John 5:19 - Is Jesus limited to what the Father does?

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

The Father doesn't have a dual nature, nor became flesh, nor was seen, etc. How can Jesus make the statement above?
 

Biblican

Well-known member
Because God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself II Cor. 5:19. God is one Spirit, the Holy Spirit is His Spirit as Jesus taught. God operates through His Spirit which is in His Son. Jesus operated as a man who is indwelt with God's Spirit and God directed Him in everything Jesus did.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Because God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself II Cor. 5:19. God is one Spirit, the Holy Spirit is His Spirit as Jesus taught. God operates through His Spirit which is in His Son. Jesus operated as a man who is indwelt with God's Spirit and God directed Him in everything Jesus did.
You didn't address the question nor the issue. The Father had no dual nature nor took on flesh, nor was ever seen. Neither should have Jesus.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

The Father doesn't have a dual nature, nor became flesh, nor was seen, etc. How can Jesus make the statement above?
Do you understand the kenosis?
 

CrowCross

Super Member
You didn't answer the question.
Yes I did...you don't understand the kenosis...where the Word, who was God and with God took on flesh and became subservient to the Father.

You always present some warped idea about what YOU think christianity is and post it as "fact" as to what christians believe.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Yes I did...you don't understand the kenosis...
Kenosis... a made up idea that God stops being God.

Ironically, you're admitting Jesus isn't the God. I love it. ;)

where the Word, who was God and with God took on flesh and became subservient to the Father.
See above. The Father never became flesh and the son should have followed.

You always present some warped idea about what YOU think christianity is and post it as "fact" as to what christians believe.
Jesus said he only does what the Father does. Is this true or not?

Yes, Christianity is warped.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
Then neither should have Jesus since God didn't take on flesh. Nor did the Father stop being God.
The Father never stopped being God.
The Word who was God and with God (one of the US in Gen 1:26 and 3:22) incarnated...took on flesh... as Jesus Christ...the Anoited Savior.

Your theology has problems.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
Kenosis... a made up idea that God stops being God.
That definition is incorrect...God didn't stop being God.
Ironically, you're admitting Jesus isn't the God. I love it. ;)
No, those are words you are putting into my mouth.
See above. The Father never became flesh and the son should have followed.
Yes, the father never becme flesh....as to the second part of your sentence..????
Jesus said he only does what the Father does. Is this true or not?
Under the correct context it's true. If Jesus ate a grape does that mean the Father also ate a grape?
Yes, Christianity is warped.
You're still presenting strange made up so-called facts.
I underdstand you are still dead in your sins and trespasses and don't have the Holy Spirit...so I don't really expect you to understand much of the truth.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
The Father never stopped being God.
Correct, but Jesus was less than God in the flesh.

The Word who was God and with God (one of the US in Gen 1:26 and 3:22) incarnated...took on flesh... as Jesus Christ...the Anoited Savior.
Rotf... you already got blown away with Gen 1:26 and weren't able to respond. The Father's words created, Deut 32:6, Malachi 2:10.

Post in thread 'Before there was a day, I am He - Isaiah 43:11-13' https://forums.carm.org/threads/before-there-was-a-day-i-am-he-isaiah-43-11-13.11821/post-912062

Before there were any days, there was exclusively One, alone. ;)

Your theology has problems.
My God doesn't bow to another nor is created. Your god does, and has two knees ;)
 
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Jewjitzu

Well-known member
That definition is incorrect...God didn't stop being God.
Jesus did. He lacked omniscience, omnipotence, etc. He's what is called mutable.

No, those are words you are putting into my mouth.
That's what kenosis is about.

Yes, the father never becme flesh....as to the second part of your sentence..????
You admit then that Jesus doesn't do what the Father does. Great!

Under the correct context it's true. If Jesus ate a grape does that mean the Father also ate a grape?
You proved my point. God doesn't eat, sleep, etc. What is the context of John 5:16-19 about? Being God. ;)

False gods are physical, eat, sleep, etc., 1 Kings 18:27.

And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.”

