JWs are discouraged from Bible reading.

imJRR

Well-known member
Four quotes to start with: “All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.” Watchtower 10/1/1994 p. 8

From JR: See the word “only” there? The JW masters have stated that THEY – no one else – are the ONLY communicators of God's truth.
Why? Because THEY say so. Nothing more to it than that.

“Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it.” Watchtower 1967 October 1 p.590 - Finding Freedom with Jehovah's Visible Organization

From JR: Again, we have the statement by the JW masters that THEY are the ONLY ones who give right or true spiritual instruction. All others are wrong, false, apostate, and so on. They go on to say if anyone wants to know the truth, they "MUST" (that's a REQUIREMENT) recognize and accept their appointment and be submissive to them and whatever they write. Why? Because THEY say so. Nothing more.

JWs are directed to “….respond to the directions of the “slave” (the Watchtower Society) as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision.” (Watchtower, June 15, 1957, p.370) From the October 1, 1967 Watchtower:

“Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible CANNOT be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind.”

From JR: In other words, it's not what the Bible says that has the final say in a person's life; it's what the JW masters SAY the Bible says that has the final say. This means that reading the Bible apart from the (GUFFAW!) “study materials” in the publications is not encouraged. You are simply not to read the Bible by itself – You HAVE to have the dictations of the JW masters in order to arrive at JW beliefs. It's required.

And here's the BIG quote that actually does say that JW are discouraged from reading the Bible on its own: "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively (by itself), either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." The Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981.

From JR: Did you get that? If you read the Bible by itself, you will believe in the Deity of Christ (actually, you'll become a Trinitarian) because that is exactly what the Watchtower is referring to here when it says "apostate doctrines." In other words, IF YOU READ THE BIBLE ALONE BY ITSELF YOU WILL NOT ARRIVE AT WATCHTOWER DOCTRINES. This is an amazing admission by the Watchtower organization. It is clear that Jehovah's Witnesses do not get their teachings from the Bible, but from the dictations of the JW masters in the Watchtower literature.
 
?? Over 150 views and no responses from any JWs? Was the initial post too long?

Let me try to shorten it - Here is the quote from the JW masters: "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively (by itself), either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." The Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981.


- The quote says that a person will not arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible/Scriptures.

- It goes on to say that - by reading the Bible/Scriptures, a person will arrive at Christian beliefs.

- This means that JWs don't get their beliefs from the Scriptures.
 
Let's make it even more clear and plain: When it comes to the subject of JWs and the Bible, the quote by your JW masters says and shows the following: A person who just reads the Bible will not arrive at JW beliefs/teachings by reading the Bible; they will arrive at Christian beliefs/teachings.

Let's spell it out line by line:
- When it comes to the subject of JWs and the Bible, the quote is an ADMISSION that says that a person will not arrive at JW beliefs by reading the Bible.
- Question: Why would anyone say that? Easy to answer:
- The quote says that people who DO read the Bible "revert" to Christian beliefs.
- Now, this begs a VERY IMPORTANT question: "Just WHAT are they 'reverting' FROM?" Since reading the Bible will take you to Christian beliefs, just WHERE are you reverting to Christian beliefs FROM?
- Again, very easy to answer: Since reading the Bible causes one to "revert" to Christian beliefs, that means that the place one is reverting FROM by reading the Bible is that of NON-Christian beliefs.
- Any genuinely honest, rational, discerning person can and will very, very easily figure this out. It is the inevitable result of what the quote says. Even a junior high school student can follow the logical progression here.

Since that's the case...
- That means YOUR referencing the Scriptures is meaningless and irrelevant.
- You can post a hundred Scriptures and it doesn't mean a thing.
- Because JWs don't get their beliefs from the Scriptures.
- You get them from whatever your masters dictate to you.
- The quote by your JW masters PROVES that.
- It proves that it is YOUR beliefs that are man-made philosophies and ideas.
- Since reading the Bible causes one to "revert" to Christian beliefs, that means that the place one is reverting FROM by reading the Bible is that of NON-Christian beliefs
- Very, very easy to understand.

This means that...
- Every time and any time you post the Bible you engage in open, deliberate fraud.
- Because your beliefs don't come from the Bible. They come from your JW masters.
- Reading the Bible will cause one to arrive at Christian beliefs, not JW beliefs.
- Your JW masters have admitted to this.
- THEIR words; THEIR admission.
 
