Kenosis Heresy

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Of course all truth concerning Jesus is ridiculous to you since you deny Him and as Jesus said those who deny the Son, the Father will also deny.
More carnal human reasoning, for it doesn't matter that it is prophecy like your spiritually simple friend wants to argue concerning Psalm 2:7, for when it says "today I have begotten you" as a day prophesied that is yet to come in the future, it still refers to a day in created time, for there are no days in regards to eternity.
 

civic

Well-known member
More carnal human reasoning, for it doesn't matter that it is prophecy like your spiritually simple friend wants to argue concerning Psalm 2:7, for when it says "today I have begotten you" as a day prophesied that is yet to come in the future, it still refers to a day in created time, for there are no days in regards to eternity.
those like you without the Spirit are carnal- those who deny Christ cannot have the Spirit in them.

next.......................
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
those like you without the Spirit are carnal- those who deny Christ cannot have the Spirit in them.

next.......................
Why is it that you cannot refute what I present to you then civic, for all you every do is give you carnal opinion about my person instead.

The one who really denies Christ is the one who wants him to be what he himself never said that he was, for their is no denial in my confession of who Yahweh and Jesus are but it is based on what Jesus himself told me and what he based my eternal life on also.

John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know you (Father Yahweh) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".

For just as there is no way that the Father can also be the Christ whom he sent, neither can the Christ whom he sent also be The Only True God and especially not when Jesus used the words "The ONLY" to reveal him by.
 

civic

Well-known member
Why is it that you cannot refute what I present to you then civic, for all you every do is give you carnal opinion about my person instead.

The one who really denies Christ is the one who wants him to be what he himself never said that he was, for their is no denial in my confession of who Yahweh and Jesus are but it is based on what Jesus himself told me and what he based my eternal life on also.

John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know you (Father Yahweh) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ whom you have sent".

For just as there is no way that the Father can also be the Christ whom he sent, neither can the Christ whom he sent also be The Only True God and especially not when Jesus used the words "The ONLY" to reveal him by.
You have yet to refute the OP rofl.

And you left out John 17:5 as only God existed prior to creation cherry picker.

next.............................
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
You have yet to refute the OP rofl.

And you left out John 17:5 as only God existed prior to creation cherry picker.

next.............................
Sorry Civic but the context of John 17:5 began with John 17:3 and not the other way around and no matter what Jesus was speaking of in John 17:5 it cannot negate what he said first in John 17:3 and there is just no way around this for you and deep in your spirit man, you know this and it is eating you alive and should also because you are in error.
 

civic

Well-known member
Sorry Civic but the context of John 17:5 began with John 17:3 and not the other way around and no matter what Jesus was speaking of in John 17:5 it cannot negate what he said first in John 17:3 and there is just no way around this for you and deep in your spirit man, you know this and it is eating you alive and should also because you are in error.
The truth in 17:3 does not change the truth in 17:5. The fact remains the Son declared He was together with the Father BEFORE CREATION.

You lose so pack it up or repent of your false Christ and join the team that will be in heaven, not hell.

hope this helps !!!
 

101G

Well-known member
More carnal human reasoning, for it doesn't matter that it is prophecy, for when it says "today" as a day prophesied and that is yet to come in the future, it still refers to a day in created time, for there are no days in regards to eternity and days only began to exist during the creation. .
ERROR, did you not read? listen to what you said, "for when it says "today" as a day prophesied and that is yet to come in the future, it still refers to a day in created time," NOT always, NO, and I say NO again, and here,'s why, scripture, Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us." Luke 23:40 "But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?" Luke 23:41 "And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss." Luke 23:42 "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

question TIME: "did the theft go to paradise that ... "DAY", when spoken "To DAY?" no, of cource not, for the Lord Jesus himself didn't go to paradise that DAY.. "To day" because he went to the spirits in prison, and preached to them that was once disobedient, and that was for three "days" in this creation, hello,(see 1 Peter 3:19). so when spoken, he said, "To day shalt " and the term SHALT is the second person singular of shall. shall is FUTURE, but is it in this created time? NO, for when the rich man was in Hell he could not pass into paradise, where Abraham and lazarus, (or the GENTILES) was. for the name lazarus is synonyms with GENTIL ENTRANCE into the KINGDOM, it is the Greek word,
G2976 Λάζαρος Lazaros (la'-za-ros) n/p.
Lazarus (i.e. Elazar), the name of two Israelites (one imaginary).
[probably of Hebrew origin (H499)]
KJV: Lazarus
Root(s): H499

see the Name, Lazarus (i.e. Elazar), Elazar was a "GENTILE" of Abraham household. supportive scripture, Genesis 15:1 "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward." Genesis 15:2 "And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?" Genesis 15:3 "And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir." and the GENTILE we know is of Abraham of Fath, which he Abraham is the father of those in FAITH to God.

