John the Baptist was not Elijah

Yes, according to this particular gospel, John denied being Elijah. That is established, incidentally, from the first "art thou" question... the second, as has been pointed out to you elsewhere, concerns his denial of being the prophet like Moses anticipated in Deuteronomy.


You are making the mistake of reading Matthew through a Johannine lens... if you let the Matthean text speak for itself, it is equally obvious that this author thinks John was Elijah. There is an explicit such claim placed in the mouth of Jesus elsewhere in the gospel that you have overlooked here. I will quote the section at length, since it is pertinent to discussion later on in the thread about John's role as the Isaianic messenger:

As they went away, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John: "What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A reed shaken by the wind? What then did you go out to see? Someone dressed in soft robes? Look, those who wear soft robes are in royal palaces. What then did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. This is the one about whom it is written,
'See, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way before you.'
Truly I tell you, among those born of women no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John came; and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come. Let anyone with ears listen!"
Matt 11:7-15


On reaching 17:11-13, the equation of John and Elijah has already been established by the author... it can thus be reiterated in different and even ambiguous words in order to provide several of Jesus' disciples with a moment of intellectual clarity --- the verb συνιημι (syniemi) means "to have an intelligent grasp of something that challenges one's thinking or practice" (BDAG). To suggest that 17:13 conveys the subjects' misunderstanding of an equation between John and Elijah is to misread the text:

And the disciples asked him, "Why, then, do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" He replied, "Elijah is indeed coming and will restore all things; but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but they did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man is about to suffer at their hands." Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them about John the Baptist.
Matt 17:10-13


The disciples (contextually Peter, James and John; cf. 17:1) are narrated to have seen a vision of Moses and Elijah with the transfigured Jesus (17:2-3) and their disappearance (17:8) prompts them to ask about the tradition of Elijah's coming (cf. Mal 4:5-6). At this point they understand this literally and are genuinely confused about the prophet's brief appearance on the mountain that fails to meet expectations. Jesus proceeds to correct their misunderstanding by claiming that Elijah has already come, but was not recognized... he draws parallel between what he is about to suffer with what was done to this Elijah, a cryptic reference to John's beheading narrated in flashback at 14:3-11. The disciples grasp the connection, which challenges their previous literal interpretation of Elijah, now coming to understanding that John the Baptist was this Elijah.


The phrase "in the spirit of Elijah" comes from Luke 1:17 and, unless you're proposing Luke presents the angelic visitor who appears to Zechariah as an unreliable witness, the messenger's claim concerning Zechariah's future son (ie. John) can be taken as this gospel author's endorsement of a position somewhere between Matthew's (John is Elijah) and John's (John is not Elijah)... he comes not as Elijah, but in his spirit and power. This is an early attempt at resolving the tension between the two traditions... you are welcome to embrace that of John, but do not misread Matthew or outright ignore Luke in the process.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
Very complicated and hard to follow .
Zechariah has nothing to do with Elijah.
Malachi 4:
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
John the Baptist accomplished none of this .
 
Very complicated and hard to follow .
Who said good biblical exegesis was simple?

Zechariah has nothing to do with Elijah.
I am, of course, referring to Zechariah the priest of the order of Abijah, whom Luke presents as the father of John (1:5,13,59-63; 3:2), whose identity as the Elijah to come is the subject of this thread.

Malachi 4:
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
John the Baptist accomplished none of this .
Your opinion is duly noted and you're welcome to believe whatever you want, but as I demonstrated in my previous post, you have to misread Matthew and ignore Luke to draw this conclusion. With respect to the latter, the passage I specifically cited reads as follows;

With the spirit and power of Elijah he will go before him, to turn the hearts of parents to their children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Luke 1:17


Luke is clearly alluding to the tradition of Mal 4:5-6 and applying it to John, not Jesus.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 
Who said good biblical exegesis was simple?