Four quotes to start with: “All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.” Watchtower 10/1/1994 p. 8

From JR: See the word “only” there? The JW masters have stated that THEY – no one else – are the ONLY communicators of God's truth.
Why? Because THEY say so. Nothing more to it than that.

“Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it.” Watchtower 1967 October 1 p.590 - Finding Freedom with Jehovah's Visible Organization

From JR: Again, we have the statement by the JW masters that THEY are the ONLY ones who give right or true spiritual instruction. All others are wrong, false, apostate, and so on. They go on to say if anyone wants to know the truth, they "MUST" (that's a REQUIREMENT) recognize and accept their appointment and be submissive to them and whatever they write. Why? Because THEY say so. Nothing more.

JWs are directed to “….respond to the directions of the “slave” (the Watchtower Society) as we would to the voice of God, because it is His provision.” (Watchtower, June 15, 1957, p.370) From the October 1, 1967 Watchtower:

“Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible CANNOT be properly understood without Jehovah’s visible organization in mind.”

From JR: In other words, it's not what the Bible says that has the final say in a person's life; it's what the JW masters SAY the Bible says that has the final say. This means that reading the Bible apart from the (GUFFAW!) “study materials” in the publications is not encouraged. You are simply not to read the Bible by itself – You HAVE to have the dictations of the JW masters in order to arrive at JW beliefs. It's required.

And here's the BIG quote that actually does say that JW are discouraged from reading the Bible on its own: "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively (by itself), either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." The Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1981.

From JR: Did you get that? If you read the Bible by itself, you will believe in the Deity of Christ (actually, you'll become a Trinitarian) because that is exactly what the Watchtower is referring to here when it says "apostate doctrines." In other words, IF YOU READ THE BIBLE ALONE BY ITSELF YOU WILL NOT ARRIVE AT WATCHTOWER DOCTRINES. This is an amazing admission by the Watchtower organization. It is clear that Jehovah's Witnesses do not get their teachings from the Bible, but from the dictations of the JW masters in the Watchtower literature.

Actually we are advised to read the bible daily. And yes there are many matters in the bible men cannot understand without being taught by the teachers Jesus appointed, that is fact. Its why there are 41,000 religions claiming to be christian=a mass of confusion because 40,999 dont have Jesus' appointed teachers. 1Cor 1:10= (a true mark of Jesus' religion)-Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division=1 single religion has Jesus.
The watchtower is correct, 40,999 religions teach error. Misleading all to not accomplish this-John 4:22-24

At Daniel 12:4 shows the hidden truths of Daniel became abundant here in these last days. That means all along error was taught on those matters through the centuries. Please advise us of the corrections your religions have made known?
C.T.Russell -the only man on earth who the prophecy of Daniel 4 was revealed through said in 1879--Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914( Rev 6:4) he was correct--the establishment of Gods kingdom in heaven-Rev 6:1. 2520 years from the removal of the last king in Jerusalem=607 bce + 2520= 1914--- While 40,999 religions remained in darkness of the matter.
 
Actually we are advised to read the bible daily. And yes there are many matters in the bible men cannot understand without being taught by the teachers Jesus appointed, that is fact. Its why there are 41,000 religions claiming to be christian=a mass of confusion because 40,999 dont have Jesus' appointed teachers. 1Cor 1:10= (a true mark of Jesus' religion)-Unity of thought( all of Gods 1 truth) no division=1 single religion has Jesus.
The watchtower is correct, 40,999 religions teach error. Misleading all to not accomplish this-John 4:22-24

At Daniel 12:4 shows the hidden truths of Daniel became abundant here in these last days. That means all along error was taught on those matters through the centuries. Please advise us of the corrections your religions have made known?
C.T.Russell -the only man on earth who the prophecy of Daniel 4 was revealed through said in 1879--Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914( Rev 6:4) he was correct--the establishment of Gods kingdom in heaven-Rev 6:1. 2520 years from the removal of the last king in Jerusalem=607 bce + 2520= 1914--- While 40,999 religions remained in darkness of the matter.
quick fact-- Revelation 6 hasn't yet occurred.
 