so, Eliezer of Damascus was the ONLY heir of Abram INHERITANCE .... a Gentile BORN in his HOUSE. stood to INHERIT all. but we know now the INHERITANCE is in God, as well as all people.

so just as the Hebrews, and Believing Jews and the Gentiles was "THAT" .... "DAY" in Pardise, the unbelieving Jews was in danger of not being in pardise that ..... "DAY", which is yet to come in the NEW CREATION, and not in this OLD CREATION.

so the term "today", do not nesseary means in this CREATION... to day. so your ERROR is CORRECTED.

PICJAG, 101G
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
The truth in 17:3 does not change the truth in 17:5. The fact remains the Son declared He was together with the Father BEFORE CREATION.

You lose so pack it up or repent of your false Christ and join the team that will be in heaven, not hell.

hope this helps !!!
That is right that the truth in John 17:3 doesn't change what Jesus said in John 17:5 and neither does Jesus say that the glory he is speaking that he had with the Father is glory as being God himself either and in fact the context starting in verse 1 reveals what glory Jesus is still speaking of in verse 5.

That glory was his hour of suffering and through which he would both he and the Father would be glorified by but for different parts in it, for God it would be because he sent the Son to die for our sins and for the Jesus the Christ it would be because he obeyed God in this and died for our sins, but in John 17:5 Jesus is speaking of God's foreknowledge of Jesus and his glory in suffering unto death for our sins.

You will notice that Jesus spoke of this glory in other places of the NT also like in John 12 below.


John 12:23 Jesus replied, “The hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified. 24 Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds. 25 Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26 Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.

27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save me from this hour’? No, it was for this very reason I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify your name!”



Furthermore, this is the glory that Isaiah saw and wrote about in the whole chapter of Isaiah 53 and which John mentions in the same context of John 12 below.

John 12:41 "Isaiah said this (Isaiah 53 the whole chapter and chapter 6:9-10) because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him".

This is yet another passage of scripture that you totally butcher in favor of your addiction to your human fabricated tradition and false doctrine that Isaiah was speaking of chapter 6:1-5 and which John never makes mention of as what he is referring to but rather Isaiah 53 the whole chapter and the reason why Israel couldn't see the truth about this in Isaiah 6:9-10.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
ERROR, did you not read? listen to what you said, "for when it says "today" as a day prophesied and that is yet to come in the future, it still refers to a day in created time," NOT always, NO, and I say NO again, and here,'s why, scripture, Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us." Luke 23:40 "But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?" Luke 23:41 "And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss." Luke 23:42 "And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

question TIME: "did the theft go to paradise that ... "DAY", when spoken "To DAY?" no, of cource not, for the Lord Jesus himself didn't go to paradise that DAY.. "To day" because he went to the spirits in prison, and preached to them that was once disobedient, and that was for three "days" in this creation, hello,(see 1 Peter 3:19). so when spoken, he said, "To day shalt " and the term SHALT is the second person singular of shall. shall is FUTURE, but is it in this created time? NO, for when the rich man was in Hell he could not pass into paradise, where Abraham and lazarus, (or the GENTILES) was. for the name lazarus is synonyms with GENTIL ENTRANCE into the KINGDOM, it is the Greek word,
G2976 Λάζαρος Lazaros (la'-za-ros) n/p.
Lazarus (i.e. Elazar), the name of two Israelites (one imaginary).
[probably of Hebrew origin (H499)]
KJV: Lazarus
Root(s): H499

see the Name, Lazarus (i.e. Elazar), Elazar was a "GENTILE" of Abraham household. supportive scripture, Genesis 15:1 "After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward." Genesis 15:2 "And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?" Genesis 15:3 "And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir." and the GENTILE we know is of Abraham of Fath, which he Abraham is the father of those in FAITH to God.

so, Eliezer of Damascus was the ONLY heir of Abram INHERITANCE .... a Gentile BORN in his HOUSE. stood to INHERIT all. but we know now the INHERITANCE is in God, as well as all people.

so just as the Hebrews, and Believing Jews and the Gentiles was "THAT" .... "DAY" in Pardise, the unbelieving Jews was in danger of not being in pardise that ..... "DAY", which is yet to come in the NEW CREATION, and not in this OLD CREATION.

so the term "today", do not nesseary means in this CREATION... to day. so your ERROR is CORRECTED.

