Just punishment for sin.

SteveB

Well-known member
A poster had commented on another OP

Post in thread 'Good News for Non-Christians' https://forums.carm.org/threads/good-news-for-non-christians.3941/post-259551

Does that mean only people who have lived bad lives; rapists and murderers, etc.? Or does it mean anyone who does not worship God, i.e., breaking that first command? Or does it mean everyone - most Christians say everyone deserves to go to hell. There is a huge scope in this statement.
Among others.

According to Revelation 21:8 the following people will be handed their hat, and shown the door to the lake of fire, where they will spend their eternity. 20 octillion millennia.... not even a picosecond of eternity. After 500 octillion millennia, you haven't even started eternity. Literally a never ending existence of misery.

Rev 21:8 WEB But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Essentially, everyone who told God where he could go, and responded with a no to his invitation to come spend their eternity with him.



Right, so what you mean is God will be torturing everyone who fails to worship him. You wrap it up as "deserve", but that is what it comes down to. Anyone failing to worship God "deserves" to get tortured by him.
This is a very simple concept.
People who refuse to worship God want nothing to do with him.
As eternity with God will be a life where we actually want to be with God, and live a lifestyle that honors him, I find myself wondering what you think is taking place.

You clearly resent the idea that your choices will one day be judged by God.

What you appear to trip over constantly is that God has explicitly stated that he is ready, able and willing to wipe out the record of your sin against him.
Literally, wipe the slate clean.
Just come to Jesus, and follow him and as it's written in psalm 103, your sin will be cast as far as the east is from the west.

You'll be welcomed by God with open arms, adopted as a child, and made new, on the inside, where it actually matters, and he'll make sure that you make it to eternity with him.

So.... yes, you will be judged by God for telling him no thanks.
What you fail to grasp is that to welcome you to spend your eternity with him, when you want nothing to do with him would be even worse than you spending your eternity in the lake of fire.

Why?

God's nature is so pure, that we read in Revelation 20, when the great white throne judgment is set, and everyone who refused to place their trust in Jesus comes before God,

Rev 20:11 WEB I saw a great white throne, and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. There was found no place for them.

Sin cannot enter the presence of God. It's worse than a burning branding iron on the flesh. A searing, unquenchable agony that results in a need to flee from him as quickly as possible and then some! And there's no escape from this.

This is exactly why Jesus came. To pay the penalty for all sin. Except the sin of unbelief. That's unforgivable.

Thus, if you tell God no, he'll honor your request and let you go into eternity separated from him.

Not because he wants to torture you. But because you don't want to know him.

He's got eternity all planned out, and will spend eternity showing the greatness of his love, grace, and magnificence to us.

So, you have to ask yourself this question....

Is winning an argument with God really worth sending yourself to the lake of fire for eternity?

He's given us everything we need to know him and live a life that honors him.

You choose.


There are no excuses. What do you actually want for yourself?
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
According to Revelation 21:8 the following people will be handed their hat, and shown the door to the lake of fire, where they will spend their eternity. 20 octillion millennia.... not even a picosecond of eternity. After 500 octillion millennia, you haven't even started eternity. Literally a never ending existence of misery.
And you think it is right to worship the sadistic monster who engineered a system for causing "Literally a never ending existence of misery" for billions of people?

I get that you are saying that God is figuratively holding a gun to our heads, saying worship God or he will torture you for eternity, but I just do not understand how you can love such an entity.

Rev 21:8 WEB But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Essentially, everyone who told God where he could go, and responded with a no to his invitation to come spend their eternity with him.

Everyone who choses not to toad up to a sadistic monster who tortures billions basically.

This is a very simple concept.
People who refuse to worship God want nothing to do with him.
As eternity with God will be a life where we actually want to be with God, and live a lifestyle that honors him, I find myself wondering what you think is taking place.
See, I just cannot do that. How could I want to be with someone who be torturing billions of people even while I am with him.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
You clearly resent the idea that your choices will one day be judged by God.

