Justification from everlasting

T

TomFL

Guest
Looks like you evade truth. Thats all you do, never discuss.
That's a fabrication

i am discussing two verses you quoted

Romans 8:29 is still a promise to those who loved God who God had known previously

Romans 8:28-29 (ESV)
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Romans 11:2 those who God knew in the past

Romans 11:2-5 (ESV)
2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?
3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.”
4 But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

nothing at all to do with men selected before the foundation of the earth for no apparent reason

but you won't deal with it
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
That's a fabrication

i am discussing two verses you quoted

Romans 8:29 is still a promise to those who loved God who God had known previously

Romans 8:28-29 (ESV)
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Romans 11:2 those who God knew in the past

Romans 11:2-5 (ESV)
2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?
3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.”
4 But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

nothing at all to do with men selected before the foundation of the earth for no apparent reason

but you won't deal with it
Its Gospel Truth !
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Its Gospel Truth !
It's still your fabrication

Romans 8:29 is still a promise to those who loved God who God had known previously

Romans 8:28-29 (ESV)
28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Romans 11:2 those who God knew in the past

Romans 11:2-5 (ESV)
2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?
3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.”
4 But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

nothing at all to do with men selected before the foundation of the earth for no apparent reason

but you won't deal with it
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Eternal Justification by the Purpose, Decree of God !

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

It cannot be plainer than this, That according to the Truth of the Everlasting Gospel, all the Elect of God were Saved, Justified, Given Grace in Christ before the World began, according to His OWN Purpose !

What is this Purpose ? First the scripture says according to HIS OWN PURPOSE, Pertaining to Himself, so this purpose takes place first and foremost within God's ownself ! Also the word purpose means here determination and the idea of decree is associated with this set purpose or determination.

Its also the foundation of God's Predestination as in Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

In Justification, this Eternal Purpose or Decree, this Determination within God Himself, God never appointed the Elect to Wrath, but to obtain Salvation ! So consequently within the Eternal Decree or Purpose of God the Elect were Justified from all sin before the World Began ! They were saved by the Purpose and Grace of God before the World Began, which is the foundation for their Call and Faith and Justification in Time Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

According to this Eternal Purpose God did Justify them before Himself by Non Imputation Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

This Justification by God of the Elect had nothing to do with their faith in time, but His Purpose Given them before Time ! 2 Tim 1:958

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Eternal Justification by the Purpose, Decree of God !

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

It cannot be plainer than this, That according to the Truth of the Everlasting Gospel, all the Elect of God were Saved, Justified, Given Grace in Christ before the World began, according to His OWN Purpose !

What is this Purpose ? First the scripture says according to HIS OWN PURPOSE, Pertaining to Himself, so this purpose takes place first and foremost within God's ownself ! Also the word purpose means here determination and the idea of decree is associated with this set purpose or determination.

Its also the foundation of God's Predestination as in Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

In Justification, this Eternal Purpose or Decree, this Determination within God Himself, God never appointed the Elect to Wrath, but to obtain Salvation ! So consequently within the Eternal Decree or Purpose of God the Elect were Justified from all sin before the World Began ! They were saved by the Purpose and Grace of God before the World Began, which is the foundation for their Call and Faith and Justification in Time Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

According to this Eternal Purpose God did Justify them before Himself by Non Imputation Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

This Justification by God of the Elect had nothing to do with their faith in time, but His Purpose Given them before Time ! 2 Tim 1:958

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Who is the us he saves but those who have

2 Timothy 1:5-9 (ESV)
5 I am reminded of your sincere faith, a faith that dwelt first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice and now, I am sure, dwells in you as well.
6 For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands,
7 for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God,
9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Ps 103:17

17But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

I do not think it will be argued that Justification by Faith is a very great mercy to experience in this life. This mercy was not just random or by chance , or by freewill, but was established as a sure mercy from everlasting. God, the everlasting God, Preached the gospel of Justification to Abraham centuries ago Gal 3:8

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

which is referring to Gen 12:3

3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

But now what was the previous bases for this Mercy ? I believe it was the everlasting Covenant which is what Ps 103:17 is referring to, as the Mercy from everlasting.

