Just a reminder of how barbaric the insurrection on Jan 6th really was.

Towerwatchman

Active member
Here's just a reminder of how deplorable these right wing extremist terrorists really are. Justice must be served. This behavior is simply incomprehensible.

Look at how brazenly these insurrectionists overwhelmed the Capitol Hill police.

Question, why has there not been any Congressional hearings on the BLM riots. The 250 + peaceful riots that resulted in 2 billion dollars in damages. We could listen to the testimony of thousands of police officers as they explained how they felt doing those riots. The riots that were supported by the Democratic Party, the riots that the Democratic Party funded bail money for. This is nothing but Pelosi and the Democrats politicizing a demonstration to their advantage, in order to divert attention from the disastrous way they're running the country.
 

Deist

Active member
All of the arrests, five unnamed co-conspirators are still unindicted. Why? The small fry are still rotting away in jail, but the leaders are running free or in witness protection. Why? You think they didn't have any guns? Do you really think the FBI doesn't carry firearms?
It appears that the FBI has found the perpetrators. See the article below:

 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
The BLM/antifa were not peacefully protesting, and it went on for months and months. Burning down cities, pulling people out of their cars and beating them, destroying businesses. You want to equate that with Jan 6?
The number of peaceful protestors during the summer of 2020 out-numbered the violent ones by a large factor, just as they did at the Capitol.

I'm trying to do the opposite of equating the summer protests with Jan. 6.
 

Deist

Active member
They were local issues and not an attempt to overthrow American democracy.

They were protests against police violence.

Isn’t that obvious?
So, unarmed people with no written or verbal plan are going to "take over" the government how?
 

Towerwatchman

Active member
They were local issues and not an attempt to overthrow American democracy.

They were protests against police violence.

Isn’t that obvious?
250 + local issues would equal a national problem. And an attempt to overthrow the government that would be a stretch. The way you overthrow a government is to first take away their ability to fight, what the Marxist blm called defund the police. Now if you want to look at it under the microscope of local issues, one event in Washington would be a local issue. As to overthrowing the government, I don't believe I saw anybody carrying automatic weapons, shooting anybody, or the typical BLM burn Loot and murder happening at the Capitol.
For argument sake, let's say they took the capital and are occupying it today, would that equate to the government ceasing to exist today?

This is nothing but Pelosi and the Democrats including Biden and all his bunch politicizing a demonstration to their advantage. I wouldn't be surprised that in the next election you will see campaign ads on TV showing the demonstration at the Capitol and the narrator of the ad warning that this will be the outcome if the Republicans win.
 

Deist

Active member
250 + local issues would equal a national problem. And an attempt to overthrow the government that would be a stretch. The way you overthrow a government is to first take away their ability to fight, what the Marxist blm called defund the police. Now if you want to look at it under the microscope of local issues, one event in Washington would be a local issue. As to overthrowing the government, I don't believe I saw anybody carrying automatic weapons, shooting anybody, or the typical BLM burn Loot and murder happening at the Capitol.
For argument sake, let's say they took the capital and are occupying it today, would that equate to the government ceasing to exist today?

This is nothing but Pelosi and the Democrats including Biden and all his bunch politicizing a demonstration to their advantage. I wouldn't be surprised that in the next election you will see campaign ads on TV showing the demonstration at the Capitol and the narrator of the ad warning that this will be the outcome if the Republicans win.
You can bet on that. CNN and MSNBS will have their talking heads report on it 24/7
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
I've supplied them repeatedly. I think I may have even supplied them to this thread already. I know I supplied them in a few other threads.
When I searched online for "FBI unindicted co-conspirator jan 6" I saw nothing about a court. Without some sort of reference, there's not reason to accept what you say.

I'm happy to change my mind, but I need the links or some kind of reference: was it state court or federal court, etc.? And the devil will be in the details, see below.

These are claims that have been accepted by the court from the FBI. They are unidentified and unindicted co-conspirators. They are the one's who led the charge, coordinated this whole fiasco, and yet they're walking free while people who were calling for restraint are still in jail.
Here's one of those details: do you mean a document containing the claim has been accepted by the court, or a court has said that the claim is true?

Depends on what rules we're playing by. When anyone can vote without ID, then anyone should be able to board an airline without ID. We should all be allowed to drive without ID. If not, then the political process is a blatant joke.
I meant, do you support the principle IN GENERAL of democratic elections under the rule or law?

I'm not totally opposed to voter ID, but do you know that driving is not a right, whereas voting is? Think about how requirements for exercising a right has an automatic conflict that has to be balanced, whereas there are no conflicts between requirements and the non-existent right to drive.

I think the citizenry of the US should sit back and let their bloated useless government implode in on itself.
Great, but do you think we should do away with the Senate approving Cabinet appointments? In general?

Plenty. Every time I step outside the borders of the US, I'm constantly running into people from all over the world who point out what a joke the President is.
That is not a good basis to reach a conclusion. You can fall prey to confirmation bias without even knowing it. That's why there is an actual science behind polls. Here is one poll that doesn't agree with you.