What you appear to trip over constantly is that God has explicitly stated that he is ready, able and willing to wipe out the record of your sin against him.
Literally, wipe the slate clean.
Just come to Jesus, and follow him and as it's written in psalm 103, your sin will be cast as far as the east is from the west.
To be clear, when you say sin, you mean failing to worship God, right?

That is what it comes down down. God will ignore everything else. Worship God, and he wipes the slate clear; he will turn a blind eye to anything else you have done. Fail to worship God, and, well, you commit a sin against his greatest command, to love him.

That is to say, this judgement by God comes down to him saying: Do you love me?

If the answer is yes, you go to paradise. If the answer is no, you go to "Literally a never ending existence of misery". There is no moral judgement here. You could spend your life helping other people, or you could be a serial rapist and slave owner. It does not matter one jot to God's judgement; all he cares about is if you love him.

So, yes, absolutely I resent that I will be judged by God on that basis. And because I resent it, I could never love such a narcissistic, sadistic entity. And because I could never love such a narcissistic, sadistic entity, I am condemned to "Literally a never ending existence of misery". And so my resentment deepens.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
According to Revelation 21:8 the following people will be handed their hat, and shown the door to the lake of fire, where they will spend their eternity. 20 octillion millennia.... not even a picosecond of eternity. After 500 octillion millennia, you haven't even started eternity. Literally a never ending existence of misery.
God is love, but he is still going to torture billions in "Literally a never ending existence of misery."

Because the Christian concept of "love" is utterly divorced from the normal understanding of the word.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
Book, chapter and verse, please.
I was responding to the OP claim that those who fail to worship God will be sent to "Literally a never ending existence of misery."

I have a feeling you believe the torture is for a finite length of time, so perhaps you disagree with Steve. I also suspect you choose to re-define torture so as to exclude causing pain for punishment. I am using the definition on Google:

the action or practice of inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something.

Under that definition, God punishing people by inflicting suffering, whether for eternity or a finite time, is torture.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
I was responding to the OP claim that those who fail to worship God will be sent to "Literally a never ending existence of misery."

I have a feeling you believe the torture is for a finite length of time, so perhaps you disagree with Steve. I also suspect you choose to re-define torture so as to exclude causing pain for punishment. I am using the definition on Google:

the action or practice of inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something.

Under that definition, God punishing people by inflicting suffering, whether for eternity or a finite time, is torture.

So you can't scripturally support your claim that God tortures people.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
I suppose you're not one of the elect. You seem to be annoyed that you have not been chosen....as demonstrated by your bitter attitude.
I'm not one of the Avengers either, and I'm about equally annoyed and bitter about that, which is to say not at all. I think you might be reading things into my post that just aren't there.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
And you think it is right to worship the sadistic monster who engineered a system for causing "Literally a never ending existence of misery" for billions of people?
I think it's important to learn to understand what is actually taking place so I can have an accurate perspective for the purpose of having the most beneficial response to Him.
I would have thought that you would want this same thing too.


I get that you are saying that God is figuratively holding a gun to our heads, saying worship God or he will torture you for eternity, but I just do not understand how you can love such an entity.
You can indeed view it in that manner. It's not going to help you resolve your problem.

Your problem being that your sin is killing you and you don't believe it.
So, it seems to me that you have to ask yourself what you actually want.
Do you want death? Is that your goal? Do you actually want to commit suicide when YHVH is offering you life?
He's ready, able and willing to exchange your false beliefs and sin for accurate and truth-filled understanding and take your sin on himself.


Everyone who choses not to toad up to a sadistic monster who tortures billions basically.
It's your eternity.
Those who go to hell and then the Lake of Fire do so because they rejected the fact that he paid the price for our sin.
So, you belief is in error.


See, I just cannot do that. How could I want to be with someone who be torturing billions of people even while I am with him.
It's about God forgiving our sin against him. If you don't want your sin forgiven, then you want to spend your eternity separated from him. And he'll give you exactly what you want.

You are the one who is sending themselves to the place of torture.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
To be clear, when you say sin, you mean failing to worship God, right?
According to 1 John 3, sin is lawlessness.
All sin results from having, and believing a wrong and inaccurate view of YHVH and his nature.


