Just a reminder of how barbaric the insurrection on Jan 6th really was.

shnarkle

Well-known member
I agree 100%. The behavior of the rioters was inexcusable. The irony, of course, is that the video footage taken by the rioters will be used as evidence which will result in many hundreds of Trump supporters spending many years in prison.

For those of you who don't know, the first sitting of the Select Committee Hearing is now being broadcast live on TV. The evidence presented thus far is both fascinating and horrifying.
The irony is that there are thousands of hours of video from CCTV that isn't being released or allowed by the prosecution. What are they hiding? None of it is top secret or classified. It's all of areas that are open to the public.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
And did you see that lady at the end of the video brazenly brandishing two Big Gulps. They should just throw away the key for her!
Do you know how much high fructose corn syrup is in just one Big Gulp? It's enough to give a whale diabetes.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
No more than the burning and looting of the summer riots of 2020, no. One is directed at the federal government, the other at the basic civil institutions of policing and community trust and function. Both are absolutely integral to a functioning democracy. This is kinda obvious.

Had the Capitol attackers set cars on fire and burned buildings and looted stores to express their frustration, you'd have a much closer equivalency. Setting fire to police cars and burning a police station certainly inhibit the officers directly affected in doing their jobs, but backup is available, and the entire system of policing was in no way in danger of collapsing. Taking down all the police in the country wasn't even the immediate goal of the summer rioters, as any rational person would tell you that their resources were not capable of achieving that goal.

But the attack on the Capitol was not like that: our democracy, as expressed in the most important election in the country, that for president, was in danger of collapsing, had Pence and others been captured or kidnapped or worse, and it was entirely within the resources of those inside the Capitol to achieve that goal. It was mere circumstance, luck, and the actions of the authorities inside the Capitol on Jan. 6 that they didn't.
 

Furion

Well-known member
Had the Capitol attackers set cars on fire and burned buildings and looted stores to express their frustration, you'd have a much closer equivalency. Setting fire to police cars and burning a police station certainly inhibit the officers directly affected in doing their jobs, but backup is available, and the entire system of policing was in no way in danger of collapsing. Taking down all the police in the country wasn't even the immediate goal of the summer rioters, as any rational person would tell you that their resources were not capable of achieving that goal.

But the attack on the Capitol was not like that: our democracy, as expressed in the most important election in the country, that for president, was in danger of collapsing, had Pence and others been captured or kidnapped or worse, and it was entirely within the resources of those inside the Capitol to achieve that goal. It was mere circumstance, luck, and the actions of the authorities inside the Capitol on Jan. 6 that they didn't.
Collapsing?

Captured?

Oh my the imagination is working overtime.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
Collapsing?
This ignores my qualifier to "collapsing." I'm referring only to the democracy in the election of the POTUS. If Biden had not been certified as the president that day, the democratic election of president would have been in danger of collapsing, as many things not electing Biden as president could have happened. In our democracy the time of uncertainty in elections is before the certification at the state level (with one exception: Congress not accepting a state's electoral slate).
Captured?
Potentially bound with zip ties. I can direct you to a pic of the zip ties if you want.

Oh my the imagination is working overtime.
See above.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
Thanks. I still have the similar question, though; what occurrence or incident in 1886 do you refer to?
The swing states were in substantial doubt so Congress appointed a commission to resolve the issue. The Supreme Court refusing to hear some of these cases under threat of an incoming Biden ministration of being institutionally ripped shreds, is informative of nothing respecting the election legitimacy.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
The swing states were in substantial doubt so Congress appointed a commission to resolve the issue. The Supreme Court refusing to hear some of these cases under threat of an incoming Biden ministration of being institutionally ripped shreds, is informative of nothing respecting the election legitimacy.
I think you mean the election of 1876 between Hayes and Tilden. Moving forward on that basis, we had said this:
the goal of at least some of the folks inside the Capitol was to prevent the constitutional process of certifying the vote of the electoral college.
Which also would have been a constitutional process, just like it was a constitutional process in 1872.
The process in 1876 was constitutional. Congress appointed an Electoral Commission. Agreed?

Trump, Cruz, and whoever, could (and did) use constitutional processes to challenge the results of the 2020 election. Agreed?

The people who stormed the Capitol with weapons, occupied congressional chambers and congressional offices, and the like, were not using a constitutional process. Agreed?
 

Thistle

Well-known member
I think you mean the election of 1876 between Hayes and Tilden. Moving forward on that basis, we had said this:
The process in 1876 was constitutional. Congress appointed an Electoral Commission. Agreed?

Trump, Cruz, and whoever, could (and did) use constitutional processes to challenge the results of the 2020 election. Agreed?

The people who stormed the Capitol with weapons, occupied congressional chambers and congressional offices, and the like, were not using a constitutional process. Agreed?
I love it when we agree.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Had the Capitol attackers set cars on fire and burned buildings and looted stores to express their frustration, you'd have a much closer equivalency. Setting fire to police cars and burning a police station certainly inhibit the officers directly affected in doing their jobs, but backup is available, and the entire system of policing was in no way in danger of collapsing. Taking down all the police in the country wasn't even the immediate goal of the summer rioters, as any rational person would tell you that their resources were not capable of achieving that goal.

