Keeping the commandments and LDS theology

[brotherofJared]

The other poster never answered my questions. I asked him, not you.

LOL. Don't pretend that he and I are not on the same team. He might be able to clarify my answer from his point of view, but you have an answer. Hounding someone for an answer when you have one is, IMO, a personal attack.

 

[brotherofJared]

I was talking about this:

I know. You still don't seem to know what the argument is about. Your accusation about Joseph has nothing to do with my statement. Joseph isn't the person I'm referring to in my comment. Trace the thread. See what I'm responding to and then tell me who you think it is that I'm responding to and why.

 

[brotherofJared]

And the "gods" in Ps. 82 are not real deities,

God appears to disagree with you. He said, "I said, ye are gods" Why is it that you don't believe God. He said it twice and in the last interaction, he said it in person and declared that the scriptures cannot be broken. Why do you all insist on breaking the scriptures? (These are rhetorical questions, no need to answer)

either, but corrupt rulers and judges.

The evidence suggests otherwise. See Heiser who is an evangelical. Whatever else they are, he, at least, recognizes that they are NOT corrupt rulers and judges. They are not even human according to him.

But Paul STILL said that some have the belly as their god.

A completely irrelevant remark. It has nothing to do with Ps 82, which was my point.

 

[Theo1689]

God appears to disagree with you.

Nope.
God ACTUALLY disagrees with YOU.
Deut. 4:35,39, Deut. 32:39, 1 Kings 8:60, Ps. 86:10, Isa. 44:6,8, Isa. 45:5,21,22, Isa. 46:9, Mark 12:32, 1 Cor. 8:4, etc. etc. etc.

And the Scriptures cannot be broken.

Why do you all insist on breaking the scriptures? (These are rhetorical questions, no need to answer)

The evidence suggests otherwise. See Heiser who is an evangelical.

Heiser isn't Scripture.

And guess what, Talmage (who was MORMON) disagrees with YOU.

Whatever else they are, he, at least, recognizes that they are NOT corrupt rulers and judges.

And Talmage (who was Mormon) recognized that they WERE "corrupt rulers and judges".

 

[brotherofJared]

I believe the term "gods" was used in irony

Of course, you do, but that's not what he said. You all will do anything you can to resist the evidence that might indicate that you are wrong. You all ignore a lot of evidence that shows that you're wrong, so why would this be any different. Preserve the faith at all costs, even if it's wrong.

This is the kind of stuff that creeps into the church when there are no prophets and apostles. It was happening in the New Testament which Paul frequently tried correct. We talking only 45 to 50 years after Christ's resurrection. There were people still alive that had seen the Savior personally. The church was still new and the members were going off "whoring after other gods". What do you suppose would happen if there were no apostles and prophets? Well, I'll tell you. Look at your own religion and the things you teach that aren't taught in the Bible. That's what happens and regardless of what anyone else says about it, you are the ones that are right and, well according to you all, the only one that is wrong is us. The exact opposite of logic. There are thousands of truths but only 3 or 4 falses.

since in a few places in Deuteronomy, judges were called "gods." And they were human judges.

The Psalms isn't Deuteronomy. There were no judges that ruled at the time. Is there some scripture that calls David god, or Solomon? Why would the Psalmist be talking about something that didn't exist in a ruling capacity? When were the judges ever called the sons of God? Sorry, your evidence doesn't hold water, but you think it does because according to you all, the more discrepancies you have, the closer you are to the truth.

I am not ripping any verses out of context. That is what is done in Mormonism.

I am not ripping any verses out of context. That is done by our critics in order to keep their false theologies!

Theo and I have both shown you dozens of Bible verses that clearly say that ONLY ONE GOD EXISTS.

You two have demonstrated what you believe they say, not what they say. They all clearly show that there are many gods, sometimes explicitly and yet, you all continue to rip them out of context to suit your traditions.

HOW does God saying "there are no gods besides Me" imply that there are other gods?