That is what it comes down down. God will ignore everything else. Worship God, and he wipes the slate clear; he will turn a blind eye to anything else you have done.
A false view.

Jesus dying for you is not YHVH turning a blind eye to your past.

YHVH takes everything you have ever done and places it on Jesus. Jesus received all the sin of the entire human race throughout all history.
Every single wrong ever done, against YHVH, against your fellow humans, every injury, injustice, crime, etc...... Jesus took them all on himself to save you from experiencing the consequences of your sin.


Fail to worship God, and, well, you commit a sin against his greatest command, to love him.
Failing to worship YHVH is the result of choosing to have a false view of him, and his nature.

Why would he force you to do something you don't want to do?


That is to say, this judgement by God comes down to him saying: Do you love me?
And?
Those of us who have met him have found him infinitely loving, and worthy of our love in response to the love he's demonstrated through Jesus Christ.

If the answer is yes, you go to paradise. If the answer is no, you go to "Literally a never ending existence of misery".
It's entirely your choice.
There is no moral judgement here. You could spend your life helping other people, or you could be a serial rapist and slave owner. It does not matter one jot to God's judgement; all he cares about is if you love him.
And 99.9999999999999999999999999% of people are somewhere in the middle.
So, as God seeks to save those who are lost, because they sinned against him, he gave his only begotten son to take our place in judgment due sin.
By continuing to profess your own righteousness, you make yourself superior to your creator.

Isa 64:6 WEB For we have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteousness is like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.​

Rom 3:3-30 WEB 3 For what if some were without faith? Will their lack of faith nullify the faithfulness of God? 4 May it never be! Yes, let God be found true, but every man a liar. As it is written, “that you might be justified in your words, and might prevail when you come into judgment.” 5 But if our unrighteousness commends the righteousness of God, what will we say? Is God unrighteous who inflicts wrath? I speak like men do. 6 May it never be! For then how will God judge the world? 7 For if the truth of God through my lie abounded to his glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? 8 Why not (as we are slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say), “Let’s do evil, that good may come?” Those who say so are justly condemned. 9 What then? Are we better than they? No, in no way. For we previously warned both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10 As it is written, “There is no one righteous; no, not one. 11 There is no one who understands. There is no one who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned away. They have together become unprofitable. There is no one who does good, no, not so much as one.” 13 “Their throat is an open tomb. With their tongues they have used deceit.” “The poison of vipers is under their lips.” 14 “Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.” 15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood. 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways. 17 The way of peace, they haven’t known.” 18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” 19 Now we know that whatever things the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be closed, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God. 20 Because by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified in his sight; for through the law comes the knowledge of sin. 21 But now apart from the law, a righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all and on all those who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God sent to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God’s forbearance; 26 to demonstrate his righteousness at this present time; that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 We maintain therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Isn’t he the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith, and the uncircumcised through faith.​

So, yes, absolutely I resent that I will be judged by God on that basis. And because I resent it, I could never love such a narcissistic, sadistic entity. And because I could never love such a narcissistic, sadistic entity, I am condemned to "Literally a never ending existence of misery". And so my resentment deepens.
As will your condemnation and the wrath that is the result of your sin.

You are literally committing suicide by rejecting Jesus.

Your condemnation is nobody else's fault but your own.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
God is love, but he is still going to torture billions in "Literally a never ending existence of misery."

Because the Christian concept of "love" is utterly divorced from the normal understanding of the word.
Anyone who is married, and is a parent is quite acquainted with the biblical definition of love.
Based on your comment, I'd say that it's you who has a false view of what love is.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
I think it's important to learn to understand what is actually taking place so I can have an accurate perspective for the purpose of having the most beneficial response to Him.
I would have thought that you would want this same thing too.
I agree, and from my own studies, I think Christianity is wrong. However, for the sake of argument, I will suppose you are right, and that God tortures those who do not love him for eternity.