But the attack on the Capitol was not like that: our democracy, as expressed in the most important election in the country, that for president, was in danger of collapsing, had Pence and others been captured or kidnapped or worse, and it was entirely within the resources of those inside the Capitol to achieve that goal. It was mere circumstance, luck, and the actions of the authorities inside the Capitol on Jan. 6 that they didn't.
The point that some seem to be ignoring is that the FBI knew in advance that this was going to happen, and even though it was suggested that reinforcements be brought in, it still didn't happen. There was no danger of the election collapsing. They could have torched the Capitol and razed it to the ground and no one would have then just arbitrarily assumed that Biden was no longer going to be President.

If our current President is any indication, the election as well as the office is of no consequence whatsoever. You could nuke Washington DC leaving only Biden's press secretary to run the country and she'd do a superior job. Who wants to listen to sleepy Joe say much of anything when we can get an articulate and well thought out response in record time from his press secretary? Sleepy Joe is nothing more than a source of amusement for the unwashed masses.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
The point that some seem to be ignoring is that the FBI knew in advance that this was going to happen,
Not sure what "this" means exactly. Does it mean

the Jan. 6 rally?
the march to the Capitol?
the protest outside the Capitol?
entering the Capitol?
the push-back to those entering the Capitol?
entering the Senate Chambers and congressional offices?

and even though it was suggested that reinforcements be brought in, it still didn't happen. There was no danger of the election collapsing. They could have torched the Capitol and razed it to the ground and no one would have then just arbitrarily assumed that Biden was no longer going to be President.
"Arbitrarily assuming that Biden was no longer going to [become] president" is not the only unconstitutional way the election could have been changed. No one has a crystal ball.
If our current President is any indication, the election as well as the office is of no consequence whatsoever.
This seems equivalent to saying that you don't value having democratic elections in this country (regardless of who is president). Is that what you really wanted to say?

You could nuke Washington DC leaving only Biden's press secretary to run the country and she'd do a superior job. Who wants to listen to sleepy Joe say much of anything when we can get an articulate and well thought out response in record time from his press secretary? Sleepy Joe is nothing more than a source of amusement for the unwashed masses.
The issue with keeping democratic electoral processes has more significance than just what attaches to the current president.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Not sure what "this" means exactly. Does it mean

the Jan. 6 rally?
the march to the Capitol?
the protest outside the Capitol?
entering the Capitol?
the push-back to those entering the Capitol?
entering the Senate Chambers and congressional offices?

All of the above. Haven't you read the court documents yet? The FBI was orchestrating this fiasco. The ring leaders have yet to even be indicted because they're paid FBI informants. Again, this is in the court documents.
"Arbitrarily assuming that Biden was no longer going to [become] president" is not the only unconstitutional way the election could have been changed. No one has a crystal ball.
No one needs a crystal ball. They're all in on the same narrative. They're all reading from the same script regardless of what happens.
This seems equivalent to saying that you don't value having democratic elections in this country (regardless of who is president). Is that what you really wanted to say?

What I'm saying is what H.L. Mencken famously said which is that “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.”
The issue with keeping democratic electoral processes has more significance than just what attaches to the current president.
Not when the President is a puppet. Trump couldn't get anyone into his cabinet that wasn't approved by the swamp. He's a moron, but at least he could remember where he was and what he was doing. The point here is that anyone can be President of the US even a vegetable. Prop up Mr. Potato Head as President and no one will ever notice the difference because it's a blatant joke. The whole world is laughing themselves silly at this charade.

This is the type of President that is installed to watch over the destruction of a country.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Here's just a reminder of how deplorable these right wing extremist terrorists really are. Justice must be served. This behavior is simply incomprehensible.

Look at how brazenly these insurrectionists overwhelmed the Capitol Hill police.

Absolutely but your video wasn't showing the bad, so are you trying to be sarcastic about it or something.

I watched some of the hearing today on the news and I liked what the one cop who was still recovering from his wounds said when Liz Chaney asked him what he thought about Trump saying that there was a lot of love out there and he answered her, "and I am still trying to recover from all of the hugs and kisses.

He hit it right on the nail head by that statement and revealed just how absolutely foolish Trumps words were in saying there was a lot of love there.
 
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Towerwatchman

Active member
Here's just a reminder of how deplorable these right wing extremist terrorists really are. Justice must be served. This behavior is simply incomprehensible.

Look at how brazenly these insurrectionists overwhelmed the Capitol Hill police.

Let's compare. BLM = 250 + peaceful protest with over 2 billion dollars in damages. The Capitall some broken windows and doors, not one painting not one statue was defiled or damaged, no graffiti, no burning looting or murdering. And if we're going to use film from that day's events to argue that there were deplrables, then show all the film, not just what someone cherry pics. If this was BLM today Congress would be holding session under a FEMA tent. And they would have called it a peaceful protest.
 

Backup

Well-known member
Let's compare. BLM = 250 + peaceful protest with over 2 billion dollars in damages. The Capitall some broken windows and doors, not one painting not one statue was defiled or damaged, no graffiti, no burning looting or murdering. And if we're going to use film from that day's events to argue that there were deplrables, then show all the film, not just what someone cherry pics. If this was BLM today Congress would be holding session under a FEMA tent. And they would have called it a peaceful protest.
I take it you avoided watching the officer’s testimony today.
 
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