I am, of course, referring to Zechariah the priest of the order of Abijah, whom Luke presents as the father of John (1:5,13,59-63; 3:2), whose identity as the Elijah to come is the subject of this thread.


Your opinion is duly noted and you're welcome to believe whatever you want, but as I demonstrated in my previous post, you have to misread Matthew and ignore Luke to draw this conclusion. With respect to the latter, the passage I specifically cited reads as follows;

With the spirit and power of Elijah he will go before him, to turn the hearts of parents to their children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
Luke 1:17


Luke is clearly alluding to the tradition of Mal 4:5-6 and applying it to John, not Jesus.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
There is the knowledge of man and the wisdom of GOD .
Let not the two be confused .
Where did John the Baptist fulfill these
Malachi 4:
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
I see no power of Elijah in him .
What Jesus Came To Do
Separate tares from the wheat
Matthew 13:40 (KJV)
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Did not come to send peace
Matthew 10:34 (KJV)
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Division
Matthew 10:35 (KJV)
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luke 12:53 (KJV)
The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

As you can see
These things he has done .
His assignment is fulfilled.
 
There is the knowledge of man and the wisdom of GOD .
Let not the two be confused .
Your anti-intellectualism is duly noted. Regurgitating rebutted claims ad nauseum is no expression of wisdom, divine or otherwise.

Where did John the Baptist fulfill these
Malachi 4:
4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, [with] the statutes and judgments.
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
I see no power of Elijah in him
Again, you are welcome to your opinion, but this is the Bible questions and discussion forum... both Matthew and Luke, two of the biblical authors, disagree with you as I've already demonstrated --- John is the Elijah to come (Matthew) or comes in his spirit and power (Luke), the latter appeals directly to the Malachi text with a paraphrase of its salient points. You can add Mark to the list of biblical authors who disagree with you on the basis of 9:11-13 in that gospel. Unless you intend to engage directly with what I've posted and attempt some sort of point-by-point rebuttal, further dialogue is pointless...

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 
Your anti-intellectualism is duly noted. Regurgitating rebutted claims ad nauseum is no expression of wisdom, divine or otherwise.


Again, you are welcome to your opinion, but this is the Bible questions and discussion forum... both Matthew and Luke, two of the biblical authors, disagree with you as I've already demonstrated --- John is the Elijah to come (Matthew) or comes in his spirit and power (Luke), the latter appeals directly to the Malachi text with a paraphrase of its salient points. You can add Mark to the list of biblical authors who disagree with you on the basis of 9:11-13 in that gospel. Unless you intend to engage directly with what I've posted and attempt some sort of point-by-point rebuttal, further dialogue is pointless...

Kind regards,
Jonathan
Like you say this is a Bible forum .
Discussion
One of my questions is
why do you people get so ugly when someone questions your beliefs?
Insults or demeaning remarks .
But my question still remains .
How did John the Baptist have the spirit of Elijah?
He done little if not close to nothing .
When did he fulfill verse 6 ?
Elijah beheaded about 650 false prophets.
His main job was confronting false prophets.
That was his specialty.
Just show what John did .
Works Proves faith .
Deeds prove the man .
 
Like you say this is a Bible forum .
Discussion
One of my questions is
why do you people get so ugly when someone questions your beliefs?
Insults or demeaning remarks .
Your question is not germane to the topic of this forum... as we both have stated, this is a place to discuss the biblical text. If you feel my characterization of your repetitive posting behavior is ugly, insulting or demeaning, that says very little about what I wrote and a lot about the way you react to criticisms of your own position. For the record, I have not disclosed my beliefs, which I bracket out of discussion here in order to aim as close as possible to objectivity... I am answering the general question: What did these biblical authors intend to convey? Note that I am not asking about what the historical Baptist or Jesus did or thought, those are important but entirely different questions and ones that cannot even be pursued without first establishing what the pertinent texts are claiming and their value as historical sources.