I believe Jesus coming in the incarnation was a effect of that Covenant and why He is called the promised mercy.

Lk 1:67-73,77,78

67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73
The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,


77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

78 Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, !

So Christ coming to die for His People is the fruition of the everlasting covenant. His coming was an act of mercy, in that He would give himself, his soul an offering for sin, for the transgressions of God's People.

Christ didn't just die for the repentance of sin, but Christ believed and died for repentance of sin. Was Abraham called righteous because he was willing to sacrifice his son? No, but God called him righteous for just believing.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
In teaching the Justification of the Elect before Faith, even before the World Began, it is not a denial of the condemnation and guilt of Adam's sin their natural head, which condemnation the scripture teacheth here Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

That word condemnation is a very strong word ,it is the greek word katakrima and means:

damnatory sentence, condemnation

Its used twice more here Rom 5:16 and Rom 8:1

We do not deny this condemnation incurred by the Elect in their natural head Adam, however, God because of a previous Covenant Engagement before the World began, with the Surety of the Elect, God, instead of charging the Elect with that their condemnation Rom 5:18, instead had charged it upon Christ ! Yes, that damnatory sentence of Eternal Death was laid charge to Christ's Account due to the previous stipulations of the Everlasting Covenant.

You see, if that condemnation of the elect was not real, then there would have been no reason for Christ to have had their sins imputed to Him, and the Gospel fact is according to Paul 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

If the damnatory sentence the Elect incurred was not real and factual, then Christ's Death would be null and void, because His Death was the consequence of their damnatory sentence laid to His Charge instead of theirs. In fact the word for in 1 Cor 15:3 is the greek prep hyper and means:

in behalf of, for the sake of

And so Christ died in behalf of our sins, that damnatory sentence we deserved to die for eternally, instead, Christ died in our behalf !

So the Justification of the Elect before Faith, is not because of condemnation was not merited by them, but because the merited condemnation Rom 5:18 was not laid to their charge 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 4:863 !

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

That blessed man is each one Christ died in behalf of !
 

newheart78

Well-known member
In teaching the Justification of the Elect before Faith, even before the World Began, it is not a denial of the condemnation and guilt of Adam's sin their natural head, which condemnation the scripture teacheth here Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

That word condemnation is a very strong word ,it is the greek word katakrima and means:

damnatory sentence, condemnation

Its used twice more here Rom 5:16 and Rom 8:1

We do not deny this condemnation incurred by the Elect in their natural head Adam, however, God because of a previous Covenant Engagement before the World began, with the Surety of the Elect, God, instead of charging the Elect with that their condemnation Rom 5:18, instead had charged it upon Christ ! Yes, that damnatory sentence of Eternal Death was laid charge to Christ's Account due to the previous stipulations of the Everlasting Covenant.

You see, if that condemnation of the elect was not real, then there would have been no reason for Christ to have had their sins imputed to Him, and the Gospel fact is according to Paul 1 Cor 15:3

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

If the damnatory sentence the Elect incurred was not real and factual, then Christ's Death would be null and void, because His Death was the consequence of their damnatory sentence laid to His Charge instead of theirs. In fact the word for in 1 Cor 15:3 is the greek prep hyper and means:

in behalf of, for the sake of

And so Christ died in behalf of our sins, that damnatory sentence we deserved to die for eternally, instead, Christ died in our behalf !

So the Justification of the Elect before Faith, is not because of condemnation was not merited by them, but because the merited condemnation Rom 5:18 was not laid to their charge 2 Cor 5:19; Rom 4:863 !

