Kenosis Heresy

Yes.
I answered this in post 1036 to you. "the form of God" is the man Christ Jesus.

I disagree with your explanation.

As I said "existing" in the form of God, means Christ Jesus is God in a human form.
Hebrews 1 supports this.
NRSV Hebrews 1: 1 Long ago God spoke to our ancestors in many and various ways by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom he also created the worlds. 3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact imprint of God’s very being, and he sustains all things by his powerful word. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high...8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

I don't know what "huparchon" means. I need to see it in the greek or in the verse of scripture you are taking it from to look it up.

Yes, I understand, for the most part, what Trinitarians believe. I'm really not concerned with that in this thread nor whether they believe morphe applies to before or after the incarnation. I want to know what they believe about the kenosis theory. What does kenosis "emptying" mean to them. And if it's a limitation of the Son of God's divine attritibutes, how far does that limitation go. This is basically why I am in this thread. And that's why I didn't address Phil 2, it wasn't what I was interested in. And if Jesus is limiting his divine attributes, how do they explain the verses where Jesus grows in wisdom and has to be taught. I was drawn into this thread by the subject and Civic's explanation in the opening post. I'm not really interested in discussing the Biblical Unitarian view of this subject...sorry.
Jesus accepted the limottaions inherit with becoming himan, save was sinless in His nature, and choose to limit using inherit divine attributes!
 
He was both God and a sinless Human, and in his humanity experienced all the things that we do, including growing up and learning!
so did he know and not know something at the same time in the same way? or a God in heaven he knew something but as a man on earth he didn't know something?
 
Jesus is God, as are also eternally the father and the Holy Spirit!
Yes, I understand that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all God (meaning nature). Thats your doctrine. But when God is said to speak or act, ( a nature cannot act or speak) then the definition of God changes to a person yet it's impossible to determine what one person of God is speaking or acting using the first person singular pronouns to speak of himself..
 
Yes, I understand that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all God (meaning nature). Thats your doctrine. But when God is said to speak or act, ( a nature cannot act or speak) then the definition of God changes to a person yet it's impossible to determine what one person of God is speaking or acting using the first person singular pronouns to speak of himself..
The Ftaher always spoke to israel in the Persons of the Son, or the Holy Spirit, as in the Spirit of the Lord came upon the Prophets, or the Angel of the Lord!
 
John Chapter 1 in the Greek NT very clear that he is!
Jesus said many are called but few are chosen and therefore only those who are chosen will understand the very spiritual words of the scriptures and which is why you don't, for it is the difference between understanding by the Holy Spirit and understanding by the natural man or flesh and which is why you just don't get.

This is also why I am not going to keep answering to the same arguments that you are making over and over again either, for it is a waste time.
 
Jesus said many are called but few are chosen and therefore only those who are chosen will understand the very spiritual words of the scriptures and which is why you don't, for it is the difference between understanding by the Holy Spirit and understanding by the natural man or flesh and which is why you just don't get.

This is also why I am not going to keep answering to the same arguments that you are making over and over again either, for it is a waste time.
Wow. So you are chosen and he isn't.
You reveal who you are.
 
Wow. So you are chosen and he isn't.
You reveal who you are.
A false prophet wearing sheep's clothing can only be known by his fruit and the fruit of a prophet is his words and his words reveal whether he is speaking the truth of God or not, even though he covers himself with activities that look like those of a true sheep.

However, only the true sheep will know who is and who isn't because only the true sheep will understand the word of God in Spirit and Truth to make that kind of a judgment and while every one else will be confused by it. .

Paul put it this way also in 2 Timothy 3:5, for they "have a form "morphosin" of godliness but deny the the actual power and substance thereof" and therefore it is by their words that they are known to those who are truly led and taught by the Spirit and as Paul very clearly states in the passage below.


1 Corinthians 2:13-16

13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

15 The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,

16 for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him? But we (who are truly taught by the Spirit) have the mind of Christ.
 
The prophets many times statedd that the word of the Lord came to them, and that was the Logos of God described for us in John 1, Angel of the Lord spoke for Yahweh, and acted as if was God Himself!
I don't understand what your point is.
Wait, I went back to your post where you replied "The Ftaher always spoke to israel in the Persons of the Son, or the Holy Spirit, as in the Spirit of the Lord came upon the Prophets, or the Angel of the Lord!" You are saying the Father speaks as God in general, and the Holy Spirit when speaking through the Prophets, and the Son of God speaks when the Angel of the Lord or the Logos speaks. So in this way when God speaks, 1 of the persons is speaking and the first personal pronouns correlate. Is that correct? Do you think it is deceitful of God to give the impression to the Israelites that He is one person when they are his witness to the world? Isaiah 43: 10-15 Why not make the trinity clear to them in the OT?
This is your proof and I know you can find scriptures to prove these things and if I searched I could probably find difficult passages not so easy to explain.
One question: Do you think it is deceitful of God to give the impression to the Israelites that He is one person when they are his witness to the world? Isaiah 43: 10-15 They never proclaimed that God was a trinity of persons.
 
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The Logos as used by Apostle John described the Lord jesus as eternally existing with God the Father, and to being very God Himself, as there are many times in the Greek NT when father described without the Theos appearing, would that mean that father not God then, using your logic concerning Jesus?
Why is it that you cannot see then that John never says that the two are one God but rather of one God called the Logos and who was with another just called The God?

Where does he say that the two are the same God?

This is what happens when you attempt to figure out Spirit taught words with the natural wisdom and reasoning of the flesh, for he is only speaking of one God and the words "and the Logos was God" without the article are meant to be understood by the definition of the word Logos itself.

For the definition of Logos is what reveals in what sense the Logos was God without the article and it isn't speaking of another person of God or the same person The God either, but rather of God in regards to his mind, thinking and Divine plan in Christ Jesus in his foreknowledge of him.

When John says "and the Logos was with "pros" God" he is referring to God reciprocating with or towards "pros" his own mind and thoughts = the Logos concerning the future human Son that he would send to make the creation worth creating while knowing in advance that it would be ruined by sin.
 
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I don't understand what your point is.
Wait, I went back to your post where you replied "The Ftaher always spoke to israel in the Persons of the Son, or the Holy Spirit, as in the Spirit of the Lord came upon the Prophets, or the Angel of the Lord!" You are saying the Father speaks as God in general, and the Holy Spirit when speaking through the Prophets, and the Son of God speaks when the Angel of the Lord or the Logos speaks. So in this way when God speaks, 1 of the persons is speaking and the first personal pronouns correlate. Is that correct? Do you think it is deceitful of God to give the impression to the Israelites that He is one person when they are his witness to the world? Isaiah 43: 10-15 Why not make the trinity clear to them in the OT?
This is your proof and I know you can find scriptures to prove these things and if I searched I could probably find difficult passages not so easy to explain.
One question: Do you think it is deceitful of God to give the impression to the Israelites that He is one person when they are his witness to the world? Isaiah 43: 10-15 They never proclaimed that God was a trinity of persons.
They were aware of there being the Spirit of the Lord, and that the Angel of the Lord was somehow God appearing to them, but they were ignorant of it fully as rwegarding God being a Trinity, as that would wait until the full progressive revelation of God in person of Jesus Christ!
 
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