But my question still remains .
How did John the Baptist have the spirit of Elijah?
He done little if not close to nothing .
When did he fulfill verse 6 ?
Elijah beheaded about 650 false prophets.
His main job was confronting false prophets.
That was his specialty.
Just show what John did .
Works Proves faith .
Deeds prove the man .
Your question as phrased is an historical one, which as I outline above is two steps removed from the preliminary question I'm exploring, which is what the biblical authors are claiming about John in light of the tradition in Israel's sacred texts about an Elijah figure to come. Your exegetical approach is to start with a particular belief and interpret biblical texts in light of this. You are certainly welcome to do that under the currently-fashionable framework of postmodernism, but please don't confuse that with a legitimate exegesis aimed at understanding what these authors were attempting to convey. The fact remains that Matthew and Mark assert John is Elijah, Luke asserts that he came in the spirit and power of that prophet, and John rejects any connection between them. We have three different views and there is thus a long way to go before one can answer the historical question you ask...

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 
Your question is not germane to the topic of this forum... as we both have stated, this is a place to discuss the biblical text. If you feel my characterization of your repetitive posting behavior is ugly, insulting or demeaning, that says very little about what I wrote and a lot about the way you react to criticisms of your own position. For the record, I have not disclosed my beliefs, which I bracket out of discussion here in order to aim as close as possible to objectivity... I am answering the general question: What did these biblical authors intend to convey? Note that I am not asking about what the historical Baptist or Jesus did or thought, those are important but entirely different questions and ones that cannot even be pursued without first establishing what the pertinent texts are claiming and their value as historical sources.


Your question as phrased is an historical one, which as I outline above is two steps removed from the preliminary question I'm exploring, which is what the biblical authors are claiming about John in light of the tradition in Israel's sacred texts about an Elijah figure to come. Your exegetical approach is to start with a particular belief and interpret biblical texts in light of this. You are certainly welcome to do that under the currently-fashionable framework of postmodernism, but please don't confuse that with a legitimate exegesis aimed at understanding what these authors were attempting to convey. The fact remains that Matthew and Mark assert John is Elijah, Luke asserts that he came in the spirit and power of that prophet, and John rejects any connection between them. We have three different views and there is thus a long way to go before one can answer the historical question you ask...

Kind regards,
Jonathan
You are still covering the cake with so much icing no one can see the flavor of the cake .
Just a straight short answer without all the rambling.
Get off your soap box and give a simple answer , to a simple question , to a simple man .
 
You are still covering the cake with so much icing no one can see the flavor of the cake .
Just a straight short answer without all the rambling.
Get off your soap box and give a simple answer , to a simple question , to a simple man .
As I noted earlier in our exchange, there is nothing simple about sound biblical exegesis... if you do not want to grow in your understanding of the complexities of biblical interpretation and prefer to keep things facile, I'm sure you'll find other posters willing to engage with you on that level --- I am not one of them. I will condense my previous post down to this: I am not asking about what the historical Baptist or Jesus did or thought, those are important but entirely different questions and ones that cannot even be pursued without first establishing what the pertinent texts are claiming and their value as historical sources. You are stuck at the underlined stage and confusing it with the others... and it is apparent you are content to remain there. Here is where the dialogue ends until such time as you wish to move beyond that...

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 
John the Baptist never operated in the spirit of Elijah but Jesus sure did .
Addressing the OP, only.
Agreed, John the Baptist was not the Elijah in person but in spirit. supportive scripture,
(Point #1). In Malachi 4:5-6, God announced that He would send “Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD and to turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers.”

these verses are parallel to Luke 1:15-17 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God 17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord".

this is like reading a newspaper headline from the OT in the NT. John was to be in the "spirit" and "power" of Elijah, not the man Elijah, but in power and spirit of him.