I'm not sure which one of the many times he said that that you are referring to, but I will take the one from Isaiah 45. He is talking to Cyrus who is not an Israelite. He has his own Gods. That is where it is implied. By stating that there is no other, there is none besides me, he is acknowledging the gods of Cyrus and that they are not beside him. Cyrus' gods are, of course, idols and are no gods at all, but God doesn't tell Cyrus that. He leaves them in their place as gods and clearly states that beside him, there is no other... Again, in context, who anointed Cyrus by name, who went before him, who placed him on his throne. All of that is unbelievable on its face. Who would believe a subordinate nation who made such claims? There is no proof but your words which anyone can write. The proof came in the fact that all these words were written before Cyrus was even born. Further, it would be insulting to think that God was implying that he made Cyrus like a windup doll and that he was created at birth fo the path that he was currently one. That Cyrus had no choice in the matter. Isaiah's words here imply that Cyrus was known to God as a person, a being and that God was aware of Cyrus and the kind of person he was and that he would do the right thing by Israel. This is something that Cyrus' gods could not do nor did they claim to do. Cyrus was extremely impressed by Isaiah's words and fulfilled them.

There isn't a single instance where God denies that there are other gods. He even, sometimes, explicitly recognizes that they do exist. His prophets and apostles also recognized it and were explicit about it as well.

But, Paul was the most explicit of all of them, as far as I know. He declared that there were indeed many gods and many lords, but to us there is but one God and that wasn't Jesus Christ. As far as Gods go, there is only one. But we know that there are many gods. Jesus is one of them. In Ps 82, God, in the council of the gods, declared to them that those who judge unjustly and favor the wicked would be in danger of dying like men and falling like Lucifer. But he declared their lineage, that they were all sons of the Most High God. This declaration was all-inclusive, including himself. He, also, is a son of the most High God. This being is later described in the New Testament as God, the Father. Christ was the God who stood in the midst of the gods and called them to repentance. He was doing the same job there that he's doing here. He was trying to lead them to the most High God, if they would listen and heed His words. That is the same message he calls us to do today. It is not a message for a certain class of people, judges and rulers. It is a message for everyone and that those who don't heed the message, are in danger of dying like men AND falling like Lucifer. It is a two-fold message. We will all die like men because we are men. But it is not necessary that we all fall like one of the princes.

That is the message of Ps 82. It was delivered to everyone in that council, which is everyone who has ever lived or will live on this earth. it is indicative that Israel also believed and understood that man, the being or identify of man, dwelled with God before they were born into mortality. We call it the preexistence. And God called them gods. That understanding directly flows into the King Follet Discourse where Joseph Smith didn't say that we have to learn how to become gods. That is the rhetoric of our critics. Joseph Smith said, we have to learn how to be gods. That is what we are here to do. That is one of the precious and plain truths that has been removed from the scriptures. The ECF's had some of this truth. I don't know if any of them ever said anything about being preexistent with God from before the world was formed, but they clearly, many of them, understood that the purpose of the gospel here is to draw us closer to being like God because that is our ultimate destiny and a door that Christ opened for us.

 

[Bonnie]

snip for space

You are wasting a lot of band width and not saying a whole lot. Here are the Is. 45 verses in context:

For the sake of Jacob My servant,
And Israel My chosen one,
I have also called you by your name;
I have given you a title of honor
Though you have not known Me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is no one else;
There is no God except Me.
I will [d]arm you, though you have not known Me,
6 So that people may know from the rising to the setting of the sun
That there is no one besides Me.
I am the Lord, and there is no one else,
7 The One forming light and creating darkness,
Causing [e]well-being and creating disaster;
I am the Lord who does all these things.

We were not discussing Cyrus. He is not the subject of this discussion. God knows the future and was predicting it. BUT HE STILL SAID THAT APART FROM HIM THERE IS NO GOD. Not even Cyrus' "gods." He did NOT acknowledge Cyrus' gods at all.

God meant what He said--APART FROM HIM, there is NO GOD. APART FROM. Which is what "besides me" means.

