John 5:19 - Is Jesus limited to what the Father does?

CrowCross said:
Jesus' Spirit was not the Holy Spirit but was the Word....the Word who was with God and who was God.

The Word (pre-incarnate Jesus) and the Holy Spirit are two different persons of the Godhead.
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The founding apostles recognized that Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11, II Cor. 3:17,18,Philippians 1:19, Galatians 4:6,I Peter 1:11,Romans 8:9,, II Cor. 3:17. It's important to understand that Jesus said God the Father is Spirit (singular) (John 4:24), and that the Holy Spirit is His Spirit (Matthew 10:20). There is only one spirit that is God and that one Spirit is Jesus' Spirit. If we have more than one Spirit we have more than one God and that is polytheism.
The Holy Spirit was not called a person until the second century by Origen. In the original Greek the Holy Spirit is rendered in the neuter and is called an "It" in several places. My research has been confirmed by Greek language expert Danial Wallace. The word soul, which is the person of anyone is only used in association with the Father and the Son, never the Holy Spirit. Because the Father has ordained that the spirit of anyone is to operate with the soul, the person of the Holy Spirit has to be the person of the Father and the Son, two persons unified by one Holy Spirit. Again, the word soul in the original Greek is never associated with the Holy Spirit.
 
Jewjitzu said:
Sorry, but Jesus and the NT admit he was limited and not God.


Rotfl... into the Father? You prove again Jesus is created, has parts, and less than God.
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Jesus is not God the Father. They are two distinct persons or souls. His begotten soul is subordinate to the Father because it is begotten, but HIs Spirit is God's Holy Spirit and that makes Him God because God is never separated from His own Spirit. They are one as Jesus said.
 
Jewjitzu said:
And all physical substance is created.... and so on. Begotten, birthed, isn't an eternal quality.


See above. You're admitting he's created.


Zero support for this.


Then Jesus isn't God.


No. Being created isn't the same God.
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Jesus soul is begotten and is made eternal because God unified Him with His Spirit. That is where Jesus divinity is found, in His Spirit, not His begotten soul. Are you a dichotomist? That would explain why you are having a problem understanding this.
Anything that God has created is from nothing. Jesus was not created he was birthed from God's Spirit that's the difference.
Jesus said He was God's image and He always represented God in the Old Testament. That's why He said "Before Abraham was I am."
Jesus is not God the Father they are two distinct persons united by God's Spirit. That is what makes Jesus and the Father one.
 
Jewjitzu said:
No. Being created isn't the same God.
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Jesus soul was not created. Being created out of nothing and being birthed from something are not the same thing. Jesus' Spirit is God's Spirit and God is never separated from His own Spirit.
 
Biblican said:
The founding apostles recognized that Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
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No. All I have to do is point out Jesus' baptism.....when all 3 were present....and the dove wasn't getting baptized.

Jesus is the Word...Jesus is not the Holy Spirit.
 
Jewjitzu said:
Then neither should have Jesus since God didn't take on flesh. Nor did the Father stop being God.
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God took PART in Flesh, bone and Blood, and was not a Partaker in it. Jesus did take on flesh, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

Jewjitzu said:
Correct, but Jesus was less than God in the flesh.
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ERROR, same Spirit/Nature, only
G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain
Root(s): G2756

while in Flesh, Glorified after his resurrection.

:ninja:
 
John 5:19 "Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."

is not Jesus, as the Son is God almighty the "LORD" Shared EQUALLY in Flesh
Jewjitzu said:
God doesn't have a human nature. Start there.
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ok, we'll see.
Jewjitzu said:
God created man in His image. Jesus being begotten shows he was created and dependent on another which God isn't.
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Jewjitzu said:
Impossible? God isn't created, but Jesus was.
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Now, let's examine what you said. u said Jesus is not God, and he's not a man, but you said Jesus was CREATED. and also, A perfect image doesn't die or have physicality. the Lord Jesus is the "EXPRESS IMAGE" of God's person, and Express means EXACT, so he's the perfect IMAGE, and has physicality, and remember you said Jesus is created.

with that said, now there are only THREE entities, 1. God. 2, Angels, and 3. Man, if Jesus is none of these then you have created a new ENTITY, which is ANTI BIBLE

Lastly. you said,
Jewjitzu said:
And all physical substance is created.... and so on. Begotten, birthed, isn't an eternal quality.
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well the Lord Jesus is the ONLY ONE who is ETERNAL. 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:"1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

:ninja:
 
CrowCross said:
No. All I have to do is point out Jesus' baptism.....when all 3 were present....and the dove wasn't getting baptized.