(Point #2). The Lord Jesus identified John as the Elijah. Matthew 11:13 & 14 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come".
but the Lord Jesus made this same statement again at his transfiguration. Matthew 17:9-12 "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. 10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them".

now listen to verse 13 carefully, "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist".

now, just STOP for a moment. question, can the Lord Jesus LIE? no. well if the Lord Jesus said that this is Elijah, John the Baptist, that is to come and is already came then there's no argument.

(Point #3). Isaiah 40:2 & 3 "Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins 3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God".

several other points to make here,
(a). 3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness". what did John say? John 1:21-23 "And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 "Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 "He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias".

that's a direct quote from the prophet Isaiah. John said that he is that voice. Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD".

(b). "Prepare ye the way of the LORD". that's LORD all caps...(smile), I thought the "Lord" JESUS came, and Isaiah said, our God. please read Isaiah 40:3 again.

so the conclusion: John the Baptist is the Elijah to come in "spirit" and "power". NOT the flesh and blood man Elijah. but his "foreshadow".

hope that helped.
PICJAG, 101G.
 
Addressing the OP, only.
Agreed, John the Baptist was not the Elijah in person but in spirit. supportive scripture,
(Point #1). In Malachi 4:5-6, God announced that He would send “Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD and to turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers.”

these verses are parallel to Luke 1:15-17 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. 16 "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God 17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord".

this is like reading a newspaper headline from the OT in the NT. John was to be in the "spirit" and "power" of Elijah, not the man Elijah, but in power and spirit of him.

(Point #2). The Lord Jesus identified John as the Elijah. Matthew 11:13 & 14 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come".
but the Lord Jesus made this same statement again at his transfiguration. Matthew 17:9-12 "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. 10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them".

now listen to verse 13 carefully, "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist".

now, just STOP for a moment. question, can the Lord Jesus LIE? no. well if the Lord Jesus said that this is Elijah, John the Baptist, that is to come and is already came then there's no argument.

(Point #3). Isaiah 40:2 & 3 "Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins 3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God".

several other points to make here,
(a). 3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness". what did John say? John 1:21-23 "And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 "Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
23 "He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias".

that's a direct quote from the prophet Isaiah. John said that he is that voice. Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD".

(b). "Prepare ye the way of the LORD". that's LORD all caps...(smile), I thought the "Lord" JESUS came, and Isaiah said, our God. please read Isaiah 40:3 again.

so the conclusion: John the Baptist is the Elijah to come in "spirit" and "power". NOT the flesh and blood man Elijah. but his "foreshadow".

hope that helped.
PICJAG, 101G.
Read my post again .
Please show where John did any of those things .
John denied being such and even doubted who Jesus was .
Believe as you are lead .
 
Read my post again .
Please show where John did any of those things .
John denied being such and even doubted who Jesus was .
Believe as you are lead .
I did, but you fail to understand this import5ant fact, John was one of the two witness mention in Revelation 11. which my post showed and the Lord Jesus confirmed, who by the way is the other of the two witness.
understand,

The comparison of John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus to Moses and Elijah

The Prophet John the Baptist parallels the Prophet Elijah.

What is a parallel? a person or thing that is similar or analogous to another.

What is analogous? comparable in certain respects, typically in a way that makes clearer the nature of the things compared. it is synonyms with, comparable, parallel, similar, and equivalent

#1. Both are Prophets.

#2. Both had the similar dress.

#3. Both confronted kings of their day.

#4. Both were preachers to the nations

#5. Both have water connections as did the Lord Jesus and Moses.

#6. Both Rebuke Israel for Corruption in Their Religion.

#7. They Both Were Victims of Evil Women.

when the Lord Jesus confirmed John as the Elijah to come, that's final for me. Matthew 11:13 & 14 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come".
see maybe you cannot recieve this, one more,
at his transfiguration. Matthew 17:9-12 "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. 10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them". Matthew 17:13 "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."


PICJAG, 101G.
 