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

That blessed man is each one Christ died in behalf of !
Amen Brother, no sin shall ever be imputed to God's Elect Rom. 8:33 , 2 Cor. 5:19;
but their damnatory sentence Rom. 5:18 and condemnation for sin incurred in Adam,
and all they would ever commit in time, were Blessed to have them laid to the Account
of Christ their Surety Heb. 7:22 from Everlasting: Eternally Justified in Christ their Head !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Amen Brother, no sin shall ever be imputed to God's Elect Rom. 8:33 , 2 Cor. 5:19;
but their damnatory sentence Rom. 5:18 and condemnation for sin incurred in Adam,
and all they would ever commit in time, were Blessed to have them laid to the Account
of Christ their Surety Heb. 7:22 from Everlasting: Eternally Justified in Christ their Head !
Amen !
 

newheart78

Well-known member
Eternal Justification by the Purpose, Decree of God !

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

It cannot be plainer than this, That according to the Truth of the Everlasting Gospel, all the Elect of God were Saved, Justified, Given Grace in Christ before the World began, according to His OWN Purpose !

What is this Purpose ? First the scripture says according to HIS OWN PURPOSE, Pertaining to Himself, so this purpose takes place first and foremost within God's ownself ! Also the word purpose means here determination and the idea of decree is associated with this set purpose or determination.

Its also the foundation of God's Predestination as in Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

In Justification, this Eternal Purpose or Decree, this Determination within God Himself, God never appointed the Elect to Wrath, but to obtain Salvation ! So consequently within the Eternal Decree or Purpose of God the Elect were Justified from all sin before the World Began ! They were saved by the Purpose and Grace of God before the World Began, which is the foundation for their Call and Faith and Justification in Time Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

According to this Eternal Purpose God did Justify them before Himself by Non Imputation Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

This Justification by God of the Elect had nothing to do with their faith in time, but His Purpose Given them before Time ! 2 Tim 1:958

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Amen for sure Brother, Glory to God !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
To deny Eternal Justification of the Elect before God is a flat out denial of the Gospel, which Gospel is nothing short of Preaching the Everlasting and New Covenant, and the denial lies in this:

Its a denial of the purpose and agreement and Surety-Ship of Christ before the beginning of the World, which is the whole foundation of Eternal Justification of the Chosen in Christ before God Eph 1:4. It also denies God's Eternal act of setting apart or sanctification of the Elect which Jude alludes to here Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Now for Jude to write this statement in the opening of a letter that is regarding our common Salvation and The Faith delivered unto the Saints vs 3

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Then it is feasible that they have heard the blessed Truth before i in the Gospel of being in the Eternal Decree of the Father Sanctified or set apart, that would be in their Eternal Election Eph 1:3-4 !64

This setting apart of the Father from Election in Christ does ensure, make certain the application of Christ's Righteousness in Time by New Birth, this Eternal Act is the very substance of Eternal Justification, deny this, you become an Enemy of the Gospel !
 

newheart78

Well-known member
To deny Eternal Justification of the Elect before God is a flat out denial of the Gospel, which Gospel is nothing short of Preaching the Everlasting and New Covenant, and the denial lies in this:

Its a denial of the purpose and agreement and Surety-Ship of Christ before the beginning of the World, which is the whole foundation of Eternal Justification of the Chosen in Christ before God Eph 1:4. It also denies God's Eternal act of setting apart or sanctification of the Elect which Jude alludes to here Jude 1:1

1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Now for Jude to write this statement in the opening of a letter that is regarding our common Salvation and The Faith delivered unto the Saints vs 3

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Then it is feasible that they have heard the blessed Truth before i in the Gospel of being in the Eternal Decree of the Father Sanctified or set apart, that would be in their Eternal Election Eph 1:3-4 !64

This setting apart of the Father from Election in Christ does ensure, make certain the application of Christ's Righteousness in Time by New Birth, this Eternal Act is the very substance of Eternal Justification, deny this, you become an Enemy of the Gospel !
Amen Brother !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Eternal Justification is a act of Justification before God, an Eternal Act of God, whereby He does not impute sin upon all for whom Christ will die, hence, discharging them from all guilt and condemnation solely premised upon Christ's Promise to Perform the Covenant obligations for them in Time !

So, before the Mind of God, The Performance of dying for the sins of the Elect was performed, by Promise Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Thats why even from the beginning of His Public Ministry, The Father's Testimony of Him was this Matt 3:17

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Thats because of His Promised Covenant Engagement which did culminate in His Death !