Greetings kiew and organgrinder,
C.T.Russell -the only man on earth who the prophecy of Daniel 4 was revealed through said in 1879--Peace will be taken from the earth in 1914( Rev 6:4) he was correct--the establishment of Gods kingdom in heaven-Rev 6:1. 2520 years from the removal of the last king in Jerusalem=607 bce + 2520= 1914--- While 40,999 religions remained in darkness of the matter.
Quick question: Do the modern JWs endorse ALL of CT Russell's teaching?
quick fact-- Revelation 6 hasn't yet occurred.
Quick comment: I consider that the Continuous Historic view of the Book of Revelation is correct, and that the seals, trumpets and vials are sequential. As such I consider that the Seals represent the period AD 96-312, depicting the Decline of the Pagan Roman Empire and its replacement by the corrupt "Christian" Empire under Constantine. Possibly I belong to one of the 40,999, but at least we do not attempt to manufacture clones.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings kiew and organgrinder,

Quick question: Do the modern JWs endorse ALL of CT Russell's teaching?

Quick comment: I consider that the Continuous Historic view of the Book of Revelation is correct, and that the seals, trumpets and vials are sequential. As such I consider that the Seals represent the period AD 96-312, depicting the Decline of the Pagan Roman Empire and its replacement by the corrupt "Christian" Empire under Constantine. Possibly I belong to one of the 40,999, but at least we do not attempt to manufacture clones.

Kind regards
Trevor
That is your opinion and one I do not share... and that is ok. Exact understanding of eschatology is not a salvational issue.
 
Greetings organgrinder,
That is your opinion and one I do not share... and that is ok.
I mainly made a passing comment as I have been interested in my personal and shared understanding of the Seals, Trumpets and Vials for many years, and more recently have shared an ongoing Senior Sunday School class on this subject. I certainly do not endorse the JW view of prophecy.
Exact understanding of eschatology is not a salvational issue.
Just like playing a harmonious piece of music on the organ, it is nice to have a proper understanding of prophecy and especially the future Kingdom of God. Some wrong teaching on these this is a salvation issue.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Greetings organgrinder,

I mainly made a passing comment as I have been interested in my personal and shared understanding of the Seals, Trumpets and Vials for many years, and more recently have shared an ongoing Senior Sunday School class on this subject. I certainly do not endorse the JW view of prophecy.

Just like playing a harmonious piece of music on the organ, it is nice to have a proper understanding of prophecy and especially the future Kingdom of God. Some wrong teaching on these this is a salvation issue.

Kind regards
Trevor
Proper and exact are not the same. Core Christian doctrine on the nature of God, the virgin birth, salvation by grace through faith alone and Christ alone, the literal resurrection and ascension of Jesus into heaven are essential doctrines. The return of Jesus is also a promise, but there are a few views on how that is interpreted. Salvation is not determined on whether one believes in a pre, mid or post rapture or whether the book of revelation is literal, allegorical or spiritual or a combination of all three.

Glad you don't endorse the JW view. Happy New Year.
 
That is your opinion and one I do not share... and that is ok. Exact understanding of eschatology is not a salvational issue.

It does matter on salvation issue! If you understand that the Replacement Theology is false then all prophetic scriptures and eschatology hovers around Israel, God's covenant people on both sides of the Old and New Covenant with many falling and rising again.

Heb 8:8-12; Gal 4:1-5 are some of many scriptures.
 
Greetings again organgrinder,
Proper and exact are not the same.
Fair enough.
Core Christian doctrine on the nature of God, the virgin birth, salvation by grace through faith alone and Christ alone, the literal resurrection and ascension of Jesus into heaven are essential doctrines.
From an assessment of what you are saying here, I would most probably disagree with some aspects here, but it is off topic and I am not permitted to have a three way conversation on this sub-forum..
The return of Jesus is also a promise, but there are a few views on how that is interpreted. Salvation is not determined on whether one believes in a pre, mid or post rapture or whether the book of revelation is literal, allegorical or spiritual or a combination of all three.
I have specific views on these, and consider most other views to be grossly in error, and this does have an effect. But again off topic. As far as the topic is concerned, we need to carefully consider and affectionately believe the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name Acts 8:5,6,12 and much of this comes as a result of personal study and meditation on the Word, not by accepting the teaching of JW.Org and their non-inspired elders.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
It does matter on salvation issue! If you understand that the Replacement Theology is false then all prophetic scriptures and eschatology hovers around Israel, God's covenant people on both sides of the Old and New Covenant with many falling and rising again.

Heb 8:8-12; Gal 4:1-5 are some of many scriptures.
Replacement theology is false, yet there are those holding to it that are disciples of Jesus having made him personal savior and LORD and live for Him, wrong theology on eschatology notwithstanding. How are people saved? Acts lays it out as does John 3:16. and Romans 10:9-11. Nothing about views on eschatology.
 
