God before her heart was opened

Nothing is stated about God opening the heart of Abraham or Cornelius

you assumed that

The issue is not righteousness according to law but according to faith



All these were declared Righteous



Able - Hebrews 11:4; 1 John 3:12

Lot - 2 Peter 2:7

Noah - Genesis 6:9; 7:1

Job - Job 1:1; 34:5

Abraham - Galatians 3:6

Lydia - Acts 16:14

Cornelius - Acts 10:22


Zechariah - Luke 1:5-6

Elizabeth - Luke 1:5-6

Joseph Matthew 1:19; Luke 23:50

Simeon Luke 2:25

Enoch Hebrews 11:5
And still you think your ideas include that they were born righteous.

Deal with scripture and explain how they were all exempt from this:
Rom 3:10 - 18 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Please explain how (No one is righteous) means not no one, but only some.

How on earth have you refuted Paul and what he wrote here?
All is see is your self-righteousness and pompous attitude. I suppose you also believe you are above these scriptures and that is why you were able to choose to believe. You are better than those who manage not to believe.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Matthew 13:20–21 (ESV) — 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
I have already shown you, but you just choose to ignore it, that in in receiving something with joy, it cannot be understood.

You are being purposely deceitful.
Mat 13:18 “Hear then the parable of the sower:
Mat 13:19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.

Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

The scripture (Jesus' words) say "that what was sown into the heart and accepted with joy, was not UNDERSTOOD". And because it was not understood, the evil one comes and snatches it away.
Jesus notes that there is one group only who hears and understands the word. That is the only qualifying factor. Hearing and understanding.

I am not making this up as I go along.
You deny it and will do anything in your power to keep denying it, even if it is right there in scripture.

You are 100% opposed to scripture when you say those who hear and understand the word, and accepts it with joy, has the evil one come and snatch it away.
Stop deceiving others.
Its rather funny how at the same time a couple of Calvinist are denying that man cannot receive the things of God Howie is arguing that very thing even saying they cannot understand that
What is funny, and not funny is that you are so full of yourself, you could not recognize any Spiritual truth, as you constantly deny the work of the Holy Spirit in favor of your fallen self will.
 
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fltom

Well-known member
I have already shown you, but you just choose to ignore it, that in in receiving something with joy, it cannot be understood.

You better try agaqin

For that is an error


You are being purposely deceitful.
Rather you are



Mat 13:18 “Hear then the parable of the sower:
Mat 13:19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path.

Mat 13:23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

The scripture (Jesus' words) say "that what was sown into the heart and accepted with joy, was not UNDERSTOOD". And because it was not understood, the evil one comes and snatches it away.
Jesus notes that there is one group only who hears and understands the word. That is the only qualifying factor. Hearing and understanding.

I am not making this up as I go along.
You deny it and will do anything in your power to keep denying it, even if it is right there in scripture.
Yeah actually you are and confounding hearers

Matthew 13:18–23 (KJV 1900) — 18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

First hearer

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Next hearer

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

next

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Final


Either you read very poorly or you condemn yourself



You are 100% opposed to scripture when you say those who hear and understand the word, and accepts it with joy, has the evil one come and snatch it away.
Stop deceiving others.
You are condemning yourself

you completely confounded what is being stated

Its not the holy spirit that was guiding you here but another spirit
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
I am not diverting from scripture, and you are running scared it seems:
1Co 2:8 None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Your diversion from the above:
This does not apply to the natural man, but to baby Christians.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.

Your diversion from the above:
Those who have not received the Spirit who is from God can understand things not freely Given by God.

Co 2:13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

Your diversion from the above:
Human wisdom can impart spiritual truths and through human wisdom spiritual truths can be understood.

1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

Your diversion from the above:
The natural person does indeed accept the things of the Spirit of God because otherwise freedom of choice is wrong...

You are exposing what really lies in your heart, and it is here for all to see.
I read part of this but since you are claiming that reading from the context is a diversion, I doubt there is much to be gained by talking about this. Once you accept the context, I am interested to talk
 

Manfred

Well-known member
I read part of this but since you are claiming that reading from the context is a diversion, I doubt there is much to be gained by talking about this. Once you accept the context, I am interested to talk
Another cop out! You are diverting from the context an trying to force another context. You are just being deceitful, and all lurkers can deduce that for themselves.

