Just one-third of U.S. Catholics agree with their church that Eucharist is body, blood of Christ

balshan

Well-known member
The name of this forum is "Roman Catholicism." That should be the subject of the conversation. I suggest we discuss the issues, not each other or other posters.


Really? Christianity cares about RC posters and what they say, while Catholicism cares about the teachings of their church? Then I'm glad I'm in the group I'm in.
No we care about the truth and true Christianity being shown and your institution which is seen as Christian is not and its actions are not Christian. Words have no value if the actions do not match the words. The RCC words and actions do not match. That is called hypocrisy.

If you only cared about what your institution taught then you would not be here but only on RC sites.
 

balshan

Well-known member
IMO, not so well as you think.
IMO your are very, very wrong. I have yet to be shown where my knowledge on the RCC was wrong. I did make a statement and an RC said I was wrong but then I copied the catechism which showed I was right. He was a gentleman and said sorry. We ex RCs know it very well. Years of RC schooling taught us. We were not poor students, the nuns were not bad teachers as most RCs like to imply. But actions speak louder than words and it does not matter how much you want to pin your hat on the teachings and ignore the actions that is not a scriptural stance. I must be honest I prefer knowing God's word to the catechism.

As I posted elsewhere:

Peter would not accept the RCC leaders or their teachings and their actions show clearly who they follow.

2 Peter 3:14+

14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

We know that most RCs find the scriptures hard to understand. They also are ignorant of most of the writings of Peter and Paul.

Peter also describes your wolves:

2 Peter 2

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Col 2:8

See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.

This describe your institution how often have some RCs posted about philosophy and human traditions to support the false pagan practices like praying to the dead.

Gal 1:6+

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

Yes the RCs have left Jesus behind Mary. We know the leaders are disguised as mini Christ's by what they like to call themselves and then their actions show their true colours.

Matt 7:15-20

“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.


Yes we have all seen the fruit of the RCC throughout the centuries and it is not good fruit, it is rotten and diseased.
 

ziapueblo

Active member

Transubstantiation – the idea that during Mass, the bread and wine used for Communion become the body and blood of Jesus Christ – is central to the Catholic faith. Indeed, the Catholic Church teaches that “the Eucharist is ‘the source and summit of the Christian life.’”

But a new Pew Research Center survey finds that most self-described Catholics don’t believe this core teaching. In fact, nearly seven-in-ten Catholics (69%) say they personally believe that during Catholic Mass, the bread and wine used in Communion “are symbols of the body and blood of Jesus Christ.” Just one-third of U.S. Catholics (31%) say they believe that “during Catholic Mass, the bread and wine actually become the body and blood of Jesus.”

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There is hope. Most Catholics see through this false teaching........
This is a shame and the fault of the Bishops (my opinion as an Eastern Orthodox Christian). Most, unfortunately, stay silent and allow Catholic politicians to receive the Eucharist even though they support ungodly acts such as abortion. Fr. Josiah Trenham has a great video on this:

 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
You know what's funny RPO? In all our exchanges, you have repeatedly called me a Protestant because I adhere to what the Catholic Church has taught for 1960 years.

Yes I have. But I have since reconsidered my attitude towards you. This isn't to say that I agree with you, it is to say that on this site, we are not enemies.
What you have written above is probably the most Protestant thing anyone on this forum has ever written.

What? That Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation? That Jesus Christ is essential to salvation? That is Protestant? Sir, that is very Catholic. It is statements like you just wrote that is exactly the stumbling block to the Protestants on this site. It is why they cannot see that Catholicism magnifies Christ.
Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, founded a visible, hierarchical society to teach, rule and sanctify man. The Catholic Church has always taught that it is the one true Church, outside of which there is no salvation, because it alone has the means of sanctifying man.

Yes: outside the Church there is no salvation. Saying that is one thing. Saying that the Church is limited solely to the visible boundaries and the institutional aspects of Church of Rome and those in communion with her, something all together different.

You explicitly deny this with your above statement.

No I don't. Those who know Christ, by definition must be part of the Church because Christ is the head of the Church. Whether they are in union with Rome is a different question.
The Protestants you debate with on this forum show an absolute contempt for the Catholic Church, for the papacy, and for the idea of an infallible, indefectible and authoritative Church. They show a contempt for the sacraments, the Mass and the Holy Eucharist. They show a contempt for the necessity of the confession of sins and absolution from a priest, and a contempt for the priesthood itself. They especially show a contempt for, and I would even say a hatred toward, the Blessed Virgin Mary and the veneration of the saints.

