Just wondering:

How do you know this, are you with our friend 24/7? I believe he is a good man who loves God and takes care of his family. Right there he obeys 2 commandments. I bet he does not go out and murder people on a regular basis, and I do not think he is a thief either. So that is two more commandments he obeys. Does he covet his neighbors wife? I don't know, only God knows that as well as any other commandments he has broken. Really friend, that is an outrageous charge against another Christian, may I ask you to reconsider it? It is no shame to say one is wrong, to ask forgiveness, repent, and then treat your brother in Christ better from that moment forward.
So you are claiming to be perfect and you obey every commandment 24/7. Really.
 
So will the people in hell.

So--once your were justified, you never sinned again? You never caved to temptation? You never desired to sin again?

If that is so--then the only difference between you and Mary is that Mary was justified from Conception, whereas you weren't. You came to Christ at some point after birth.
So will the people in hell.

Apples and oranges. We, in heaven will be in Gods presence and He makes us able to stand there in His glory with great joy; Jude 24. Those in hell are destroyed eternally.

So--once your were justified, you never sinned again? You never caved to temptation? You never desired to sin again?

I don't think i even hinted at that. The power of sin being broken doesn't mean we don't sin, it means we have the means to avoid it, to endure temptation and to not give in. We are more aware of our temptations and sins. Or don't you believe that? I sin, but God knows i regret it. Unbelievers don't really have that spiritual conviction do they?

If that is so--then the only difference between you and Mary is that Mary was justified from Conception,

She was a sinner just like me. She gave her life to God just like everyone else does. She was born again and made a child of God. My sister, not my mother.
 
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So will the people in hell.

So--once your were justified, you never sinned again? You never caved to temptation? You never desired to sin again?

If that is so--then the only difference between you and Mary is that Mary was justified from Conception, whereas you weren't. You came to Christ at some point after birth.
How do you know what they will be doing hell? But it does not sound like a nice place, or have the new RC lite change hell to a warm shower like purgatory?

Show me one perfect RC?

Mary was a sinner, scripture is clear about that.
 
So you are claiming to be perfect and you obey every commandment 24/7. Really.
Nope, I am not claiming to be perfect, and I never said that. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that people who post here are obeying the commandments, I am not seeing that from your side. I am TRYING to be perfect, just as Jesus said we should be. How about you, have you reached perfection yet or are you still trying as I am?
 
She was a sinner just like me. She gave her life to God just like everyone else does. She was born again and made a child of God. My sister, not my mother.
She was given to all as a mother at the foot of the cross. Since she had no children, another man stepped in to care for her.
 
How do you know what they will be doing hell?
I believe the "So will the people in Hell" was referring to a comment by the Protestant about us being unable to sin in heaven becasue we have resurrected bodies. The point I was making was that the Resurrection of the dead is not only for people who are in Heaven. EVERYONE, saved or lost receives a resurrected body.
But it does not sound like a nice place, or have the new RC lite change hell to a warm shower like purgatory?
Giving up attachments to sin is never easy.
Show me one perfect RC?
Me.
Mary was a sinner, scripture is clear about that.
Again, read my comments in context.

The poster claimed that once justified they don't sin. I was asking whether that meant they were sinless, and if so, how does that make them different from Mary?
 
How do you know this, are you with our friend 24/7? I believe he is a good man who loves God and takes care of his family. Right there he obeys 2 commandments. I bet he does not go out and murder people on a regular basis, and I do not think he is a thief either. So that is two more commandments he obeys. Does he covet his neighbors wife? I don't know, only God knows that as well as any other commandments he has broken. Really friend, that is an outrageous charge against another Christian, may I ask you to reconsider it? It is no shame to say one is wrong, to ask forgiveness, repent, and then treat your brother in Christ better from that moment forward.
not as easy as you might think.

Matthew 5:21-24 The Message (MSG)
“You're familiar with the command to the ancients, 'Do not murder. ' I'm telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder.