The Father was no more Pleased for the accomplishment of Christ's sacrifice after His Death as He was before it and even when He Covenanted it before the World began !
 

newheart78

Well-known member
Eternal Justification is a act of Justification before God, an Eternal Act of God, whereby He does not impute sin upon all for whom Christ will die, hence, discharging them from all guilt and condemnation solely premised upon Christ's Promise to Perform the Covenant obligations for them in Time !

So, before the Mind of God, The Performance of dying for the sins of the Elect was performed, by Promise Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Thats why even from the beginning of His Public Ministry, The Father's Testimony of Him was this Matt 3:17

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Thats because of His Promised Covenant Engagement which did culminate in His Death !

The Father was no more Pleased for the accomplishment of Christ's sacrifice after His Death as He was before it and even when He Covenanted it before the World began !
Surely Amen !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The contractual agreement !

The contractual agreement between the Father and the Son, the covenant of peace, this agreement forbade the Father to charge His Elect with condemnation and sin upon their transgressing in Time, yes they would sin indeed in Adam, but because of the Everlasting Covenant, their condemnation for their sin could not be laid to their charge, simply because the agreement was , when they sin and became indebted to God's Law and Justice, that the charge would not be imputed to them, but to Christ their Surety, leaving them therefore Justified from all sin by non imputation Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

The elect were discharged based upon the Promise of the Surety, to in time, the fullness of time to be exact, to die for their sins !

The Father could only by [covenant agreement] look for payment for their sins from the death of Christ vs 3466

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Christ was even before His Incarnation on the Right Hand of God as their Surety, that is the Glory He had with the Father before the World Began Jn 17:5

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
It is God that justifieth Not Faith !

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

This scripture is very clear as to who Justifies, it is God's act first and foremost, and it was conceived in His Mind from Eternity , and when that act is finally terminated on the elect sinners conscious, it is Justification by Faith Rom 5:1. However , for it to ever come to be Justification by Faith in time, it had to be conceived first as Justification from Eternity by Him that conceived it originally ! God never laid to charge to the Elect, their condemnation due to their sin, that began their Justification before Him in Eternity !
 

newheart78

Well-known member
It is God that justifieth Not Faith !

Rom 8:33

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

This scripture is very clear as to who Justifies, it is God's act first and foremost, and it was conceived in His Mind from Eternity , and when that act is finally terminated on the elect sinners conscious, it is Justification by Faith Rom 5:1. However , for it to ever come to be Justification by Faith in time, it had to be conceived first as Justification from Eternity by Him that conceived it originally ! God never laid to charge to the Elect, their condemnation due to their sin, that began their Justification before Him in Eternity !

Yes indeed Brother !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Thou thought God was as you and me !

Ps 50:21

21 These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

Evil men, with corrupt minds, do blaspheme God, and think of God as one like himself, when in our thinking, they join what God has separated in point and time, and that more specifically being His Eternal Justification of the Elect in His own Mind in Christ, due to His own innate Purpose within Himself, and then the declaring the Elect Justified in their own conscience in time. This is an willful confounding of Eternity with time, the Eternal with the temporal, the Creator with the creature.

For God in His Own Eternal Purpose, He did act immanently, Justifying the Elect in Christ within His Own Counsel from Everlasting, so from Everlasting He is their God Ps 90:1-2

Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.

Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God[In Covenant].

Thats why it is written of His Mercy Ps 103:17

17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

But this is different and opposed to when He would Justify them in their own persons and hearts in time.

If God does not in His own Mind consider the Elect Justified from Eternity by His Own immanent act, but not until the Elect in their own mind in time are Justified by God given Faith [The Faith of God's Elect Titus 1:1-2], then this would speak of an mutability in God, a Change from what His Mind was in Eternity towards His Elect, which would make God out to be as one of His creatures, and Eternity is governed by time. This is Blasphemy against God, and unless repentance is granted , those teaching such and believing such shall not go unpunished in Hell !

And everyone who disbelieves in the Eternal Justification of God's Elect are in serious peril of damnation !
 
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