Why can you not admit that the natural man in those passages does not refer to baby Christians!
You cannot, because then your house of cards will come tumbling down, so you prefer to pretend that I said something I never did.

In my previous post which you "chose to ignore through excuses" the context is made clear.
 

fltom

Well-known member
That is merely your biased opinion and totally worthless.

It would have been worth something if you could prove that those who hear and understand do not grow 60 or 100 times.

You have it 100% contrary to scripture that those who hear and understand have the Devil come and snatch it away. The logical conclusion is that no one can hear and understand because it will be snatched away.

You are a deceiver Tom.
Sorry you were shown to have misread the passage

which is why you do not include my words


Matthew 13:18–23 (KJV 1900) — 18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. 19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

First hearer above

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

clearly two different hearers you attempt to make one



Next hearer

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

next

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.


You are clearly in error
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
Another cop out! You are diverting from the context an trying to force another context. You are just being deceitful, and all lurkers can deduce that for themselves.

Why can you not admit that the natural man in those passages does not refer to baby Christians!
You cannot, because then your house of cards will come tumbling down, so you prefer to pretend that I said something I never did.

In my previous post which you "chose to ignore through excuses" the context is made clear.
Again your claim that 1 Cor 3 is out of context for 1 Cor 2, is a mistake. It isn't until paul puts it togther in chapter 3 that we understand the concept being explained.
Iam not copping out, or being deceitful or forcing nything, I am looking at what paul wrote in its own context
 
G

guest1

Guest
Duh

Lydia was a worshipper of Godbefore her heart was opened

Cornelius prayed always and his alms giving came up as a memorial before God before he knew Christ and was sved

Abraham left his home and was willing to offer his son to God

you gave a problem applying your interpretation
Yes how silly of them 😂
 

Manfred

Well-known member
Again your claim that 1 Cor 3 is out of context for 1 Cor 2, is a mistake. It isn't until paul puts it togther in chapter 3 that we understand the concept being explained.
Iam not copping out, or being deceitful or forcing nything, I am looking at what paul wrote in its own context
That was never my claim but only your faulty conclusion.

My claim is that in the Context of 1 Cor Paul talks about the natural man who is not yet regenerated, who is not even a baby Christian.

The fact that you refuse to even acknowledge this and that you are merely trying to discredit me, shows your utter lack of even wanting to consider truth. You have made up your mind that you cannot accept the natural man cannot discern Spiritual truths, and you resort to this sort of tactic.

I for one can see right trough it. I am also certain any unbiased logical thinker reading this would come to the exact same conclusion.
You are running away from God's truth, not my truth.
 

SeventhDay

Well-known member
What about it?
No presentation has been offered which refutes eternal security.
So there is nothing to "address".
Nothing refutes eternal security just as nothing refutes God reconciling all on to himself. If Calvinist embraced the truth of God reconciling all unto himself their doctrine would be improved greatly. However, we not need to label what the Spirit teaches us or form a denomination or establish a religious creed. We need to let God be God and let him speak to us and we speak through God. God bless you. :)
 

Alexander the adequate

Well-known member
That was never my claim but only your faulty conclusion.

My claim is that in the Context of 1 Cor Paul talks about the natural man who is not yet regenerated, who is not even a baby Christian.

The fact that you refuse to even acknowledge this and that you are merely trying to discredit me, shows your utter lack of even wanting to consider truth. You have made up your mind that you cannot accept the natural man cannot discern Spiritual truths, and you resort to this sort of tactic.

I for one can see right trough it. I am also certain any unbiased logical thinker reading this would come to the exact same conclusion.
You are running away from God's truth, not my truth.
ok. I can't see it your way, but I cannot think of anything else to tell you.
 

Manfred

Well-known member
ok. I can't see it your way, but I cannot think of anything else to tell you.
The point is that you don't have to see it my way.

Paul writes:
1Co 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

This is not my idea, it comes from scripture and you are flat-out ignoring it. Or at a minimum you are attempting to change it by saying the "natural man" in that verse should be applied not to the natural, un-spiritual man, but to "naturally" baby Christians who are spiritual.

This is just dishonest, and is evidence that you are indeed not seeking truth, but rather prefer to live in a lie.
 
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