Just what is salvific Faith ?

Woody50

Well-known member
All intellectual smartness.

Who cares? You can say what you want, but where's the evidence?

James 2:18.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member

Just what is salvific Faith ?​


I believe thats the Faith/Belief of the Truth wrought from the Sanctifying work of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

God given Faith in Salvation will acknowledge the Truth as it is in Christ Jesus Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
 
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TomFL

Guest
I believe thats the Faith/Belief of the Truth wrought from the Sanctifying work of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Seems they are two different things
 
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TomFL

Guest
These are things over your head
That does not show they are the same thing

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

It is this and that

and you do not address it
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
That does not show they are the same thing

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

It is this and that

and you do not address it
Again things over your head.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Again things over your head.
Again you address nothing

That does not show they are the same thing

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

It is this and that

and you do not address it
 

York

Active member
I doubt you are saved, to be honest and forthright here. Much of the world embraces a form of religion but if it is not of Christ, it is not of God.


Is that another way of saying you'd prefer not to engage in the argument?


Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


And? Abraham believing God on the matter of provision of an heir, being saved by that faith doesn't impact his being saved through Christ?


“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (Joh 3:16-18 AV)
The name. What is the name of the Son of God? Rather, hasn't he many names?

And isn't it in the name? Believe in the name. Now let's take one of Jesus' names - one he told us about himself. The Truth. If a person believes "in the Truth", will they be saved?

"The Truth"? Now what the heck does that mean. Because it seems that believing in it saves you.

Which ties up nicely with Abraham, Abraham believed what God said on the matter of an heir. God obviously spoke Truth. Abraham believed in the Truth. And was saved.

Discuss :)
 
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brightfame52

Well-known member
Again you address nothing

That does not show they are the same thing

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

It is this and that

and you do not address it
Its been addressed in my post. You have quoted nothing that contradicts what I am saying. Im not like others who spend time explaining all your verses that you yourself dont believe or understand.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Its been addressed in my post. You have quoted nothing that contradicts what I am saying. Im not like others who spend time explaining all your verses that you yourself dont believe or understand.
Fabrication you made it one thing it is not

The verse however does not show they are the same thing

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

It is this and that

that is two things not one

and you do not address it
 

York

Active member
Fabrication you made it one thing it is not

The verse however does not show they are the same thing

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

It is this and that

that is two things not one

and you do not address it
Without knowing the in and out of either of your positions I would only say that on face value the word 'and' means the latter thing is a different thing than the former thing.

If held otherwise, then the onus would be on the person who says 'and' doesn't mean what it normally means, to explain themselves.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Without knowing the in and out of either of your positions I would only say that on face value the word 'and' means the latter thing is a different thing than the former thing.

If held otherwise, then the onus would be on the person who says 'and' doesn't mean what it normally means, to explain themselves.
Exactly

That poster however is trying to conjoin them as one
 

York

Active member
Exactly

That poster however is trying to conjoin them as one
Which is fine. They just have to show their work first.

It may prove to be over my head as the poster indicates. But let's see the work first.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Which is fine. They just have to show their work first.

It may prove to be over my head as the poster indicates. But let's see the work first.
More than likely is is based upon personal theology
 

York

Active member
More than likely is is based upon personal theology
All theology is personal. The question is whether it is a well founded theology that is assembled in a way that others can follow. If so, these other persons can incorporate it into their own theologies.

On the other hand, your enquiry of it might just be deflected by being asked whether you've been saved according to the workings of the others personal theology. A personal groan raiser that..it makes you wonder whether the person is 5 years old.

Time will tell.
 
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TomFL

Guest
All theology is personal. The question is whether it is a well founded theology that is assembled in a way that others can follow. If so, these other persons can incorporate it into their own theologies.

On the other hand, your enquiry of it might just be deflected by being asked whether you've been saved according to the workings of the others personal theology. A personal groan raiser that..it makes you wonder whether the person is 5 years old.