You can indeed view it in that manner. It's not going to help you resolve your problem.
I never said it would resolve anything. It is just reframing what you are claiming to make clear what sort of God you love.

Have I got it wrong? Does God not torture people for eternity? I do not see you denying that. You seem to accept that you God tortures people for eternity, and just object to him being called on it.

Your problem being that your sin is killing you and you don't believe it.
Correct, I do not. A big part of that is the vast discrepancy between "God is love" and God is a sadistic ego maniac who will torture you for eternity of you fail to love him.

I see you are also unable to reconcile those two extremes.

So, it seems to me that you have to ask yourself what you actually want.
What an odd way to approach determining if a claim is true or not.

Do you want death? Is that your goal? Do you actually want to commit suicide when YHVH is offering you life?
He's ready, able and willing to exchange your false beliefs and sin for accurate and truth-filled understanding and take your sin on himself.
The problem I have - besides not believing God exists - is I cannot love an entity that tortures billions for eternity.

How do you do it Steve? Do you turn a blind eye to the suffering of others?

It's your eternity.
Those who go to hell and then the Lake of Fire do so because they rejected the fact that he paid the price for our sin.
So, you belief is in error.
So I am wrong because I will be tortured for eternity? Is this what passes for reasoning among Christians?

See, this is my other problem. I do not believe Christianity because it does not make sense, and when Christians say believe us or you will suffer for eternity, without actually offering any evidence or reasoning, that reinforces my belief that it is just nonsense.

It's about God forgiving our sin against him.
It is about God torturing us forever if we do not love him.

And Christians insisting "God is love".

If you don't want your sin forgiven, then you want to spend your eternity separated from him. And he'll give you exactly what you want.
You are the one who is sending themselves to the place of torture.
No one wants to go to a place of torture. That is God's choice, not mine.

God is choosing to send me to a place of eternal torture. God is choosing to torture me and billions of others, all of whom would choose not to be tortured. God is all powerful; he could choose to send me somewhere I do not get tortured, or just make me cease to exist. With God all things are possible. If I end up in eternal torture, it is against my wishes and it is according to God's wishes.

Every person suffering in hell is suffering because God has made a choice to torture them.

You can twist the words all you like, but that what your religion insists is true.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
According to 1 John 3, sin is lawlessness.
All sin results from having, and believing a wrong and inaccurate view of YHVH and his nature.
It does not matter what sin is.

All that God judges us on is whether we love and worship him. If you do, you go to heaven. If not, you go to hell.

That is it. It is unrelated to how moral you are, there is no justice.

A false view.

Jesus dying for you is not YHVH turning a blind eye to your past.

YHVH takes everything you have ever done and places it on Jesus. Jesus received all the sin of the entire human race throughout all history.
Every single wrong ever done, against YHVH, against your fellow humans, every injury, injustice, crime, etc...... Jesus took them all on himself to save you from experiencing the consequences of your sin.
Blah, blah, blah. The end result is the same.

All that God judges us on is whether we love and worship him. If you do, you go to heaven. If not, you go to hell.

Failing to worship YHVH is the result of choosing to have a false view of him, and his nature.
Christianity tells me he tortures for eternity billions of people. Do I have a false view of him and his nature?

Why would he force you to do something you don't want to do?
You tell me. You are the one who believes he will punish those who fail to worship him by torturing them for eternity.

And?
Those of us who have met him have found him infinitely loving, and worthy of our love in response to the love he's demonstrated through Jesus Christ.
And yet you assure me he tortures people with "Literally a never ending existence of misery".

Those are your words. How do you reconcile "infinitely loving" with "Literally a never ending existence of misery"? A very warped view of what love is, I guess.

It's entirely your choice.
Sure... Except if I choose wrong I get "Literally a never ending existence of misery".

And 99.9999999999999999999999999% of people are somewhere in the middle.
Obviously, given I chose two extremes.

So, as God seeks to save those who are lost, because they sinned against him, he gave his only begotten son to take our place in judgment due sin.
By telling us to worship him or lese suffer "Literally a never ending existence of misery"?