Can you find some evidence that supports what you're saying? I'm happy to change my mind if you can support your claim.

This was the case with Bush Jr., Trump, and especially with Biden. There are a number of websites online that have daily programs spotlighting the idiocy of the Biden Presidency, but especially Biden himself.

You need evidence that the US is not experiencing economic and social success? The effects of hyperinflation are beginning to rear their ugly head, and yet Biden wants to pump a few more trillion dollars into his cronies' pockets. The economy has been imploding for over a decade, and after locking down the citizenry over a PCR test that the CDC now admits is useless, Biden still thinks the whole country should be vaccinated with an experimental gene therapy that has already killed more people than all vaccines in the last 30 years combined, and is useless against a corona virus that is mutating. Capital flight has been endemic for the last four or five decades. The manufacturing infrastructure has been gutted, and is never going to return. The top one tenth of one percent owns 80% of all real wealth in the world. The list of American cities that are worse than third world hell holes is growing daily. I don't know anyone who has any desire to ever set foot in Detroit, Chicago, New York City, Los Angeles, Seattle, San Francisco, etc. etc. etc. The standard of living in the US is falling as fast as the cost of living is rising. Civil Asset forfeiture rakes in billions annually from anyone dumb enough to carry over $500.00 cash in their wallet, and if you're opinion differs from the government's mainstream propaganda machine, you're cancelled, deplatformed, or banned from Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube immediately. These sites are all paid for with tax payer funded money from the government. What more evidence does one need to see this isn't your Grandparents country, or even really the same country your parents grew up in.

I don't know anyone outside the US who would ever want to live or even visit the US. I know people who refuse to book a flight that has a stop in the US. They all say the same thing. It's full of murderers, drug addicts, perverts, and a tyrannical government that imprisons more people than the rest of the world combined.

Take a trip outside the US sometime, and see if I'm not telling it exactly like it is. The US is well on its way to becoming a backwater and a byword for the rest of the world.

Your comments that this is something that I want or am pleased with are nothing less than trolling. I spent years working and driving throughout the US. I've seen these cities progressively sliding into the gutter. It's horrifying to watch the country I grew up in fall apart so rapidly. The roads, bridges, buildings etc. are all falling apart. It's pathetic.

Where's your evidence that the country is improving?
I never said the country is improving, and I never said it isn't. You are bringing up a lot of issues that are off-thread.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
Let's compare. BLM caused 2Billion in property damage. Just as you cannot unring a bell, you cannot un-destroy property once it has been destroyed.
True, but if a police car is set on fire, another one can be bought that is just as good as the old one. I"m not arguing for burning police cars. That's illegal.

Not for argument's sake let's say that the ones who entered that capital stayed and did not leave.
The problem is that we don't know that merely occupying the building was all they were going to do. People were shouting to hang Mike Pence, they had weapons that they were using against the police. What if Pence was killed accidentally? How does the winner of the election get certified by the Congress as the winner? These are questions that no democracy should be asking.
Would that have stopped the legal process of the Congress counting the electoral votes for the election of the highest office in the land, commonly referred to as the most powerful position on the planet, anywhere?
Their goal was to stop the steal, and if they had occupied the building and maintained that occupation, then they could have prevented the counting of the electoral college votes. What if they had destroyed the copies of the votes? We don't want the electoral process to be chaotic - we have a plan and laws that rule how elections, and how challenges to elections, need to go. Anything outside of that - especially for the most important election, that for president - is a great harm to the democracy and to the rule of law.

No. I believe someone there, probably a Republican, would have been smart enough to have moved Congress to another location and the count would have continued.
See above.
If the rioters were still occupying the building today, it would affect nothing, just as the Church is not a building but the people, the government is not a building but its members.
See above.
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
So if a President 'somehow' was not certified, the collapse would ensue.

If Washington was overrun by a tsunami the democrat election could have "collapsed."

If a Borg battleship blasted the capital, the democrat election could have collapsed.

So many things could have "collapsed" your dream Gus. I'm glad it worked out for you
I have no idea how to interpret what you're trying to say. Also, if you take issue with the word "collapse," then substitute anything similar.

Umm, in our democracy the uncertain time is before the vote.
Not at all. Challenges to the vote as initially counted are legal. See Florida in 2000 and Gore v Bush. Plenty of uncertainty after election day on that one.

I need me some zip tie pics. Do you have pics of colored ones? I like colors.
Not sure if you are serious in wanting those pics.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
Yes. Why didn't the Republicans start an investigation when they controlled the Senate in 2020? The first protests and riots happened at the end of March 2020.
They didn't start one because they only complained about the BLM riots when it became politically expedient.
 