PICJAG, 101G
I only accept the truth from the scriptures and the witness of the Holy Spirit and not the carnal human reasoning concerning the scripture of those in whose nostrils is the breath of life but who are not led by the Spirit and which is you and civic dude.

Isaiah 2:
Stop trusting in mere humans,
who have but a breath in their nostrils.
Why hold them in esteem?


By the way, the above was spoken in regard to Isaiah's full prophecy of chapter 2 and which involves the day we are presently living in and the things that will very soon come to pass also and therefore it is a warning about the condition of men at that time, for very few would know and speak the truth and that is why God spoke this as a warning to Isaiah.
 

101G

Well-known member
That is right that the truth in John 17:3 doesn't change what Jesus said in John 17:5 and neither does Jesus say that the glory he is speaking that he had with the Father is glory as being God himself either
just reconcicle John 1:3 with Isaiah 44:24 and one will see the Glory as to who MADE ALL THINGS. no need to respond,

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
just reconcicle John 1:3 with Isaiah 44:24 and one will see the Glory as to who MADE ALL THINGS. no need to respond,

PICJAG, 101G.
I don't have to, because God did that for me through the discernment given me by the Holy Spirit and the fact that you are doing the reconciling of it for yourself is the very reason why you will never understand it correctly or come to the truth about it either.

You need to give up on your own mind on the scriptures so you can receive the mind of God on them instead and from the Spirit and which was also in Christ Jesus and as per 1 Corinthians 2:13-16.
 

101G

Well-known member
I don't have to, because God did that for me through the discernment given me by the Holy Spirit and the fact that you are doing the reconciling for yourself is the very reason why you will never understand it correctly or come to the truth about it either.
just like the discernment, which you gave on "WITH".... (smile)...

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
just like the discernment, which you gave on "WITH".... (smile)...

PICJAG, 101G.
Your problem is that you are using the wrong mind to try and determine what the scriptures mean.

Therefore you need to give up on your own mind and thinking on the scriptures, so that you can receive the mind of God on them instead and from the discernment of the Spirit and the same Spirit which was also in Christ Jesus and as per Paul's words about it 1 Corinthians 2:13-16.
 

101G

Well-known member
Your problem is that you are using the wrong mind to try and determine what the scriptures mean.

Therefore you need to give up on your own mind and thinking on the scriptures, so that you can receive the mind of God on them instead and from the discernment of the Spirit and the same Spirit which was also in Christ Jesus and as per Paul's words about it 1 Corinthians 2:13-16.
so no rebuttal... thought so.

PICJAG, 101G
 

cjab

Well-known member
In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus.

This is how one exegetes the passage rather than using eisegesis- reading ones own thoughts and ideas into the text.

hope this helps !!!
I think it is you who use eisegesis rather than scripture in your attempt to impute the untrammelled (except by his own volition) and enthroned deity in Jesus the man.

First the obvious point: Jesus relied entirely on the Father and not on himself (Matt 26:53 "Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?")

The second point is that his complete humanity is always emphasized. "Son of man" appears rather frequently (Psa 80:17, Dan 7:13 & NT many times) in his references to himself, suggesting that he was just a man (see also Heb 2:17, Rom 5:15, Act 2:22, 1Ti 2:5).

The third point is that the bible records in what sense the fulness of the deity lived in Jesus the man, which isn't the sense in which you claim, i.e. he was "full of the Holy Spirit without measure" (Luk 4:1, John 3:34).

The fourth point is that Jesus said that he was "sent from God" If he was "sent," it does suggest that he left something behind. One doesn't usually carry all one's effects with one on a journey (Jhn 1:33, Jhn 4:34, Jhn 5:24 etc).

The fifth point is that if he didn't relinquish anything, then he never descended from the throne of God (John 3:13). Therefore his resurrection to heaven was also a sham, because he never left heaven. Thus you deny the scripture (John 6:62, Acts 1:9, Philippians 2:8, 9) and the Apostles creed (i.e. "He ascended into heaven").

He who possesses ALL the attributes of God MUST be enthroned as God, by definition.
 
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johnny guitar

Well-known member
I think it is you who use eisegesis rather than scripture in your attempt to impute the untrammelled (except by his own volition) and enthroned deity in Jesus the man.