No, the Psalms aren't Deuteronomy, but the last time I checked, Deuteronomy was part of God's word, just like the Psalms and Isaiah. Jesus acknowledged the "Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms". And as I have stated before ALL of what the Bible says must be taken into context and not cherry picked, as Mormons are wont to do. Ps. 82 is a classic example. Sorry, but in Deuteronomy, in a few places, "judges" are called "gods" yet they were human judges and rulers--just like in Ps. 82.

And i am NOT talking about the Judges who ruled in Israel after they arrived in the Promised Land, but judges who ruled in civil and religious matters among the children of Israel. Don't you read the first 5 books of the OT? Haven't you read Leviticus and Deuteronomy? Jethro even convinced Moses to appoint righteous judges to help him make decisions in civil and religious problems, among the people, so he would not exhaust himself. IN the most important matters, they could then go to Moses.

We have never said on here that Mormons are the only ones who are wrong...JWs are wrong, Moonies are wrong, Islam is wrong, Buddhism is wrong....and my church is not being discussed on here. Why do you bring it up....an attempt to change the subject?

Having false prophets and false apostles like your church has allowed TONS of heresies to be taught and preached as truth, but are all lies, from the father of lies. Who is the father of lies, boJ?

how convenient that you ALSO forget that Paul ALSO wrote that "there is NO GOD BUT ONE." Get that? Pagans of course, have many gods and many lords--but Paul also calls these gods "so called gods" which are "NO GOD by nature." Do you know what it means to be BY NATURE NO GODS?

You have wasted a lot of band with and have not said very much. Just tapped danced all around my question: WHAT and WHO do you think the "gods" in Ps. 82 actually ARE:

As far as Gods go, there is only one. But we know that there are many gods. Jesus is one of them. In Ps 82, God, in the council of the gods, declared to them that those who judge unjustly and favor the wicked would be in danger of dying like men and falling like Lucifer. But he declared their lineage, that they were all sons of the Most High God. This declaration was all-inclusive, including himself. He, also, is a son of the most High God. This being is later described in the New Testament as God, the Father. Christ was the God who stood in the midst of the gods and called them to repentance. He was doing the same job there that he's doing here. He was trying to lead them to the most High God, if they would listen and heed His words. That is the same message he calls us to do today. It is not a message for a certain class of people, judges and rulers. It is a message for everyone and that those who don't heed the message, are in danger of dying like men AND falling like Lucifer. It is a two-fold message. We will all die like men because we are men. But it is not necessary that we all fall like one of the princes.[/B]

You said quite a lot to keep from giving me a direct answer to Ps. 82 and WHO you think the "gods" of Ps. 82 ARE. FIRST you say "as far as Gods go, THERE IS ONLY ONE." Then you say "we know that there are many gods and Jesus is one of them." How then, can there be MANY GODS and at the same time "ONLY ONE"? Why do you contradict yourself? What you wrote cannot be true, since truth does NOT contradict itself. Once again, what you wrote here validates what John t used to have in his signature: "Inconsistency is the tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult."

NOW WHO are the "gods" of Ps. 82? Just telling me they are "sons of the most high" isn't enough. Are these "gods" DEITY BY NATURE? How can that be, since they sinned by favoring the wicked and not upholding the helpless?

God takes His position in His assembly;
He judges in the midst of the gods.
2 How long will you judge unjustly
And show partiality to the wicked? Selah
3 Vindicate the weak and fatherless;
Do justice to the afflicted and destitute.
4 Rescue the weak and needy;
Save them from the hand of the wicked.
5 They do not know nor do they understand;
They walk around in darkness;
All the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.
7 Nevertheless you will die like men,
And fall like one of the princes.”
8 Arise, God, judge the earth!
For You possess all the nations.

