John the Baptist was not Elijah

Jim harmon

Active member
Jesus To Elijah

Compare Jesus to Elijah

Elijah 1 Kings 17:1 no rain
Jesus Matthew 8:26 calm the sea

Elijah 1 Kings 17:14 multiplied meal and oil
Jesus Matthew 14:7 multiply fish and bread .

Elijah 1 Kings 17:23 Raised widows son
Jesus John 11:43 raised Lazarus

Elijah 1 Kings 18:18 They had forsaken the commandments
Jesus Matthew 15:9 doctrines of men .

Elijah 1 Kings 19:8 Fasted 40 days
Jesus Matthew 4:2 Fasted 40 days

John 1:21 (KJV) And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
John the Baptist denied being Elijah.

Matthew 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Read again closely
Jesus never said John was Elijah.
The disciples assumed it .

John the Baptist never operated in the spirit of Elijah but Jesus sure did .
 
Greetings Jim harmon,
John the Baptist never operated in the spirit of Elijah but Jesus sure did .
You seem to be alluding to the following, but deny that John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah.
Luke 1:13–17 (KJV): 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Also the above appears to be alluding to the following:
Malachi 4:5–6 (KJV): 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Also the last phrase of Luke 1:17 "to make ready a people prepared for the Lord" is similar to the following which is quoted in the NT to refer to John the Baptist:
Isaiah 40:3–8 (KJV): 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. 6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Mark 1:2–5 (KJV): 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.


Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings Jim harmon,

You seem to be alluding to the following, but deny that John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah.
Luke 1:13–17 (KJV): 13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. 16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. 17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Also the above appears to be alluding to the following:
Malachi 4:5–6 (KJV): 5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Also the last phrase of Luke 1:17 "to make ready a people prepared for the Lord" is similar to the following which is quoted in the NT to refer to John the Baptist:
Isaiah 40:3–8 (KJV): 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. 6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Mark 1:2–5 (KJV): 2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.


Kind regards
Trevor
He did very little as compared to Elijah .
 
Greetings Jim harmon,
He did very little as compared to Elijah .
I suggest that he was much more effective in his short ministry than Elijah. The whole nation went out to John in the wilderness to be baptised, except John rejected the Pharisees for their lack of repentance. He prepared some of his own disciples to accept Jesus when he was revealed, such as Peter, Andrew, James and John, and there must have been other disciples who did not become Apostles.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings Jim harmon,

I suggest that he was much more effective in his short ministry than Elijah. The whole nation went out to John in the wilderness to be baptised, except John rejected the Pharisees for their lack of repentance. He prepared some of his own disciples to accept Jesus when he was revealed, such as Peter, Andrew, James and John, and there must have been other disciples who did not become Apostles.

Kind regards
Trevor
I don’t remember any of that in the Bible ?
 
Greetings again Jim harmon,
He did very little as compared to Elijah .
I don’t remember any of that in the Bible ?
It has been some days now and I was disappointed that there has not been some response to your comments above, and I do not know if you have reconsidered your statements. I thought that I would have had time to quote a few references to substantiate what I stated, or even make a list. A simple review of the obvious references will substantiate the significant role and effect of John's preaching. I may be able to spend some time on this next week if there is nothing forthcoming.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings again Jim harmon,


It has been some days now and I was disappointed that there has not been some response to your comments above, and I do not know if you have reconsidered your statements. I thought that I would have had time to quote a few references to substantiate what I stated, or even make a list. A simple review of the obvious references will substantiate the significant role and effect of John's preaching. I may be able to spend some time on this next week if there is nothing forthcoming.

Kind regards
Trevor
I will be waiting.
 
Greetings again Jim harmon,

In the meantime, you or others for starters may care to look at some of the relevant verses in Isaiah 40, Malachi 3, Luke 1, Matthew 3, Mark 1, Luke 3 and John 1.

Kind regards
Trevor
Reviewed those scriptures.
See no proof of John coming in the Spirit of Elijah.
Jesus fits it more than John .
Believe as you are lead .

What Jesus Came To Do
Separate tares from the wheat
Matthew 13:40 (KJV)
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Did not come to send peace
Matthew 10:34 (KJV)
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Division
Matthew 10:35 (KJV)
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Luke 12:53 (KJV)
The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

These are the things Jesus said he would do and just look around you .
He has done what the FATHER commanded .
Fulfilled his purpose.
 
He did very little as compared to Elijah .
John the Baptist baptized Jesus. The Trinity was revealed at the baptism.
Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”

But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.