I did, but you fail to understand this import5ant fact, John was one of the two witness mention in Revelation 11. which my post showed and the Lord Jesus confirmed, who by the way is the other of the two witness.
understand,

The comparison of John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus to Moses and Elijah

The Prophet John the Baptist parallels the Prophet Elijah.

What is a parallel? a person or thing that is similar or analogous to another.

What is analogous? comparable in certain respects, typically in a way that makes clearer the nature of the things compared. it is synonyms with, comparable, parallel, similar, and equivalent

#1. Both are Prophets.

#2. Both had the similar dress.

#3. Both confronted kings of their day.

#4. Both were preachers to the nations

#5. Both have water connections as did the Lord Jesus and Moses.

#6. Both Rebuke Israel for Corruption in Their Religion.

#7. They Both Were Victims of Evil Women.

when the Lord Jesus confirmed John as the Elijah to come, that's final for me. Matthew 11:13 & 14 "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 "And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come".
see maybe you cannot recieve this, one more,
at his transfiguration. Matthew 17:9-12 "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead. 10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? 11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. 12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them". Matthew 17:13 "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."


PICJAG, 101G.
And again I ask where did John restore all things .
How was he the spirit of Elijah?
No comparison what so ever .
 
And again I ask where did John restore all things .
How was he the spirit of Elijah?
No comparison what so ever .
first thanks for the reply, second did you not hear my post?. he turned the people hearts back to the TRUE GOD. just as Elijah did on mount carmel, turned the peoples heart back to God.... are you baptized? with water and the Holy Ghost, (fire?) the restortation, scripture,
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
IS THIS NOT THE GREAT COMMISSION?

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mark 1:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mark 1:5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
Mark 1:6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;
Mark 1:7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

now, lets see it clearly.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


How was he the spirit of Elijah?
by his character or characteristic in the way he acted.
No comparison what so ever .
your opinion?

PICJAG, 101G
 
first thanks for the reply, second did you not hear my post?. he turned the people hearts back to the TRUE GOD. just as Elijah did on mount carmel, turned the peoples heart back to God.... are you baptized? with water and the Holy Ghost, (fire?) the restortation, scripture,
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
IS THIS NOT THE GREAT COMMISSION?

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
Mark 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
Mark 1:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
Mark 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Mark 1:5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.
Mark 1:6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;
Mark 1:7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

now, lets see it clearly.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.



by his character or characteristic in the way he acted.

your opinion?

PICJAG, 101G
No matter if we agree or disagree.
Truth is what all must seek .
Jeremiah 14:14 (KJV)
Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
 
No matter if we agree or disagree.
Truth is what all must seek .
Jeremiah 14:14 (KJV)
Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
first thanks for the reply,
second, it makes no difference if you and I agree or not, for the word of God is written, and change not.
PICJAG, 101G
 
the word of God is written, and change not.
So aside from not knowing the difference between a proper noun and a verb, you also know nothing about textual criticism and the plethora of changes both accidental and deliberate that have crept into the manuscript traditions of the Bible... got it. (y)

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 
So aside from not knowing the difference between a proper noun and a verb, you also know nothing about textual criticism and the plethora of changes both accidental and deliberate that have crept into the manuscript traditions of the Bible... got it. (y)

Kind regards,
Jonathan
so, that's all you have? ...... thought so.

PICJAG, 101G.
 
Jesus To Elijah

Compare Jesus to Elijah

Elijah 1 Kings 17:1 no rain
Jesus Matthew 8:26 calm the sea

Elijah 1 Kings 17:14 multiplied meal and oil
Jesus Matthew 14:7 multiply fish and bread .

Elijah 1 Kings 17:23 Raised widows son
Jesus John 11:43 raised Lazarus

Elijah 1 Kings 18:18 They had forsaken the commandments
Jesus Matthew 15:9 doctrines of men .