God did NOT say that they were IN DANGER of dying like men...He said they WILL DIE LIKE MEN and FALL like any prince. He said that they had ALREADY judged unjustly and had ALREADY shown partiality to the wicked. God wasn't warning them NOT to judge unjustly etc., BUT TOLD THEM THEY HAD ALREADY DONE SO And God asked them how long they would do all this.

Also, God says they "know nothing" and "do not understand" and "walk about in darkness"? Wouldn't true gods know a LOT? And understand A LOT?

Sorry, but Ps. 82 is not about the pre-mortal spirit existence, with everyone's spirit before the throne of God. The tense is PRESENT TENSE in Ps. 82--not past tense or future.

So, IF these are true deities, in Ps. 82, WHY are they sinning? Wouldn't that make them demons? So what EXACTLY are these "gods" in Ps. 82? Are they true deity or not? Please give me a straight answer. Thank you.

 

[Theo1689]

You are wasting a lot of band width and not saying a whole lot. Here are the Is. 45 verses in context:

Another good question would be, "How would God tell you in the Bible that He is the only god who exists, and no other gods exist, for you to believe Him?"

The only answer I've ever gotten is a cop-out, "He would never say that, because it isn't true."

We already know what God would say, because He already HAS said it.
In Deut.
In 1 Kings.
In the Psalms.
In Isaiah.
In Mark.
In 1 Cor.

 

[brotherofJared]

Except the Bible demonstrates that God is one Being composed of three distinct Persons/Personalities/Identities.

The Bible demonstrates that God is three separate beings. The most significant of these is Christ's Baptism. One God is being baptized. The other God is speaking from heaven. The last one is descending on the one being baptized.

There are other ample demonstrations there they are also seen as different beings, such as Christ praying to the Father and deferring to the Father. Or Christ literally telling Mary that he is going to ascend to His God and her God. There are three beings being discussed in that exchange. And then we have the mount of Transfiguration where one God is speaking from heaven and Jesus, the other God is standing with two ancient prophets. And let us not forget Ps 82, where one God is speaks in the council of the gods and makes that claim that they are all sons of yet another being he called "the most High [God]".

The only demonstration that they are one, seeing as these other demonstrations show us that they are three, is in the form where Jesus prayed for a similar oneness between himself and his disciples, that it would be the same as the oneness he has with His Father. Apparently, Jesus being in the Father and the Father being in Jesus is not a physical connection, but a spiritual one which can be achieved by any physical being. It's called unity in purpose which was clearly the intent of Christ's prayer and appears to be a valid explanation for how three beings or 15 beings can be one.

All three Persons in the Godhead are clearly called "God" yet repeatedly the Bible says that "God is One" and that ONLY one God exists.

That would be your interpretation based on your traditions. It's not what the Bible says. All three beings in the Godhead are clearly called "God". Yet repeatedly, the Bible says that God is one and to us there is no other.

Why, even your very own BoM plainly says that Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are "ONE GOD.." NOT one in purpose, but ONE GOD.

LOL. No. It does not say "NOT one in purpose". It says they are one God (actually, The wording of the three witnesses and the Book of Mormon passage are identical. They name the three beings and then say "which is one God". You are asserting your own understanding and not accepting the text as it is written). It does now say how they are one. It doesn't say that they are one being. I get the impression that's how you define God... that the word is interchangeable but it's not. God, as it is used here, is not a being. Instead, it is an idea, a concept. How do we know it is not being used to describe a being? See my explanations above. The New Testament demonstrates repeatedly that they are three beings. If we KNOW that they are three beings (and we have eyewitnesses who have told us they aren't the same being), then we must conclude, above all else, that the meaning here does not mean one being. It must mean something else. And it does.

 

[brotherofJared]

No, you received it from the liar and false prophet, Joseph Smith, jr. Since most of what he taught as doctrine contradicts what the Bible actually says--like in his wretched KFS--then we know that what Smith taught are lies and did NOT come from God, but from the devil, the father of lies.

So sorry, but the evidence doesn't support your assertion. The more ancient information we uncover the better Joseph Smith's work looks. But we don't need to wait for history to be uncovered. We already know. It is the world that is catching up.