Matthew 5:28 King James Bible
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
 
Here is the issue I have with this framing. Yes, the elimination of the desire to sin is an issue that needs to be dealt with. However, this doesn't touch on the issue of paying for venial sins. There is no reason to think suffering implemented by God of his elect after death would change desire at all.
It doesn't change anything. It PURGES us of the attachments to sin that we had--thus getting rid of the desire. The fact is that we sin because we like sinning in some cases, just like an alcoholic likes drinking. What is a better way (assuming we could do it) to treat alcoholism? Take away the alcohol so the alcoholic can't drink, or get rid of the desire? Getting rid of the alcohol treats the symptom. Getting rid of the desire treats the problem.
Such isn't the case in this this life, and nothing in Scripture says this nor is this the primary historical justification for purgatory. Our will needs to be corrected. The desire for sin itself needs to be removed. Such is an act of God.
What do you think Purgatory is, if not an act of God? Scripture tells us that our God is a consuming fire. Those fully redeemed, those in heaven--experience the fire of God's love as eternal bliss. Those "in" Purgatory experience the fire of God's love as refining, purifying.

Note, purging us of the attachments to sin is not the primary purpose for Purgatory historically. Neither is the removal of desire to sin. Such are modern (20th and 21st centuries) explanations for the historical practice.

Yet as many Catholics admit, there are individuals who are called Saints who do not experience purgatory. They have purified themselves enough in this life as to not need purgatory. They still had the desire for sin while they were alive yet no purgatory. Therefore, the elimination of the desire to sin is not directly connected to the purging of remaining sin in one's life in purgatory. And this is exemplified by the Apostle Paul's own testimony in Romans 7 where his response to the lingering affects of sin in his life is "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." Romans 7:25-8:1. Also, both the concept of scapular and indulgences to deal with venal sins as to shorten time in purgatory mitigate limiting Purgatory to this act of removing the desire to sin. Now, I can see and understanding that the venal sins need to be expiated before the elimination of the desire to sin, but doesn't Romans 8:1 communicate that such was already dealt with?
Those in Purgatory aren't condemned. If they were condemned, they wouldn't be there. They would be in Hell.

As for the saints, God uses the trials and tribulations of this life as another avenue of purification. That is why Catholics view suffering as a gift. Thus, saints who have suffered in this life have been purified and perfected through suffering--hence no need for Purgatory.

Note, you keep on switching back and forth between "purification" and the removal of "attachments to sin/desire to sin". Purification from venial sins is the historical purpose for Purgatory. And, that's what you are confirming in the above discussion of Saints.

If this is the case, then men like Saint Paul never had their desire for sin obliterated because he did not experience purgatory?
They would have had it in this life through their trials and tribulations, such that when they reached their death, all attachments to sin were purged away.
Obviously, this isn't the case, but do you see the issue I'm having with limiting the purpose of purgatory to obliterating the desire to sin? Besides, plenarily indulgences do exist, as do last rights. Why not simply open the gates and eliminate the need for extended purgatory for all faithful Catholics? Then, all of eternal consequences for all sin are eliminated, and our desire for sin will be dealt with as with Paul.
Why indeed. We might as well ask "Why doesn't God save us through some other way besides the Cross?"

I have no idea WHY God chooses to do things the way He does, I just know that He does.

As for the indulgences--in order to receive one, one must be free of attachments to sin. That is, one must be free of the desire to sin at the time received. (I think that is one of the conditions.)

You don't seem to be able to see the issue I'm having with limiting the purpose of purgatory to obliterating the desire to sin?

Thank you for your response.


God Bless
 
I believe the "So will the people in Hell" was referring to a comment by the Protestant about us being unable to sin in heaven becasue we have resurrected bodies. The point I was making was that the Resurrection of the dead is not only for people who are in Heaven. EVERYONE, saved or lost receives a resurrected body.

Giving up attachments to sin is never easy.

Me.

Again, read my comments in context.