Jesus is the Word...Jesus is not the Holy Spirit.
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Jesus already had the Holy Spirit as His life force when He went to be baptized. "As the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself" (John 5:26). Jesus' Spirit is where His divinity is found. He was born with it and the Holy Spirit gave Him life as a man. When He was baptized He received the Holy Spirit as a man would because He was identifying with man and would operate as a spirit-filled man from that point on. Remember the Holy Spirit is omnipresent and can be in the Son and everywhere at the same time because the Holy Spirit is also the Father's Spirit (Matthew 10:20). And there is only one Spirit that is God (John 4:24).

As a man Jesus was constructed as any man, he had a body, compliments of Mary, a soul which is His person and a spirit which gives Him life. The difference between Adam and Jesus is that Adam began life by the breath, nashamah in Hebrew, not the Holy Spirit (Ruach) otherwise He would have been divine. Jesus was given life by the Holy Spirit. "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening (lifegiving) Spirit" (I Cor. 15:45). Therefore His divinity is in His Spirit. His Holy Spirit unified with His soul makes Him fully God, His soul unified with His body makes Him fully man. The Holy Spirit is the life in the blood of Jesus which correlates to the Old Testament typology in Leviticus 17:11. God put His Holy Spirit of eternal life into the blood of Jesus (because He was the only one holy enough to contain it) which is released to us by faith in the atonement, which removes our sins so we can receive it. We cannot have eternal life until the Holy Spirit of eternal life is unified with our souls, because the nashamah that we inherit from Adam was not designed to transport our souls into heaven because we were meant to live forever on earth. Please go back and study the scriptures I gave that show how the apostles recognized that Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit.
 
Biblican said:
Nope. You need to do your own research. If you discover it for yourself, you won't be arguing about it.
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You don't seem to be aware of how this works. If you make a claim, you back up that claim with arguments or evidence. It is not up to the other person to do any research at all to investigate what you have said. The responsibility is all on you to document your point.

Now, if you don't want to do that, fine. But then don't expect to persuade anyone. Your opinion will simply be just another random opinion that no one has to pay any attention to.

Your choice.
 
Open Heart said:
You don't seem to be aware of how this works. If you make a claim, you back up that claim with arguments or evidence. It is not up to the other person to do any research at all to investigate what you have said. The responsibility is all on you to document your point.

Now, if you don't want to do that, fine. But then don't expect to persuade anyone. Your opinion will simply be just another random opinion that no one has to pay any attention to.

Your choice.
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That's a cop out on your part. I come on here as a teacher not a debater. If you do not agree with what I said, then you have the responsibility to produce the scripture that refutes it. I am waiting.
 
Biblican said:
That's a cop out on your part. I come on here as a teacher not a debater. If you do not agree with what I said, then you have the responsibility to produce the scripture that refutes it. I am waiting.
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No one appointed you teacher. This is a forum. It is designed for dialogue, especially debate. Again, it is not the reponsibility of the person reading your post to go look for evidence of your point. That's your job alone.
 
Biblican said:
The founding apostles recognized that Jesus' Spirit is the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:11, II Cor. 3:17,18,Philippians 1:19, Galatians 4:6,I Peter 1:11,Romans 8:9,, II Cor. 3:17. It's important to understand that Jesus said God the Father is Spirit (singular) (John 4:24), and that the Holy Spirit is His Spirit (Matthew 10:20). There is only one spirit that is God and that one Spirit is Jesus' Spirit. If we have more than one Spirit we have more than one God and that is polytheism.
The Holy Spirit was not called a person until the second century by Origen. In the original Greek the Holy Spirit is rendered in the neuter and is called an "It" in several places. My research has been confirmed by Greek language expert Danial Wallace. The word soul, which is the person of anyone is only used in association with the Father and the Son, never the Holy Spirit. Because the Father has ordained that the spirit of anyone is to operate with the soul, the person of the Holy Spirit has to be the person of the Father and the Son, two persons unified by one Holy Spirit. Again, the word soul in the original Greek is never associated with the Holy Spirit.
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Tanakh recognizes that Jesus isn't God. Someone with God's Spirit, doesn't lack knowledge or awareness like Jesus did. He isn't God in any way.
 
101G said:
God took PART in Flesh, bone and Blood, and was not a Partaker in it. Jesus did take on flesh, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
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False, because Jesus said he does only what the Father does, and the Father has no physicality, etc. ;)

101G said:
ERROR, same Spirit/Nature, only
G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') v.
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain
Root(s): G2756

while in Flesh, Glorified after his resurrection.

:ninja:
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Your NT admits Jesus was less than God above. ;)
 
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