 

[brotherofJared]

Are these "gods" deity BY NATURE? Yes or no?

What does the text say? It says, all of you are sons of the most High [God]. That tells me that they are gods by nature.

 

[Bonnie]

What does the text say? It says, all of you are sons of the most High [God]. That tells me that they are gods by nature.

I asked if they are DEITY BY NATURE, yes or no...why are you so reluctant to answer me? DEITY BY NATURE....yes or no?

 

[Bonnie]

So sorry, but the evidence doesn't support your assertion. The more ancient information we uncover the better Joseph Smith's work looks. But we don't need to wait for history to be uncovered. We already know. It is the world that is catching up.

Uh, yes it does. We can see what Smith taught and compare it with what is actually taught in the Bible. No need for any "catching up." He taught blasphemy, as he did in his wretched KFD. The man was a liar, false prophet, and hypocrite.We cannot follow the true Jesus Christ of the bible and false prophets at the same time.

 

[Bonnie]

The Bible demonstrates that God is three separate beings. The most significant of these is Christ's Baptism. One God is being baptized. The other God is speaking from heaven. The last one is descending on the one being baptized.

There are other ample demonstrations there they are also seen as different beings, such as Christ praying to the Father and deferring to the Father. Or Christ literally telling Mary that he is going to ascend to His God and her God. There are three beings being discussed in that exchange. And then we have the mount of Transfiguration where one God is speaking from heaven and Jesus, the other God is standing with two ancient prophets. And let us not forget Ps 82, where one God is speaks in the council of the gods and makes that claim that they are all sons of yet another being he called "the most High [God]".

The only demonstration that they are one, seeing as these other demonstrations show us that they are three, is in the form where Jesus prayed for a similar oneness between himself and his disciples, that it would be the same as the oneness he has with His Father. Apparently, Jesus being in the Father and the Father being in Jesus is not a physical connection, but a spiritual one which can be achieved by any physical being. It's called unity in purpose which was clearly the intent of Christ's prayer and appears to be a valid explanation for how three beings or 15 beings can be one.

That would be your interpretation based on your traditions. It's not what the Bible says. All three beings in the Godhead are clearly called "God". Yet repeatedly, the Bible says that God is one and to us there is no other.

LOL. No. It does not say "NOT one in purpose". It says they are one God (actually, The wording of the three witnesses and the Book of Mormon passage are identical. They name the three beings and then say "which is one God". You are asserting your own understanding and not accepting the text as it is written). It does now say how they are one. It doesn't say that they are one being. I get the impression that's how you define God... that the word is interchangeable but it's not. God, as it is used here, is not a being. Instead, it is an idea, a concept. How do we know it is not being used to describe a being? See my explanations above. The New Testament demonstrates repeatedly that they are three beings. If we KNOW that they are three beings (and we have eyewitnesses who have told us they aren't the same being), then we must conclude, above all else, that the meaning here does not mean one being. It must mean something else. And it does.

The Bible DOES no such thing. The Bible repeatedly says there is ONLY ONE GOD and THAT GOD IS ONE, yet, all three Persons in the Godhead are clearly called God, ergo, the Triune Godhead. What the passages show are three separate PERSONS and that the Bible never confuses the Persons, as the BoM does, sometimes.


Sorry, but yes I am accepting the Biblical test as it is written, but unlike you, I am accepting ALL of the Biblical text. Not bits and pieces. And when Jesus said that He and His Father are One, the Pharisees wanted to STONE HIM FOR BLASPHEMY! They understood He was claiming Deity. And He was. Remember, He also said, "Before Abraham was, I AM." They wanted to stone Him for that, too.

Your BoM says n several places that Father, Son, and HG are one, or One God. Just as the Three Witnesses did, in the forepart of the BoM. But your church's theology, which started out monotheistic and Trinitarian, degenerated into rank polytheism and paganism, even claiming their God was once a man on an earth who had to LEARN how to become a God! And that Jesus and Satan are actual brothers in the supposed pre-mortal spirit existence! Its Christology is even more abysmally low, and that teaching is shameful and proves it!

