Kenosis Heresy

civic

Well-known member
Your proof he was equal is this verse. You can cherry pick the version if you like but that is not proof.

Where's the proof?


  1. He was in the form of God; yet he laid no claim to equality with God, 7 but made himself nothing, assuming the form of a slave. (Revised English Bible)
  2. For the divine nature was his from the first; yet he did not think to snatch at equality with God, but made himself nothing, assuming the nature of a slave. (New English Bible)
  3. His nature is, from the first, divine, and yet he did not see, in the rank of Godhead, a prize to be coveted; (Knox)
  4. who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God (Darby)
cheery picking translations I see. :)

is not that the same thing you accused me of roger ?
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
cheery picking translations I see. :)

is not that the same thing you accused me of roger ?
I have not argued that these versions prove a particular view, I offer them to balance assertions that Jesus was equal to God from the cherry picked versions.
 

101G

Well-known member
I offer them to balance assertions that Jesus was equal to God from the cherry picked versions.
Version is no excuse, go to only VERSION... the Holy Ghost who will weed out the verses for you, and you want have to cherry pick in ignorance.

PIICJAG, 101G
 

101G

Well-known member
Let me say something about this cherry picking excuse. right, that's an excuse, for the bible states, 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

well one better search the scriptures, for our Lord said so, John 5:39 "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

the use of Cherry picking is only an excuse if the scriptures are not beneficial or profitable to YOUR DOCTRINE whoever. for TRUE doctrine COME FOM GOD. Listen,
Isaiah 28:9 "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts."
Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:"
Isaiah 28:11 "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people."

one cannot UNDERSTAND "HIS" doctrine unless God reveal to to you. and if one LACK WISDOM, ask God who give it, but ask in FAITH.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Version is no excuse, go to only VERSION... the Holy Ghost who will weed out the verses for you, and you want have to cherry pick in ignorance.

PIICJAG, 101G

Lol! Do you have a burning in your bosom? The "Holy Spirit" tells some people you are wrong and Mormans have a burning in their bosom.

That's no substitute for a proper handling of God's word.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Bible versions are split as to whether Phil says he was equal. I say no.


  1. He was in the form of God; yet he laid no claim to equality with God, 7 but made himself nothing, assuming the form of a slave. (Revised English Bible)
  2. For the divine nature was his from the first; yet he did not think to snatch at equality with God, but made himself nothing, assuming the nature of a slave. (New English Bible)
  3. His nature is, from the first, divine, and yet he did not see, in the rank of Godhead, a prize to be coveted; (Knox)
  4. who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God (Darby)
ALL Bibles in use today affirm His equality with God in Phil. 2.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Your proof he was equal is this verse. You can cherry pick the version if you like but that is not proof.

Where's the proof?


  1. He was in the form of God; yet he laid no claim to equality with God, 7 but made himself nothing, assuming the form of a slave. (Revised English Bible)
  2. For the divine nature was his from the first; yet he did not think to snatch at equality with God, but made himself nothing, assuming the nature of a slave. (New English Bible)
  3. His nature is, from the first, divine, and yet he did not see, in the rank of Godhead, a prize to be coveted; (Knox)
  4. who, subsisting in the form of God, did not esteem it an object of rapine to be on an equality with God (Darby)
Esoteric versions used by NO ONE.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
no it is implied in the term "EQUAL",. for there is no one EQUAL ... "TO" God but there is one who is "EQUAL.... "WITH" God. see the difference? equal "WITH", and not "EQUAL "TO".

did you not READ in Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

did you notice the "with" there the "First is "WITH" the Last, the same "WITH" in John 1:1 in the Word being "WITH" GOD.... correct, well lets see the Revelation of the "WITH" in both scriptures,and as in Phil 2:6, listen,
Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."

JUST as the First is with the Last, who is also the same person, likewise the Word in John 1:1 is the same one Person, likewise in Phil 2:6 the same one person is EQUAL.... "WITH" ... God. HELLO... meaning the SAME ONE PERSON.

see the bible will interperte it ownself if you let it, meaning HIM, his Holy Word.


PICJAG, 101G.
Equal with or to; I fail to see the difference.
 