I take a view that gives the majority of Protestants on this site the benefit of the doubt. In other words--I take the view that the Protestants on this site show contempt for a straw man, a caricature of the Church they have been taught. This includes former Catholics. Why do I take this view? Because whatever the Protestants think about Catholicism, they love the Scriptures, they love Christ and they seek Truth. No one that takes the Scriptures seriously, loves Christ and cares about His Truth could truly hate Catholicism. The Protestants on this site do not truly know what they are rejecting when they reject Catholicism--thus--I can have sympathy for them. I do not hate them, I pity them; they are blind and deaf to the beauty of Catholicism.
But according to you, none of this is necessary. All you have to do is have is a belief in Christ, whatever that means. I have encountered many a Protestant, even on this forum, who deny the divinity of Christ.
Of course it is necessary; not in the absolute sense. Without the Catholic Church there could be no Protestantism. Without the Catholic Church there could be creed, no baptism, no nothing.

Protestants only are what they are because of Catholicism. If the RCC falls, Protestantism goes with it. Of course Protestants would disagree with this but that is neither here nor there. It doesn't change the fact that Protestantism depends on Catholicism.
You are as Protestant as any other Protestant on this forum.
Having grown up half Protestant, as you well know, I never developed the appreciation for the ritualistic aspects of our Faith, the Roman death chants, statues, stained glass, art, etc. That I will grant. But that does not make me Protestant.
Like your Conclilar sect and like all the other Protestants on this forum, you deny the De Fide dogma of extra Ecclesiam nulla salus which has been the consistent teaching of the Catholic Church from the beginning.

Yes it has. I do not deny it. What I deny is what you have made it in to.
Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Bull Cantate Domino, 1442, ex cathedra: "The holy Roman Church, founded on the words of our Lord and Savior, firmly believes, professes and preaches one true God, almighty, immutable and eternal, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Therefore it [the Holy Roman Church] condemns, rejects, anathematizes and declares to be outside the Body of Christ, which is the Church, whoever holds opposing or contrary views.”
Yes it does. Outside the Church there is no salvation. That does not entail the Church is limited to the visible boundaries of the Roman Catholic Communion in which the Church of Christ subsists.
 

balshan

Well-known member
This is a shame and the fault of the Bishops (my opinion as an Eastern Orthodox Christian). Most, unfortunately, stay silent and allow Catholic politicians to receive the Eucharist even though they support ungodly acts such as abortion. Fr. Josiah Trenham has a great video on this:



Maybe they believe those people will be cleansed by the partaking of communion.

One of the greatest blessings and least known facts about the Eucharist is that, in the reception of holy Communion, a person’s venial sins are forgiven.
The Eucharist is one of four sacraments that imparts the forgiveness of sins.

A person with venial sins is still in the state of grace, and he or she is not only eligible to receive holy Communion, but also is encouraged to receive holy Communion. Then, when we receive the Eucharist, “Holy Communion separates us from sin … the Eucharist cannot unite us to Christ without at the same time cleansing us from past sins” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 1393). When Jesus comes to us in the Eucharist, he wipes away our venial sins (see No. 1394).


 

ziapueblo

Active member
Maybe they believe those people will be cleansed by the partaking of communion.
In the Orthodox Church, the presbyter or deacon say this while distributing the Eucharist to parishioners, "The servant of God receives the Body and Blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life." That being said, the Orthodox Church believes one should have a good conscious before receiving.
 

balshan

Well-known member
In the Orthodox Church, the presbyter or deacon say this while distributing the Eucharist to parishioners, "The servant of God receives the Body and Blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sins and eternal life." That being said, the Orthodox Church believes one should have a good conscious before receiving.
Hmm I have been in non orthodox church and they say before the communion.

1 Cor 11

So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

The focus was on being prepared.
 

balshan

Well-known member
I do not see the symbolic in verse in John 6:51 because no one there at the time saw it as symbolic, including Jesus. That's why "it is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?"

Symbolism is easy. Other wise most of your church would walk out whenever it was taught.
If it was true, they would not walk out whenever it was taught but it is not true. But it is not true, it is false. You do not see the difference between symbolic and literal. You are just repeating the false teachings ad nauseum and it will not change the fact that wolves cannot teach the truth.

1 Titus 1

15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

We know God does not change and if evil touched them physically in his glorified state which Jesus is now in, they would drop down dead. Even lying to the Holy Spirit meant people dropped down dead.
 
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