By continuing to profess your own righteousness, you make yourself superior to your creator.
I have never, and would never, cause "Literally a never ending existence of misery" to anyone, so, yes, I think I am more righteous than him. I am not saying I am special in that regard; I think that that is also true of most people.

As will your condemnation and the wrath that is the result of your sin.
So to be clear, this "Literally a never ending existence of misery" is due to him being angry I am not worshiping him.

You are literally committing suicide by rejecting Jesus.
I cannot help it. I cannot love someone who causes "Literally a never ending existence of misery" to billions of people.

Anyone who is married, and is a parent is quite acquainted with the biblical definition of love.
Based on your comment, I'd say that it's you who has a false view of what love is.
I am both a parent and a husband, and I cannot imagine wanting to cause "Literally a never ending existence of misery" to either my wife or my children, even when they annoy me. The love I feel for them is of a very different nature to the supposed "love" God feels for me.

Have you ever felt like giving your wife or kids "Literally a never ending existence of misery" Steve? Are you like God? Or like me?
 

Gus Bovona

Well-known member
People who refuse to worship God want nothing to do with him.

You're missing a logical possibility; that is, someone who doesn't want nothing to do with God, but doesn't want to worship him, either. Otherwise, you have an all-or-nothing situation, but other possibilities exist.
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
If that's the case, why do you keep coming up so empty-handed in providing scriptural support?
I said Christianity, not scripture; there are some important differences (but that would be for another thread).

The OP is a Christian, and he says people who do not worship God go to ""Literally a never ending existence of misery."
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I agree, and from my own studies, I think Christianity is wrong.
The question that comes to my mind is--
Which version of christianity are you talking about?
I didn't come to christianity. I grew up in a church. It was filled with people who were better than me, and acted like it. It was also filled with people worse than I was, and acted like they were better than me.

Years later I came to Jesus. Not an institution, but the Man, Jesus Christ.

So, if you have a problem with Jesus, then there's no hope for you.

If however you have a problem with a religious organization, then I'll simply say-

Stop looking at the institution and focus on Jesus himself.

However, for the sake of argument, I will suppose you are right, and that God tortures those who do not love him for eternity.
You keep twisting what I've been repeatedly saying since 2012.
At which point, you have a bias, and preconception problem.
And they're not going to help you resolve the problem here.
Or is that your goal? To make matters worse for yourself, while appearing to others to have a superior attitude?

I never said it would resolve anything. It is just reframing what you are claiming to make clear what sort of God you love.
Ah. So you actually WANT to murder yourself, while making others think you're martyring yourself in a worthy cause.
Ok.
False beliefs still kill, without any recourse.

Have I got it wrong?
Yes. You do. Deadly wrong!

Does God not torture people for eternity?
Nope. Those who go to hell, and the lake of fire choose to.
God gave his only begotten son that whosoever would believe him will not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn you, but that through him you may be saved.

I do not see you denying that.
You look pretty clear that you are twisting what I've been saying for the past 8-1/2 years.
Do you actually think that believing lies is going to justify your beliefs, and actions?

You seem to accept that you God tortures people for eternity, and just object to him being called on it.
You clearly believe that.
Do you actually think that your claiming that is going to prevent you from experiencing the consequences for your own bias and preconceptions about sin, and judgment on sin?

This is like saying that you driving into the wall at 90 mph and dying is your dad's fault, and he was going to force you to drive into the wall at 90 mph because he warned you that you would die if you drove into the wall at 90 mph.

The only person you're deceiving is you.

Correct, I do not.
Then you should stop talking about ideas you don't actually understand, and start learning the truth.

A big part of that is the vast discrepancy between "God is love" and God is a sadistic ego maniac who will torture you for eternity of you fail to love him.
Only if your dad is to blame for warning you about the dangers of driving your vehicle into the wall at 90 mph.

I see you are also unable to reconcile those two extremes.
I'm not the one who keeps saying falsehoods to justify sending themselves to an eternity of misery.

What an odd way to approach determining if a claim is true or not.
I'm not the one who keeps saying lies to justify sending themselves to an eternity of misery.