Time will tell.
Personal i.e. as without sufficient biblical support,
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
So many times on the forum things are assumed on both sides without defining words, phrases and other things hence we often times talk past one another. I believe this happens with "faith" as well. So lets see if we can come to an agreement on salvific faith, its origin and how it is obtained from one who is lost to one who becomes saved.

Thankfully, the Bible contains a clear definition of faith in Hebrews 11:1: “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” Simply put, the biblical definition of faith is “trusting in something you cannot explicitly prove.”

This definition of faith contains two aspects: intellectual assent and trust. Intellectual assent is believing something to be true. Trust is actually relying on the fact that the something is true. A chair is often used to help illustrate this. Intellectual assent is recognizing that a chair is a chair and agreeing that it is designed to support a person who sits on it. Trust is actually sitting in the chair.

Understanding these two aspects of faith is crucial. Many people believe certain facts about Jesus Christ. Many people will intellectually agree with the facts the Bible declares about Jesus. But knowing those facts to be true is not what the Bible means by “faith.” The biblical definition of faith requires intellectual assent to the facts and trust in the facts.

Believing that Jesus is God incarnate who died on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins and was resurrected is not enough. Even the demons “believe” in God and acknowledge those facts (cf. James 2:19). We must personally and fully rely on the death of Christ as the atoning sacrifice for our sins. We must “sit in the chair” of the salvation that Jesus Christ has provided. This is saving faith. The faith God requires of us for salvation is belief in what the Bible says about who Jesus is and what He accomplished and fully trusting in Jesus for that salvation (Acts 16:31). Biblical faith is always accompanied by repentance (Matthew 21:32; Mark 1:15).

The biblical definition of faith does not apply only to salvation. It is equally applicable to the rest of the Christian life. We are to believe what the Bible says, and we are to obey it. We are to believe the promises of God, and we are to live accordingly. We are to agree with the truth of God’s Word, and we are to allow ourselves to be transformed by it (Romans 12:2).

Why is this definition of faith so important? Why must trust accompany agreeing with facts? Because “without faith, it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6). Without faith, we cannot be saved (John 3:16). Without faith, the Christian life cannot be what God intends it to be (John 10:10).

Where does faith come from? Faith is not something we conjure up on our own, nor is it something we are born with, nor is faith a result of diligence in study or pursuit of the spiritual. Ephesians 2:8-9 makes it clear that faith is a gift from God, not because we deserve it, have earned it, or are worthy to have it. It is not from ourselves; it is from God. It is not obtained by our power or our free will. Faith is simply given to us by God, along with His grace and mercy, according to His holy plan and purpose, and because of that, He gets all the glory.

Why have faith? God designed a way to distinguish between those who belong to Him and those who don’t, and it is called faith. Very simply, we need faith to please God. God tells us that it pleases Him that we believe in Him even though we cannot see Him. A key part of Hebrews 11:6 tells us that “he rewards those who earnestly seek him.” This is not to say that we have faith in God just to get something from Him. However, God loves to bless those who are obedient and faithful. We see a perfect example of this in Luke 7:50. Jesus is engaged in dialog with a sinful woman when He gives us a glimpse of why faith is so rewarding. “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” The woman believed in Jesus Christ by faith, and He rewarded her for it. Finally, faith is what sustains us to the end, knowing that by faith we will be in heaven with God for all eternity. “Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls” (1 Peter 1:8-9).got?

hope this helps !!!

You are way off.

Saving faith is surrendering your life, the rest of your life, over to Jesus so that he is the one making all the decisions concerning all that your body of flesh will do - entrusting your life to him so that Christ in you does whatever he wants with you for the rest of your life. Only those who walk by the Spirit have entrusted themselves to Christ and if you have not the Spirit of Christ you are none of his. Your "faith" is no more than agreeing with man made doctrines about Jesus.
 
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