 

[Bonnie]

Another good question would be, "How would God tell you in the Bible that He is the only god who exists, and no other gods exist, for you to believe Him?"

The only answer I've ever gotten is a cop-out, "He would never say that, because it isn't true."

We already know what God would say, because He already HAS said it.
In Deut.
In 1 Kings.
In the Psalms.
In Isaiah.
In Mark.
In 1 Cor.

Agreed. They think Ps. 82 cancels out all the OTHER verses that say ONLY ONE GOD EXISTS. Sad, isn't it? All to support their wretched polytheism. Their theology and especially Christology are really debased, aren't they?

 

[Bonnie]

I’m at a total loss of what your point is, or how you’ve proven it.

it is in my post, the similarity in tone, content, and wording between Ps. 82 and the Isaiah verses I quoted, especially in the bolded parts.

 

[Aaron32]

it is in my post, the similarity in tone, content, and wording between Ps. 82 and the Isaiah verses I quoted, especially in the bolded parts.

Proving what? Psalms matches Isaiah? Which means....?

 

[brotherofJared]

Adding to my earlier reply

Are these "gods" deity BY NATURE? Yes or no?

The scriptures talk about a war in heaven where the unrighteous lost and the righteous won. We lost a third of the host of heaven in that war. These were beings who knew what was going on, who knew the plan and rejected it. These were all beings who lived in the presence of God. As we look at Ps 82, we know that one of the princes had already fallen by that council meeting. If that were not so, a statement warning them that they could fall like one of the princes would be meaningless. Everyone would be wondering what is God talking about? Apparently, these beings were in council after the war in heaven had ended. These beings still had issues. So, we learn from this fact that not every one of the two-thirds that were "righteous" was perfect and we know from our own experience that only one was perfect and everyone else was were various degrees of perfection and righteousness. If those beings were us, and I believe they are, then it is apparent that the war in heaven is still being waged now and that God is separating the wheat from the tares. And we may yet lose another third or possibly even more.

It seems to me that phrases like the Father of spirits and the offspring of God, all suggest that every single one of us the capacity to have God's nature. We all have within us the potential to rise to the capacity of God. So, yes, by my understanding of the scriptures they are all gods by nature, the source of their being and their potential, but like the prodigal's son and from what we can observe in life, regardless of how much potential we have, given the opportunity, we often think we know better how to deal with our inheritance. It is only after we have squandered it that we wake up, hopefully, and realize the source of our light was right. It is through Jesus Christ that we are enabled to correct our mistakes, so long as we're still alive to do so.

The greatest error in any false theology is that God maintains His power by keeping it away from others, by preserving a trump card, so to speak and that he has the capacity to "end" anyone who defies Him. He always keeps that to himself so he can stay in control. But there is nothing further from the truth. God does not "lord" over us with strict rules and regulations. Do this and I'll kick you out of heaven. No. The message God is trying to deliver is that no power or influence can be maintained by force such as that we might imagine that we have. Power and influence, true power and influence, comes only through the mastery of one's self. By having love for all men and towards the household of faith which is the opposite of the admonistion God delivered to the gods who might find themselves falling like one fo the prices. Love overcomes judging unjustly and being partial to the wicked. The things He told them were needed are evidence, the fruits of, love. That is why the great commandment that govers all the other commandments is love. Without it, we are no better than dogs fighting over a bone. It is so difficult to let go of that bone and go hungry and call it love. When will we get something to eat? Don't we have a right to eat as well? Shouldn't we fight to survive? Isn't that our right? That's what we have to overcome.

