Justification

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Does the Church of Roman Catholicism still teach that if anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works: but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof: let him be cast out?
 
Does the Church of Roman Catholicism still teach that if anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works: but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof: let him be cast out?
The teachings of Trent are still true.
 
?? The Supreme Court of the United States has declared me not guilty, yet I must do good in order to maintain that judgment? And by doing even more good deeds I can make myself even more "not-guilty"? W-O-W. ? Silly me. I thought that the truth would set me free, not bind me even tighter! ?

--Rich
 
Does the Church of Roman Catholicism still teach that if anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works: but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof: let him be cast out?
James 2 14-26 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
 
James 2 14-26 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
FIRST FAITH
how do we know people have faith by their ACTIONS.

Yep I find this amusing coming from RCs just look at the works/actions of their leaders. Maybe follow 1 Cor 5:11 which clearly shows what should be done with leaders who do not act the way God says and shows by their actions that they do not have faith.
 
James 2 14-26 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Read that last part really slow. True faith is accompanied by works as proof of that faith. But works don't save. They are the outward sign of a person of faith. This isn't rocket science. But why don't you read the 99% of the book of james catholics ignore? Its always one or two verses in chapter 2, nothing else. The entire book proves this is not talking about justification with a vertical view in mind, but horizontal. The entire book is on the people level just like you quoted.
 
The teachings of Trent are still true.
Whether the teachings of Trent are still true or not, is of no count. Roman Catholics quite simply do not live for Christ by living for His will revealed to the world in the Word of God, but rather they live for and defend their 'church' and it's cultic teachings of Roman Catholicism.
 
What Trent teaches relative to good works does not comport with Scripture. Trent and Catholicism's view of the purpose of works is not the Biblical view. Catholicism does not understand the relationship of faith and works in the context of salvation. Paul give a great view of the realtionship between faith and works relative to salvation in Eph. 2:8-10

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them"

So, faith plays a salvific role in salvation, while works plays a role in sanctification subsequent to salvation. Paul is careful to separate faith and works so their role will not be mistaken. Catholicism espouses an unlawful synergism of faith and works which is not Biblical. In Catholic theology works encroach on the category of salvation when works are designed to function in the category of sanctification. In Catholic theology we have a synergistic form of salvation, whereas in Biblical theology we have a monergistic expression of salvation.
 
?? The Supreme Court of the United States has declared me not guilty, yet I must do good in order to maintain that judgment? And by doing even more good deeds I can make myself even more "not-guilty"? W-O-W. ? Silly me. I thought that the truth would set me free, not bind me even tighter! ?

--Rich
This analogy fails because in the case of Supreme Court decision that declares you, specifically, not guilty, the declaration is specific to you. There is nothing further you need to do to "maintain" that judgement. But if the Supreme Court had declared that a group was not guilty, let's say a group defined by being a peaceful protester at a rally that turned violent, the decision would apply to you specifically only if you really were in the named group - that is, you really were peaceful. Your actions (works) are what qualify you from benefiting from that Supreme Court decision. That is a much closer analogy to salvation from Christ. That salvation is declared for a group defined by signs of faith. Those signs include good works. It is just an analogy, but it is more apt than your analogy.
 
Does the Church of Roman Catholicism still teach that if anyone says that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works: but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof: let him be cast out?
Yes.

Works done in Faith, Faith working in love for the soul is analogous how heat makes things expand. For example, the more water is heated, the more water expands. This is why hot water is better for cleaning than cold water. The hot water has more "room" to hold dirt becasue the water is less dense than cold water. Because the water is less dense, the surface tension of the water is also lower--which means the water is better able to interact with and remove dirt. The water is "wetter" than cold water. When the water is "wetter" it means surfaces will be evenly coated becasue the water is less cohesive to itself as a result of the lower surface tension.

What does this have to do with Faith working in love? Faith working in love does to the soul what heat does to water in an analogous sense: it causes it to expand. The more the soul "expands" the more "room" it has to be filled with God's love. Hence the "increase in justification." is a result of the "expansion" of the soul and more "room" to "hold" God's love. I have the words in quotes becasue the soul is immaterial. I am speaking in an analogous sense.

That is why good works are so important once one receives the Grace of justification. The more our Faith works in love, the more our hearts/souls expand and burn with the love of God. The more our hearts/souls expand with God's love, the more God can fill us with his life. The more God fills us with his life, the more our justification "increases."
 
This analogy fails because in the case of Supreme Court decision that declares you, specifically, not guilty, the declaration is specific to you. There is nothing further you need to do to "maintain" that judgement. But if the Supreme Court had declared that a group was not guilty, let's say a group defined by being a peaceful protester at a rally that turned violent, the decision would apply to you specifically only if you really were in the named group - that is, you really were peaceful. Your actions (works) are what qualify you from benefiting from that Supreme Court decision. That is a much closer analogy to salvation from Christ. That salvation is declared for a group defined by signs of faith. Those signs include good works. It is just an analogy, but it is more apt than your analogy.
The word "Salvation" used in the Word of God has a very broad concept. To the vast majority of Roman Catholics the word "salvation" means little more than deliverance from the pit of hell. However, salvation means much more than that. True followers of the Lord Jesus Christ receive an abundance of countless blessings that are bestowed upon them when Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior.
 
The word "Salvation" used in the Word of God has a very broad concept. To the vast majority of Roman Catholics the word "salvation" means little more than deliverance from the pit of hell. However, salvation means much more than that. True followers of the Lord Jesus Christ receive an abundance of countless blessings that are bestowed upon them when Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior.
That is what CCC 2010 says too.
 
Yes.

Works done in Faith, Faith working in love for the soul is analogous how heat makes things expand. For example, the more water is heated, the more water expands. This is why hot water is better for cleaning than cold water. The hot water has more "room" to hold dirt becasue the water is less dense than cold water. Because the water is less dense, the surface tension of the water is also lower--which means the water is better able to interact with and remove dirt. The water is "wetter" than cold water. When the water is "wetter" it means surfaces will be evenly coated becasue the water is less cohesive to itself as a result of the lower surface tension.

What does this have to do with Faith working in love? Faith working in love does to the soul what heat does to water in an analogous sense: it causes it to expand. The more the soul "expands" the more "room" it has to be filled with God's love. Hence the "increase in justification." is a result of the "expansion" of the soul and more "room" to "hold" God's love. I have the words in quotes becasue the soul is immaterial. I am speaking in an analogous sense.

That is why good works are so important once one receives the Grace of justification. The more our Faith works in love, the more our hearts/souls expand and burn with the love of God. The more our hearts/souls expand with God's love, the more God can fill us with his life. The more God fills us with his life, the more our justification "increases."
"Justification" is a legal term which means "to be declared righteous". When God unites us to Jesus Christ we are aquitted from the condemnation under the Law of God, and the righteousness of Christ is credited to our account.
 
Back
Top