First the obvious point: Jesus relied entirely on the Father and not on himself (Matt 26:53 "Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?")

The second point is that his complete humanity is always emphasized. "Son of man" appears rather frequently (Psa 80:17, Dan 7:13 & NT many times) in his references to himself, suggesting that he was just a man (see also Heb 2:17, Rom 5:15, Act 2:22, 1Ti 2:5).

The third point is that the bible records in what sense the fulness of the deity lived in Jesus the man, which isn't the sense in which you claim, i.e. he was "full of the Holy Spirit without measure" (Luk 4:1, John 3:34).

The fourth point is that Jesus said that he was "sent from God" If he was "sent," it does suggest that he left something behind. One doesn't usually carry all one's effects with one on a journey (Jhn 1:33, Jhn 4:34, Jhn 5:24 etc).

The fifth point is that if he didn't relinquish anything, then he never descended from the throne of God (John 3:13). Therefore his resurrection to heaven was also a sham, because he never left heaven. Thus you deny the scripture (John 6:62, Acts 1:9, Philippians 2:8, 9) and the Apostles creed (i.e. "He ascended into heaven").

He who possesses ALL the attributes of God MUST be enthroned as God, by definition.
Col. 1:19, 2:9 are NOT referring to The Holy Spirit who does NOT dwell in anyone BODILY.
NO N.T. passage remotely suggests Jesus was "just" a Man.
He was/is a Man who is ALSO God WITH US.
 

cjab

Well-known member
Col. 1:19, 2:9 are NOT referring to The Holy Spirit who does NOT dwell in anyone BODILY.
Each Christian is "sealed" by the Holy Spirit: Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30. It is a bodily sealing.

NO N.T. passage remotely suggests Jesus was "just" a Man.
I agree Jesus denoted himself as the "son of God" but it doesn't help your argument, for why would Jesus denote himself as the "son of God" if in fact he was enthroned as God with all the attributes of God?

He was/is a Man who is ALSO God WITH US.
As much of God as mankind is ever going to get of God, to be sure.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Each Christian is "sealed" by the Holy Spirit: Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30. It is a bodily sealing.


I agree Jesus denoted himself as the "son of God" but it doesn't help your argument, for why would Jesus denote himself as the "son of God" if in fact he was enthroned as God with all the attributes of God?


As much of God as mankind is ever going to get of God, to be sure.
NO Christian has The Holy Spirit dwelling in Him BODILY.
Jesus denoted Himself as The Divine Son of The Father.
 

aeg4971

Active member
Hebrews 1:3 "Who is the brightness of God's glory and the etched copy (charakter) of the foundation of God's person and upholding all things by the rhema of God's power"

Sorry but that Greek word "Charakter and the history of what it was used to speak of reveals that the writer of Hebrew was saying that God copied his Logos from his own nature into the human nature and person of Jesus Christ and then required Jesus to keep what he copied into him through perfect obedience and through every temptation that all men also deal with.
Sorry but your modern English speaking humanism trying to tell us what the Greeks meant is laughable . The ancient Greeks did not divide the substance whatever the meant and whatever they said. History of Christendom only shows that the Latins could render what the Greeks meant. We know common English is mostly derived from Latin . It is difficult to comprehend Greek nuance without the Latins . We can't just break out the Greek concordance with English humanism to adequately express Greek nuance in words and terms. Only the Latins could.

The scriptures written in King James English











































































































































More carnal human reasoning, for it doesn't matter that it is prophecy, for when it says "today" as a day prophesied and that is yet to come in the future, it still refers to a day in created time, for there are no days in regards to eternity and days only began to exist during the creation. .
You literally render the scriptures like a novel but others are carnal. Whatever helps you sleep better at night.
 

cjab

Well-known member
NO Christian has The Holy Spirit dwelling in Him BODILY.
We are talking about Jesus Christ, not a mere Christian. The real question is what "In Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells" means as constrasted to "emptied himself" in Phil 2:6. Note that in Col 2:9 the tense is present, suggesting the living, elevated, resurrected and ascended Christ, existing at date of the letter to the Colossians. However, if perchance it does refer back to the man Jesus Christ, then we have to accord the meaning of "fullness of the deity" in Col 2:9 to the "indwelling of the Holy Spirit + the Word incarnate in Jesus' divine person (i.e. his soul)" to be consistent with Phil 2:6.

Jesus denoted Himself as The Divine Son of The Father.
And yet he was limited in operation by his human form. He was unable to perform the actions of divinity except by obedience to his Father and by the power of the Holy Spirit.
 
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