The prodigal's son found that his right to eat was taken away because of his selfishness, his desire for instant self-gratification. his insistence that half of the bone was his to do with as he pleased. That is the human nature within all of us. The divine nature needs to win over that human nature and we all have it within us. It came from God, just as Jesus' divine nature also came from God. We all have that potential within us. So yes, they were gods by nature as well as human by nature. The challenge of this life is which nature will we let direct our life? That has always been what the war in heaven was about. Which nature will we let preside and Jesus has done and is doing everything He can to help us choose, so we are not alone. As Joseph Smith put it, we have got to learn how to be gods. That is why we're here.

 

[brotherofJared]

Did Jesus say there were more than one deity out there?

Yes. He did.

And yes, Jesus did indeed believe that HE is God. He accepted worship even in His human, humble state. He stated that "before Abraham existed, I AM."

I am not questioning whether or not Jesus was God. I believe he was. I believe He knew he was. Peter said he was. But I don't know of any passage where Jesus accepted worship of himself until after his resurrection. He always deferred worship to His Father who he made clear was not himself. The rich man who called him good. When teaching us how to pray and to whom we should offer our prayers. When telling Mary that her God was his God and her Father was his Father. These all demonstrate the existence of at least one other God who was not himself.

He said that "I and the Father are One" and the Pharisees wanted to stone Him, Jesus didn't mean just "one in purpose" which was NOT a stoning offense.

I wouldn't say that the Pharisees were judging justly. What they believed was a stoning offense doesn't make it a stoning offense. Jesus also didn't say that He was the Father. From all the examples I just showed, we know that he never made the claim that they were one being. Jesus didn't claim that he didn't mean "one in purpose". That is your interpretation. And I believe their oneness was more than simply one in purpose, but that their "oneness" was so complete that what Jesus said would be the same as if God had said it himself. His words were God's words, as they were throughout the Old Testament. He had authority from God to speak for God without having those words first dictated from God (which isn't the same for the Holy Ghost who can only repeat what he's heard. The Holy Ghost is not allowed to speak from his own free will. Jesus was. So, when I say the oneness that they had was in purpose, that is only to allow for the separation of their beings. But the actually oneness they had was greater than purpose. Jesus was anointed and sanctified to do what he was doing. He had the full authority of the one who sent him until the resurrection. Then he had all power and authority. Then he could be worshiped and then he accepted such worship, but during his mortal life, he always deferred to His Father.

 

[brotherofJared]

About your last paragraph...no, we "critics" do NOT ignore one critical factor about the life of Jesus Christ! Show us where we denied He could "die like a man"

Once again, you demonstrate that you don't understand the argument. The point, which you seemed to have missed, is that your argument that how can deity die like men, is moot seeing as God died like a man. I'm sure you will agree that Jesus was God before he was mortal. I'm sure that you will agree that the God who said all those things in Ps 82 is Jesus, in his pre-mortal state. If he was God then and died like a man, then why wouldn't it be possible for the other deity there to die like men?

Now I think I hashed that out pretty well so most people can understand the point of the argument and maybe you can get on track. I didn't say you "denied that he could die like a man". Do you understand the argument now?

 

[brotherofJared]

I assume that these are rebuttals to my answers. Please keep in mind that you can't say that we didn't answer your question. You may not like the answers, but that doesn't mean they weren't answered.

1. The man became like US--there we have the Triune Godhead hinted at--ONLY in knowing good from evil. God is eternal, uncreated, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. Man is NONE OF THESE THINGS, so man did not become a god after he sinned. That is nonsense.

Quit running away from the argument by bringing up irrelevant points. I stated that your first question was irrelevant. God said they were gods. That is a fact, pure and simple. Whatever you might think of them, God said it. I believe it. You don't.

Your question suggest that gods have to be perfect. God doesn't appear to see it the same way. First, God rises in the council fo the gods. Then he tells them about behavior that will be harmful to themselves and after that, he reinterates that they are gods. If we are to believe the Bible, it seems apparent that gods can do those things and still be gods, according to god. His definition does not appear to be yours.

I discarded your question because the answer is in the text. God said they are gods after he pointed out their shortcomings, anything else after that is pointless because God made the declaration. I believe him, not you.