The problem I have - besides not believing God exists - is I cannot love an entity that tortures billions for eternity.
As stated above, YHVH doesn't torture billions of people for eternity.
Those people who reject Jesus are torturing themselves for eternity.
It's known as suicide.

How do you do it Steve?

I take the time to learn the truth and don't keep telling myself and others lies to make me appear better than you.

Do you turn a blind eye to the suffering of others?
Nope. You obviously do though.
You'd rather see yourself and billions of other people suffering for an eternity than free them to live in paradise which is designed explicitly with them in mind.

So I am wrong because I will be tortured for eternity?
You are wrong because you believe wrong things about YHVH.

Is this what passes for reasoning among Christians?
It's clearly what passes for reasoning with you.
See, this is my other problem. I do not believe Christianity because it does not make sense, and when Christians say believe us or you will suffer for eternity, without actually offering any evidence or reasoning, that reinforces my belief that it is just nonsense.
This is the problem. You keep talking about an institution and not a person.
Jesus did say,
Happy are those who are not scandalized by me.

Isaiah tells us

Isa 30:15 WEB For thus said the Lord Yahweh, the Holy One of Israel, “You will be saved in returning and rest. Your strength will be in quietness and in confidence.” You refused,

We read elsewhere in Isaiah

Isa 6:9-10 WEB 9 He said, “Go, and tell this people, ‘You hear indeed, but don’t understand. You see indeed, but don’t perceive.’ 10 Make the heart of this people fat. Make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and turn again, and be healed.”

Isa 28:14-17 WEB 14 Therefore hear Yahweh’s word, you scoffers, that rule this people in Jerusalem: 15 “Because you have said, ‘We have made a covenant with death, and we are in agreement with Sheol. When the overflowing scourge passes through, it won’t come to us; for we have made lies our refuge, and we have hidden ourselves under falsehood.’” 16 Therefore the Lord Yahweh says, “Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious cornerstone of a sure foundation. He who believes shall not act hastily. 17 I will make justice the measuring line, and righteousness the plumb line. The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters will overflow the hiding place.

And Jeremiah tells us

Jer 6:16 WEB Yahweh says, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, ‘Where is the good way?’ and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls. But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’

As well as

Jer 17:5-10 WEB 5 Yahweh says: “Cursed is the man who trusts in man, relies on strength of flesh, and whose heart departs from Yahweh. 6 For he will be like a bush in the desert, and will not see when good comes, but will inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, an uninhabited salt land. 7 “Blessed is the man who trusts in Yahweh, and whose confidence is in Yahweh. 8 For he will be as a tree planted by the waters, who spreads out its roots by the river, and will not fear when heat comes, but its leaf will be green, and will not be concerned in the year of drought. It won’t cease from yielding fruit. 9 The heart is deceitful above all things and it is exceedingly corrupt. Who can know it? 10 “I, Yahweh, search the mind. I try the heart, even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.”

It is about God torturing us forever if we do not love him.
Nope. It's about you torturing yourself by refusing to choose Jesus.
Are you ready to commit suicide? Are you ready to live with the awareness of your regret, and the torture it brings, knowing that you could have said yes, but chose no instead?
Your own sin is what will torture you.

And Christians insisting "God is love".
Yep. Because he very well could have simply left us to die, without any help or hope, on any level.
But he did help. He gave us his own son, while we were hopelessly dead in our sin and trespass. When we were without strength, he sent his own son to die for us.

No one wants to go to a place of torture. That is God's choice, not mine.
It is your choice.
By coming to Jesus, you choose life.
By rejecting Jesus, you choose an eternity of misery.

It's explicitly your choice.

God is choosing to send me to a place of eternal torture.
Nope. According to Jesus, he's prepared a fantastic Kingdom for you to spend your eternity.
Mat 25:32-34 WEB 32 Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will tell those on his right hand, ‘Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
A Kingdom prepared for you, and it's been being worked on since the foundation of the world.

Mat 25:41 WEB Then he will say also to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels;​

The choice is yours.
 

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