When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:13-17 NKJV

Jesus says that no prophet was greater than John the Baptist:
Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist . . . Matthew 11:11 NKJV
 
Who weighs one prophet against another ?
Each prophet has his assigned mission.
Yes, none was greater than John the Baptist. That is what Jesus said according to Matthew.

Right after meeting Elijah at the Transfiguration, Jesus had this message for the disciples:

Jesus answered and said to them, “Indeed, Elijah is coming first and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.
Matthew 17:11-13 NKJV
 
Greetings again Jim harmon,
I will be waiting.
I decided to start quoting some of the references and then making a few comments.
Isaiah 40:3–8 (KJV): 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. 6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
The NT reveals that this is speaking about the role and preaching of John the Baptist. This teaches that John the Baptist prepared the way before Christ. This is revealed using figurative language and the full meaning of verse 2 becomes clear in the NT. Also the message that he was to preach mentioned in verses 6-8 is also given in figurative language and care is needed to understand this.

Malachi 3:1 (KJV): 1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Again the NT reveals that this is speaking about the role and preaching of John the Baptist. Both these prophetic references give some indication that the work of John the Baptist would be effectual, and this role was to prepare the way before our Lord Jesus Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
John the Baptist baptized Jesus. The Trinity was revealed at the baptism.


Jesus says that no prophet was greater than John the Baptist:
Trinity revealed? What actually happened in Matt 3:16 was God was manifest in Jesus and opened up all of who God is in that man by His Spirit. The same happened in us all who receives from God the same manifestation of God in us.

Jesus referred to this manifestation of God in you as born again, a renewing of the mind where a new heaven and earth is open in you just as it was opened in Jesus in Matt 3:16. And when you see Him as He really is as Jesus did in Matt 3:16, ye shall be like Him as well as Jesus was like Him. John 3.
Trinity is a man made doctrine to keep you from receiving from God the same as Jesus received from Him, Adam received from Him and became like Him, Gen 3:22, Abraham received, Moses received, 120 received and Jesus did in Matt 3:16.

God never changed into a trinity LOL, He always has been the same Spirit and man always has been His temple, His dwelling place, His abode. These of the trinity religion never has met Him as these did we read of before us and is designed to keep you from being like Him. Why? same reason those of Jesus day had him crucified for blaspheme, they were of the laws for their traditions just as the Trinitys laws for tradition teach.

The way of God is you be like Him and in His same image which is Spirit.
 
Greetings again Jim harmon,

I decided to start quoting some of the references and then making a few comments.
Isaiah 40:3–8 (KJV): 3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. 6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: 7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. 8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.
The NT reveals that this is speaking about the role and preaching of John the Baptist. This teaches that John the Baptist prepared the way before Christ. This is revealed using figurative language and the full meaning of verse 2 becomes clear in the NT. Also the message that he was to preach mentioned in verses 6-8 is also given in figurative language and care is needed to understand this.

Malachi 3:1 (KJV): 1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Again the NT reveals that this is speaking about the role and preaching of John the Baptist. Both these prophetic references give some indication that the work of John the Baptist would be effectual, and this role was to prepare the way before our Lord Jesus Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor
Very nice wording but you’re reading into scripture.
Was John lying when he denied being that prophet ?
explain please .

Only one way it works .
Jesus was Elijah.
Paving the way for David spoken of in
Jeremiah and Ezekiel.
 
Trinity revealed? What actually happened in Matt 3:16 was God was manifest in Jesus and opened up all of who God is in that man by His Spirit. The same happened in us all who receives from God the same manifestation of God in us.

Jesus referred to this manifestation of God in you as born again, a renewing of the mind where a new heaven and earth is open in you just as it was opened in Jesus in Matt 3:16. And when you see Him as He really is as Jesus did in Matt 3:16, ye shall be like Him as well as Jesus was like Him. John 3.
Trinity is a man made doctrine to keep you from receiving from God the same as Jesus received from Him, Adam received from Him and became like Him, Gen 3:22, Abraham received, Moses received, 120 received and Jesus did in Matt 3:16.

God never changed into a trinity LOL, He always has been the same Spirit and man always has been His temple, His dwelling place, His abode. These of the trinity religion never has met Him as these did we read of before us and is designed to keep you from being like Him. Why? same reason those of Jesus day had him crucified for blaspheme, they were of the laws for their traditions just as the Trinitys laws for tradition teach.

The way of God is you be like Him and in His same image which is Spirit.
Sounds like we may agree so far .
Trinity is a man made doctrine that falls apart with scriptures.
GOD wants to walk with man , not be man .
 
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