101G

Well-known member
Equal with or to; I fail to see the difference.
thanks for the reply, here's the revelation, "TO" indicate a separate Person, hence two or MORE. but WITH, here in the BILE concering the Godhead, "WITH" is correct, because it's the SAME ONE PERSON that is as the Greek word allos describe G243 the NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE, but the SAME "SORT". and the same SORT means the same ONE PERSON in the Godhead. and that's the NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE in EQUAL"SHARE", concering the Godhead.

we suggest you examine the TERM G243 Allos, which Vine give a good discription, and understand that being EQUAL "TO" as here in the Godhead is to be a SEPERATE PERSON of two or more. this how many fail in understanding the Godhead. Seperation of persons vs the SHARED, one person, that the difference between "TO", and "WITH". one Person vs two or more. so the other person must and have to be seperate.

and God said there is no other separate person that is EQUAL to him, and Him is a single person, and God makes this very CLEAR in Scripture,

Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One."

Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?"

so no one is EQUAL "TO" GOD, meaning another person that is NOT HIM. and "I" which indicate a single person, then to be equal "TO" him, there must be another separate person. and God make it's crystal clear that there is no second, or third person bedide him,

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

the term "BESIDE" means, in addition to; apart from. and he said there is NO one "beside" him.

Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

"I" again is a single person designation. and God said clearly that he KNOWS no one else.

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:"

Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me."

BUT J.G, HERE'S THE KILLER SCRIPTURE. IT KILLS TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE.

Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."

and how do we know that this is the CHRIST, the Lord... Jesus? answer, the very next verses, Isaiah 35:5 "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped." Isaiah 35:6 "Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert."

anyone knows that this is JESUS the Lord, who did this?, God, even thy God, who came in flesh, the Ordinal Last.

now looking back at verse 4, "behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God " .... EVEN GOD? so for those who say Jesus is not God ... the bible say they ERROR.

but the ONENESS of God is plain as day, in diversity of ONE PERSON, ... ONLY. here, it said "your God will come with vengeance, even God", when he said, "EVEN" GOD, BINGO. that narrowed it down to only ONE PERSON, for the Son is that ONE PERSON who is "WITH" God as the Last, the Ordinal Last., but the same one person who is "EQUAL" .... WITH, ............ just as the First is "ALSO", the Last. also means, in addition; too.. but remember the term "BESIDE" and God said there is NO ONE beside him, so that only leaves HIM in the ECHAD. my God this is too easy.

for the "First" is WITH the Last, again, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." SEE THE "I" THERE. and the First is ALSO the Last, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." .................. "I ALSO AM?",

POINT MADE,

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
thanks for the reply, here's the revelation, "TO" indicate a separate Person, hence two or MORE. but WITH, here in the BILE concering the Godhead, "WITH" is correct, because it's the SAME ONE PERSON that is as the Greek word allos describe G243 the NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE, but the SAME "SORT". and the same SORT means the same ONE PERSON in the Godhead. and that's the NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE in EQUAL"SHARE", concering the Godhead.

we suggest you examine the TERM G243 Allos, which Vine give a good discription, and understand that being EQUAL "TO" as here in the Godhead is to be a SEPERATE PERSON of two or more. this how many fail in understanding the Godhead. Seperation of persons vs the SHARED, one person, that the difference between "TO", and "WITH". one Person vs two or more. so the other person must and have to be seperate.

and God said there is no other separate person that is EQUAL to him, and Him is a single person, and God makes this very CLEAR in Scripture,

Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One."

Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?"

so no one is EQUAL "TO" GOD, meaning another person that is NOT HIM. and "I" which indicate a single person, then to be equal "TO" him, there must be another separate person. and God make it's crystal clear that there is no second, or third person bedide him,

Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

the term "BESIDE" means, in addition to; apart from. and he said there is NO one "beside" him.

Isaiah 44:8 "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any."

"I" again is a single person designation. and God said clearly that he KNOWS no one else.

Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:"

Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me."

BUT J.G, HERE'S THE KILLER SCRIPTURE. IT KILLS TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE.

Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you."

and how do we know that this is the CHRIST, the Lord... Jesus? answer, the very next verses, Isaiah 35:5 "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped." Isaiah 35:6 "Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert."

anyone knows that this is JESUS the Lord, who did this?, God, even thy God, who came in flesh, the Ordinal Last.

now looking back at verse 4, "behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God " .... EVEN GOD? so for those who say Jesus is not God ... the bible say they ERROR.

but the ONENESS of God is plain as day, in diversity of ONE PERSON, ... ONLY. here, it said "your God will come with vengeance, even God", when he said, "EVEN" GOD, BINGO. that narrowed it down to only ONE PERSON, for the Son is that ONE PERSON who is "WITH" God as the Last, the Ordinal Last., but the same one person who is "EQUAL" .... WITH, ............ just as the First is "ALSO", the Last. also means, in addition; too.. but remember the term "BESIDE" and God said there is NO ONE beside him, so that only leaves HIM in the ECHAD. my God this is too easy.

for the "First" is WITH the Last, again, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." SEE THE "I" THERE. and the First is ALSO the Last, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." .................. "I ALSO AM?",

POINT MADE,

PICJAG, 101G.
Concerning God I means a single BEING.
 

101G

Well-known member
The Son of God is DISTINCT Person from The Father and Holy Spirit.
are you sure? lets see. you say the son of God is JESUS correct...... scripture, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

the "COMFORTER" is the Holy Spirit right.... now this, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:". this is Jesus also ... correct. is not the advocate the the "COMFORTER?"

ADVOCATE:
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

is this not the same word for "Comforter, in John 14:16, and the INTERCESSOR, WHO is the HOLY SPIRIT that pray for us? in Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
see, this is why I always say GO TO GOD for teaching..... 1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

John 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

why the Holy Ghost TEACH US? 1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

THAT'S WHY, THE BIBLE IS "SPIRITUAL", and must be taught from the Spirit prospective and not man's prospective.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
are you sure? lets see. you say the son of God is JESUS correct...... scripture, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

the "COMFORTER" is the Holy Spirit right.... now this, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:". this is Jesus also ... correct. is not the advocate the the "COMFORTER?"

ADVOCATE:
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

is this not the same word for "Comforter, in John 14:16, and the INTERCESSOR, WHO is the HOLY SPIRIT that pray for us? in Romans 8:26 "Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

PICJAG, 101G.
So Jesus Christ is our advocate and The Holy Spirit is our intercessor.
UNTO The Father THROUGH The Son BY The Holy Spirit.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Esoteric versions used by NO ONE.
That has no bearing on their accuracy. That being said, many modern translations do render it "grasped" in of which the Oxford English Dictionary says means "seize and hold firmly."

To seize something is to take hold of something one does not already have.
 

101G

Well-known member
So Jesus Christ is our advocate and The Holy Spirit is our intercessor.
UNTO The Father THROUGH The Son BY The Holy Spirit.
so... NO, the Holy Spirit is Jesus, who holds the titles Father, and son, in the ECHAD.

listen JG, and try to understand. the "ANOTHER"... G243 allos, COMFORTER is the Lord Jesus himself Glorified in Spirit, per Revelation 5:6.

and he the Lord Jesus standing in front of his discoples in John 14 is the "Comforter" in natural flesh, not glorified, per Luke 2:25. this is why the "ANOTHER" ... G243 Allos ... "COMFORTER", to come. do you understand now?

do you, if not just ask.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

101G

Well-known member
@johnny guitar, let us help you out.
The Lord Jesus in flesh as the “COMFORTER”.
Luke 2:25 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him."

that word “consolation” is a “HELPER”, which the Holy Spirit is, the HELPER

CONSOLATION: G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis (pa-ra'-klee-sis) n.
1. an imploration, entreaty (urgent request (for mercy or help)).
2. an exhortation (urgent counsel, encouragement, or caution).
3. a comfort, solace.
[from G3870]
KJV: comfort, consolation, exhortation, intreaty

one who gives COMFORT is a “COMFORTER”, one who gives “Help”, is a HELPER…. BINGO.

and the confirmation is in the term “ counsel” in definition #2. in morden terms counsel for the defense.... an ADVOCATE. BINGO
Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

COUNSELLER: H3289 יָעַץ ya`ats (yaw-ats') v.
1. to advise.
2. (reflexively) to deliberate or resolve.
[a primitive root]
KJV: advertise, take advise, advise (well), consult, (give, take) counsel(-lor), determine, devise, guide, purpose.

GUIDE? John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

a Counsellor, is what we call today, a lawyer, or an attorney, a legal adviser. BINGO...

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
That has no bearing on their accuracy. That being said, many modern translations do render it "grasped" in of which the Oxford English Dictionary says means "seize and hold firmly."

To seize something is to take hold of something one does not already have.
Grasp means to clutch tightly. H. Aaron grasped the bat as He approached the plate.
 
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