Elijah 1 Kings 19:8 Fasted 40 days
Jesus Matthew 4:2 Fasted 40 days

John 1:21 (KJV) And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
John the Baptist denied being Elijah.

Matthew 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Read again closely
Jesus never said John was Elijah.
The disciples assumed it .

John the Baptist never operated in the spirit of Elijah but Jesus sure did .
What purpose did John the Baptist serve? He was announced by an angel before his birth to Zacharias, the high priest in the temple during his ministry as high priest (Luke 1). Since no other prophet has ever been announced in this fashion (the closest was Samuel who was dedicated pre-birth by Hannah at the temple and of course Samson who was a judge of Israel), this would have made John the Baptist the greatest prophet who had ever lived up to that time. Jesus stated that among them born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist (Mt 11:11). But it almost appears that his life was a failure since all he ever did was baptize several people in the river and then got arrested and had his head chopped off while in prison. Since he was greater than Moses, Elijah or even Abraham what purpose did he serve and why would he need an angel to announce such a humble ministry? Did God err in sending an angel to announce John's entry into the world? Who almost seemed to have become a failure - a prophet who was destined to be the greatest that Israel had even seen up to that time and who was not even selected to be an apostle. I suggest that the answer is that the ministry of John was introduced to show the superiority of the ministry of Jesus over all other prophets and those before Him. When Jesus was transfigured on the mountain and his disciples suggested making three tents one for Moses, one for Elijah and one for Jesus, they were treating Jesus on equal footing with these two great prophets when a voice came out from a cloud saying, 'this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him". Moses represented the law and Elijah represented the prophets but the ministry of Jesus was superior to them all. Jesus trained and discipled 12 apostles who were hand picked to reveal to the rest of us what God meant when He said "listen to Him". And their teaching and writings were added to our scripture along with Paul whose writings were endorsed by Peter as scripture in his letters to the gentiles. 2 Pe. 3:16
 
What purpose did John the Baptist serve? He was announced by an angel before his birth to Zacharias, the high priest in the temple during his ministry as high priest (Luke 1). Since no other prophet has ever been announced in this fashion (the closest was Samuel who was dedicated pre-birth by Hannah at the temple and of course Samson who was a judge of Israel), this would have made John the Baptist the greatest prophet who had ever lived up to that time. Jesus stated that among them born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist (Mt 11:11). But it almost appears that his life was a failure since all he ever did was baptize several people in the river and then got arrested and had his head chopped off while in prison. Since he was greater than Moses, Elijah or even Abraham what purpose did he serve and why would he need an angel to announce such a humble ministry? Did God err in sending an angel to announce John's entry into the world? Who almost seemed to have become a failure - a prophet who was destined to be the greatest that Israel had even seen up to that time and who was not even selected to be an apostle. I suggest that the answer is that the ministry of John was introduced to show the superiority of the ministry of Jesus over all other prophets and those before Him. When Jesus was transfigured on the mountain and his disciples suggested making three tents one for Moses, one for Elijah and one for Jesus, they were treating Jesus on equal footing with these two great prophets when a voice came out from a cloud saying, 'this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Listen to Him". Moses represented the law and Elijah represented the prophets but the ministry of Jesus was superior to them all. Jesus trained and discipled 12 apostles who were hand picked to reveal to the rest of us what God meant when He said "listen to Him". And their teaching and writings were added to our scripture along with Paul whose writings were endorsed by Peter as scripture in his letters to the gentiles. 2 Pe. 3:16
John's Baptism is still on going even until this day this hour. for it's an Ordinance of God to man.
Luke 7:29 "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John." Luke 7:30 "But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him."

Luke 20:1 "And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders," Luke 20:2 "And spake unto him, saying, Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority?" Luke 20:3 "And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me:" Luke 20:4 "The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?" Luke 20:5 "And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not?" Luke 20:6 "But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet." Luke 20:7 "And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was." Luke 20:8 "And Jesus said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things."

PICJAG, 101G.
 
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