Towerwatchman

Active member
True, but if a police car is set on fire, another one can be bought that is just as good as the old one. I"m not arguing for burning police cars. That's illegal

Your comparison to the negative of burning looting and murder was the stopping of the count. The count would have continued regardless if the Capitol was occupied or not. 2 billion dollars in damages are irriversible. You cannot compare the two.


The problem is that we don't know that merely occupying the building was all they were going to do. People were shouting to hang Mike Pence, they had weapons that they were using against the police. What if Pence was killed accidentally? How does the winner of the election get certified by the Congress as the winner? These are questions that no democracy should be asking.
That's all hypothetical. Pence was not hung, no one was carrying automatic weapons, nor any weapon that could be used to sucessfully overthrow the government. But let's say pence was hung, the count would have continued. It's in the founding documents Pence would have been replaced.
Their goal was to stop the steal, and if they had occupied the building and maintained that occupation, then they could have prevented the counting of the electoral college votes.
Again all you have to do is move the Congressional body to another location and account continues
What if they had destroyed the copies of the votes?
If we had copies then that equates the originals are somewhere else. The count continues.
We don't want the electoral process to be chaotic - we have a plan and laws that rule how elections, and how challenges to elections, need to go. Anything outside of that - especially for the most important election, that for president - is a great harm to the democracy and to the rule of law.
I agree, we want a peaceful transition of power. Every four years we have a revolution, a peaceful transition of power, with no violence. I come from a country where elections is settled with guns. Never want to see that here. But you have a serious problem, half of the people that voted believe that their election was stolen are being ignored.
If I was in Biden's position I would have allowed the investigations to take place, to settle this issue once and for all. Think about it if we had allow the investigation to go through and found Trump to be a liar we would not be discussing this today, and Trump's reputation would have been tarnished. Politics is a chess game, if I would have won an election fairly, and my opposition who is still a danger to me claims that I cheated I would expose him as a liar and tarnish him and his political party. If I cheated , I would do everything possible to stop any audit.
See above.

See above.
 

Towerwatchman

Active member
Yes. Why didn't the Republicans start an investigation when they controlled the Senate in 2020? The first protests and riots happened at the end of March
I would not know the answer to that we would have to ask the Republicans. That does not change the fact that the BLM riots were a bigger threat to our country , caused the most property damage and loss of life compared to the Capitol protest . But we could ask Pelosi and the Democrats since their motivation for the capital Riot hearings was the danger to the country , why are there no B L M investigations? Logically the biggest threat should have been addressed.

But as politics goes politicians will side with whoever has the greater number of votes. Politically, it was a bad move to investigate during the riots. Plus that would have added fuel to the fire.

Its intent prior to contact. Pelosi and the Democrats are not investigating the capital riots because it is the biggest Danger since the Civil War, they're using it for political purposes, to hold it against the Republicans and any Republican candidate in the future.
 

Backup

Well-known member
250 + local issues would equal a national problem. And an attempt to overthrow the government that would be a stretch. The way you overthrow a government is to first take away their ability to fight, what the Marxist blm called defund the police. Now if you want to look at it under the microscope of local issues, one event in Washington would be a local issue. As to overthrowing the government, I don't believe I saw anybody carrying automatic weapons, shooting anybody, or the typical BLM burn Loot and murder happening at the Capitol.
For argument sake, let's say they took the capital and are occupying it today, would that equate to the government ceasing to exist today?

This is nothing but Pelosi and the Democrats including Biden and all his bunch politicizing a demonstration to their advantage. I wouldn't be surprised that in the next election you will see campaign ads on TV showing the demonstration at the Capitol and the narrator of the ad warning that this will be the outcome if the Republicans win.
The whataboutism from the insurrection apologists just sounds desperate.

If Republicans didn’t want thier violent insurrection used against them in campaign ads, they shouldn’t have done it.
 

Towerwatchman

Active member
The whataboutism from the insurrection apologists just sounds desperate.

If Republicans didn’t want thier violent insurrection used against them in campaign ads, they shouldn’t have done it.
Why do you make false accusations? I don't believe I ever saw a video where any Republican or Republican leader tell the crowd to rush the capital or break into the capital.
 

Furion

Well-known member
I have no idea how to interpret what you're trying to say. Also, if you take issue with the word "collapse," then substitute anything similar.
Nah, your words are what got us here.
Not at all. Challenges to the vote as initially counted are legal. See Florida in 2000 and Gore v Bush. Plenty of uncertainty after election day on that one.


Not sure if you are serious in wanting those pics.
Challenges are perfectly legal at any time, y'all challenged Trump for four years, on everything. Even his hand size triggered you snowflakes.

Just suck it up man. If the truth is on your side, you'll not act like you have something to hide. Like Nancy.

But you can't admit it's a rank partisan witch hunt, and that's ok, people will point it out to you.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
I don't believe I ever saw a video where any Republican or Republican leader tell the crowd to rush the capital or break into the capital.
I don't believe those are requirements for a charge of having instigated a violent insurrection. You're welcome to point me to case law that says/rules otherwise, though...
 
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