Greetings again organgrinder,
Nothing about views on eschatology.
I suggest that the Apostles and early disciples had a consistent view of these things. We have the two speeches by Peter in Acts 2 and 3, and we have the summary of what Philip preached to the Samaritans in Acts 8:5-6,12 as "the things" concerning the Kingdom of God and the Name of Jesus Christ, and a similar summary concerning Paul's preaching in Acts 28:30-31. Now this thread suggests that the JWs have a consistent view and maintain this consistent view by means of their literature and suggesting that their members do not independently study the Bible and outside commentaries. My recommendation is that we should carefully examine the Scriptures for ourselves, also comparing the various claims of such as the JWs and many others, and principally allow the Word of God to guide us.

I like the following two references as starting points to building a proper, consistent and meaningful framework of understanding. Both talk about the return of Jesus, and the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth.
Acts 3:19-21 (KJV): 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

I suggest that the above are contrary to the popular view about heaven going at death or at the return of Jesus. It is also contrary to the JW view of the 144,000 as this indicates one Kingdom, and one group of faithful.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
quick fact-- Revelation 6 hasn't yet occurred.
The prophecy in Daniel says it has occurred. The establishment of Gods kingdom in heaven-Rev 6:1-- Peace will be taken from the earth=ww1 Rev 6:4) After ww1 millions upon millions died all over the earth from things mentioned of the other 3 riders. They estimate 50-100 million alone died from the spanish flu and the vaccinations the Drs created themselves and gave to people.
 
Greetings kiew and organgrinder,

Quick question: Do the modern JWs endorse ALL of CT Russell's teaching?

Quick comment: I consider that the Continuous Historic view of the Book of Revelation is correct, and that the seals, trumpets and vials are sequential. As such I consider that the Seals represent the period AD 96-312, depicting the Decline of the Pagan Roman Empire and its replacement by the corrupt "Christian" Empire under Constantine. Possibly I belong to one of the 40,999, but at least we do not attempt to manufacture clones.

Kind regards
Trevor

Mr Russell only had error filled translations to use, so he made errors. The light grown brighter all along. We just received new light concerning the resurrection.
Yes the religion that came out of Rome screwed it all up by creating false truths at their councils, such as God being a trinity, and translated small errors into the bible to fit the false council teachings. No protestant religion fixed it. Even in their own encyclopedia they teach-the apostolic Fathers knew nothing of God being a trinity. Thats because the Abrahamic God= a single being God= YHWH(Jehovah)
 
Greetings again kiew,
The light grown brighter all along. We just received new light concerning the resurrection.
This indicates to me that you endorse the concept that your elders are spirit-guided and the means whereby new light is revealed. I would be interested in a brief summary of what is this "new light concerning the resurrection".
Thats because the Abrahamic God= a single being God= YHWH(Jehovah)
I agree with you that there is only One God, Yahweh, God the Father. What I find unusual with the JWs is their insistence on using the wrong form of the YHWH Name as "Jehovah", and even boasting about their unique use of this.
The prophecy in Daniel says it has occurred.
Seeing you are conversant with Daniel, could I ask if there is much discussion on Daniel, and is there allowed a range of opinion and discussion on the various aspects of this prophecy, or is the norm that individuals in your various congregations must accept what is dispensed and handed down in your literature and all real discussion is stifled?

What prompts me on this is the last discussion that I had with a workmate JW before he retired many years ago. Another workmate had discussed with him his belief that the King from the North of Ezekiel 38 was Russia and also the King of the North of Daniel 11:40 was also Russia. The conversation that I had with the JW was that he had told my other workmate that his theory was all wrong, and that Russia had collapsed. It was at the time of the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

At the conclusion of our talk, I asked the JW as to who he thought was the King of the North (of Ezekiel 38 and Daniel 11:40-45). He did not give an answer, and my conclusion is that this is not revealed in the JW literature, and the reason is because these two passages are inconsistent with the JW view of end times. The JWs see no relevance in events in the Middle East with their view of the destruction of the present order of things, and also they do not believe in the conversion of a significant remnant of natural Israel at the return of Jesus as taught in Ezekiel 38 and 39.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
The prophecy in Daniel says it has occurred. The establishment of Gods kingdom in heaven-Rev 6:1-- Peace will be taken from the earth=ww1 Rev 6:4) After ww1 millions upon millions died all over the earth from things mentioned of the other 3 riders. They estimate 50-100 million alone died from the spanish flu and the vaccinations the Drs created themselves and gave to people.
Nope.
 
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