You're still presenting strange made up so-called facts.
See above. I agree the NT is strange and made-up.

I underdstand you are still dead in your sins and trespasses and don't have the Holy Spirit...so I don't really expect you to understand much of the truth.
Rotfl... so when you get pressed and cornered this is your response. ;)

BTW, the spirit convicts one to follow the law, Zechariah 7:12, Ezekiel 36:26-27, etc.

Tata CC...
 
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CrowCross

Super Member
Correct, but Jesus was less than God in the flesh.
In a sense yes, but Jesus still remained God as He played a subserviant role to the Father as a demonstration to us as to how we should conduct our lives.

On the other hand Jesus forgave sins..which is something only God can do.
Rotf... you already got blown away with Gen 1:26 and weren't able to respond. The Father's words created, Deut 32:6, Malachi 2:10.
Malachi 2:10 Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us?

And as you very well should know by now that the creator in Genesis is an "Us".

But, hey...blow me away.


My God doesn't bow to another nor is created. Your god does, and has two knees ;)
Your god will walk into the newly built 3rd temple after he enforces the Abrahamic Accords (or something similar) and proclaim himself as God....at that moment you might just wake up. Then you will look back at these post and realize you were told the truth but you refused to believe the truth presented to you.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
In a sense yes, but Jesus still remained God as He played a subserviant role to the Father as a demonstration to us as to how we should conduct our lives.
No, even the NT admits he was less than God. God doesn't worship or bow to another. False gods do that.

On the other hand Jesus forgave sins..which is something only God can do.
In words. No true God bows to another. BTW, Jesus was given the authority to forgive. He couldn't do it on his own. ;)

Malachi 2:10 Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us?
The Father is Creator for all from the womb, even Jesus.

And as you very well should know by now that the creator in Genesis is an "Us".

But, hey...blow me away.
Well, you haven't bothered reading the link regarding Genesis 1:26. For starters, your idea of a plural us refers to a plural Gods. ;)

Read the link again, sunshine.

Post in thread 'Before there was a day, I am He - Isaiah 43:11-13' https://forums.carm.org/threads/before-there-was-a-day-i-am-he-isaiah-43-11-13.11821/post-912062

Your god will walk into the newly built 3rd temple after he enforces the Abrahamic Accords (or something similar) and proclaim himself as God....at that moment you might just wake up. Then you will look back at these post and realize you were told the truth but you refused to believe the truth presented to you.
Sorry, but I don't believe in a physical god, so you're speaking about your own ideology. ;)

Nice try sunshine 🌞.
 
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CrowCross

Super Member
No, even the NT admits he was less than God. God doesn't worship or bow to another. False gods do that.

Now you're trolling.
In words. No true God bows to another. BTW, Jesus was given the authority to forgive. He couldn't do it on his own. ;)
At least you realize Jesus can forgive sins. That's a start.
The Father is Creator for all from the womb, even Jesus.

No one is saying Jesus physical body existed in His pre-incarnate existence.
Well, you haven't bothered reading the link regarding Genesis 1:26. For starters, your idea of a plural us refers to a plural Gods. ;)

Read the link again, sunshine.

Post in thread 'Before there was a day, I am He - Isaiah 43:11-13' https://forums.carm.org/threads/before-there-was-a-day-i-am-he-isaiah-43-11-13.11821/post-912062


Sorry, but I don't believe in a physical god, so you're speaking about your own ideology. ;)

Nice try sunshine 🌞.
Your kinda into the stating nothing realm right now.

Come back when you feel you can actually make a point.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Now you're trolling.
Actually, I created this OP, so I couldn't troll my own OP.

At least you realize Jesus can forgive sins. That's a start.
As we all can. That doesn't prove divinity.

No one is saying Jesus physical body existed in His pre-incarnate existence.
He didn't exist at all until his body was created.

Your kinda into the stating nothing realm right now.
Why? Because your "us" is a misunderstanding on your part? Heiser debunks your idea.

Come back when you feel you can actually make a point.
It's my OP. Come back when you've read the link and info.
 
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