The poster claimed that once justified they don't sin. I was asking whether that meant they were sinless, and if so, how does that make them different from Mary?
If you're referring to me in these comments you are being incredibly dishonest. I never said once justified we never sin. I also gave more than one reason we do not sin in heaven. Being glorified was only one. Maybe you need to go to confession or pop an emergency eucharist? Get that alleged holiness back.
 
Nope, I am not claiming to be perfect

So you do not keep Christ's commandments.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt that people who post here are obeying the commandments

Who posts here is perfect?

List them.


I am TRYING to be perfect, just as Jesus said we should be.

Nope. That is not what He said.

He commanded you to be perfect, not merely "try" to be perfect....which is just disobedience.
 
///

Paul says
Galations 4:26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
.
but Watchdog says of Mary


She was given to all as a mother at the foot of the cross. Since she had no children, another man stepped in to care for her.

Watchdog said:
She was given to all as a mother at the foot of the cross. Since she had no children, another man stepped in to care for her.
=============================end quote
.
numbers 21:4
And the children of Israel set forward,
and pitched in Oboth.

Oboth.
H178
Hebrew:אובTransliteration:'ôbPronunciation-obe
Definition:
From the same as H1 (apparently through the idea of prattling a father´ s name);
properly a {mumble} that {is} a water skin (from its hollow sound);
hence a necromancer ({ventriloquist} as from a jar):
- {bottle} familiar spirit.
.

Jesus answered and said unto him,
Art thou a master of Israel,
and knowest not these things
?

Isn't that the way it is
most do not know these things
they are just a """Dummy""" setting in the Lap of a Master
Parroting the words of the
a necromancer ({ventriloquist}

.
lets see
Paul says ---<vs>-- Watchdog says
Paul says ---<vs>-- Watchdog says
Paul says ---<vs>-- Watchdog says
.
 
Nope, I am not claiming to be perfect, and I never said that. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that people who post here are obeying the commandments, I am not seeing that from your side. I am TRYING to be perfect, just as Jesus said we should be. How about you, have you reached perfection yet or are you still trying as I am?
It is implied constantly by RCs. I follow Jesus and He does the rest, He writes it on our hearts and changes us. Jesus is our perfection.
 
I believe the "So will the people in Hell" was referring to a comment by the Protestant about us being unable to sin in heaven becasue we have resurrected bodies. The point I was making was that the Resurrection of the dead is not only for people who are in Heaven. EVERYONE, saved or lost receives a resurrected body.

Giving up attachments to sin is never easy.

Me.

Again, read my comments in context.

The poster claimed that once justified they don't sin. I was asking whether that meant they were sinless, and if so, how does that make them different from Mary?
The ego of RCs, you are perfect, yet your posts reveal otherwise.
 
If you're referring to me in these comments you are being incredibly dishonest. I never said once justified we never sin. I also gave more than one reason we do not sin in heaven. Being glorified was only one. Maybe you need to go to confession or pop an emergency eucharist? Get that alleged holiness back.
Thus Rom is revealing he is not perfect as he claims to be in post 46.
 
Nope, I am not claiming to be perfect, and I never said that. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that people who post here are obeying the commandments, I am not seeing that from your side. I am TRYING to be perfect, just as Jesus said we should be. How about you, have you reached perfection yet or are you still trying as I am?
POst 46 reveals one perfect RC. Maybe he can help you.
 
So you do not keep Christ's commandments.



Who posts here is perfect?

List them.




Nope. That is not what He said.

He commanded you to be perfect, not merely "try" to be perfect....which is just disobedience.
Post 46 is revealing about who is perfect.
 
Matthew 5:21-24 The Message (MSG)
“You're familiar with the command to the ancients, 'Do not murder. ' I'm telling you that anyone who is so much as angry with a brother or sister is guilty of murder.
Then there is no help for anyone. Oh, but that's right, with the OSAS idea, well, there is no problem with murder.
 
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