A metaphor that contains an implied simile, but what's this got to do with Num 23:19?
johnny guitar
Well-known member
God NEVER ceases to be God or He was NEVER God to begin with.
True enough. It's why the God the Father never ceased to be God.
johnny guitar
Well-known member
And neither did The Son or The Holy Spirit.
So because you have the Holy Spirit, this makes you God does it? No, and for this reason: the Holy Spirit in you is not on God's throne. It is "of God" not "God himself." In the same way the man Jesus was "of God" not God himself. And then you need to grasp why "God was the Word", and also why the bible doesn't say "The God was the Word" but rather "The Word was with The God."
And when you have taken all these things into account, then get back to me with something sensible.
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johnny guitar
Well-known member
No. having the indwelling Holy Spirit does not make me God. And The Word was God.
Anymore asinine statements or questions????
OldShepherd
Well-known member
I don't know what you intended to say but your double negative invalidates it. Want to try again and say something logical.
If the Holy Spirit was God, as you say, having the Holy Spirit would make you God, to be sure.
How was it logical to connect God becoming a man with "God is not a man?"
OldShepherd
Well-known member
Is this supposed to be a logical question? When the prophet said "God is not a man," that is present tense which does not prevent God from becoming anything He chooses to be in the future. A logical conclusion.
Well then, why did you accuse me of saying "I don't want to be around when you tell God He can't become a man if He chooses to. "
How could me citing "God is not a man" per Numbers possibly lead you to the conclusion that God can't become a man (in the future), as a matter of principle, by your own definition of the word God which is any one of three persons of the Trinity?
I concede you might have had a logical (but not legitimate) case for critiquing me if you had properly associated "God" in Numbers with the Father of Christ. But then your critique would have been limited to "I don't want to be around when you tell the Father of Christ that He can't become a man if He chooses to." And I would have said to you, when did the Father of Christ become a man?
So your critique is only made possible by your ambiguity over the very word "God," where you're constantly changing what the word means, even as between the old and new testaments, and the person to whom it refers, to make baseless and pointless accusations of the kind you made.
G
guest1
Guest
John 1:4 means the Son/ Word/ God is the source of all life. Life is found in Him.
The beginning of creation doesn't mean He is the first One to be created. That's absolutely nonsense! It means He is the beginning and in Him all things consist.
Col 1:17: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
16 Because in Him were created all that are in the heavens and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or rulerships or principalities or authorities – all have been created through Him and for Him.
God is transcendent - and is unapproachable. I don't know how you and other unitarians can ever even try to approach Him. People who try to reach Him will be pushed out to outer darkness.
We have Him in a mirror image in the Person of Christ - Who is The living Word of God- who proceeded from transcendent God and accomplishing all things goes back to Him. There is no creature who has access like Him. IOW, He is the same God in creation with duality of powers. He is the revelation of basically unknown transcendent and invisible God.
People with limited knowledge make Him either super human or demi-god.
We know from scriptures the Angels were put in place to serve us in God's salvation plan:
Heb 1:14 Aren’t they all serving spirits, sent out to do service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation.
That's your personal opinion and not based on scriptures.
You have to rule out everything what scriptures say about Who Christ/The Word/Torah is to adhere to private interpretations.
That's a different thing when Christ didn't use for a while His reputation of being in the form of God. Don't you know that The Spirit of God, Spirit of The Father and The Spirit of Christ one the same? Christ means the Anointed One for specific ministry He came to do on earth. He was born of The Holy Spirit which is also The Son of The Father.
How many times to tell you that The Title Father is specifically used for covenant relationship between God and Israel, His first born son?
Exod 4:22 You shall tell Pharaoh, ‘The LORD says, Israel is my son, my firstborn,
Compare with Ron 8;29: For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
So Christ as The Son of God represents Israel as the first born son - who failed to keep the Torah.
Hos 11:1 “When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Mat 2:15 15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called my son.”
Israel/Jacob being the heir of all God's promises, Christ being The Son of God, took the place of a Mediator between God and Israel.
Gal 4:
1 But I say that so long as the heir is a child, he is no different from a bondservant, though he is lord of all,
2 but is under guardians and stewards until the day appointed by the father.
3 So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental principles of the world.
4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent out his Son, born to a woman, born under the law,
5 that he might redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as children.
6 And because you are children, God sent out the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, “Abba, Father.
The problem is you are trying to solve a problem with a problem from your own mind. His Name is called thus because The Son was to be born. So when He is born, The Jews have no excuse. So, you are also without excuse.
The Son told His disciples 'You believe in God, believe also in Me - John 14:1.
The Counselor here is not in general sense of other counselors. It's in the sense of the revelation of the purpose of God. The Holy Spirit is the counselor that takes from God/Christ and reveals to us. That's why He is the Spirit of God/Christ
It depends on what one believes - either Christ as God or demi-god. You are not clear in what you are trying to prove. You are arguing with both Trinitarians, YWI and with me also.
I keep Torah of God at topmost while interpreting scriptures because that's the basis on which New Covenant stands written in our minds and hearts - Heb 8:8-11.
After all the prophetic scriptures are all about historical Israel and carving out of it a spiritual Israel to which true Christians belong. Without historical Israel, we are all zero as we will never understand God's plan of salvation nor doctrines. Even Eschatology has to do with Israel. Israel as the olive tree - the branches aren't grafted to Christian denominations but rather we as Christians are grafted to the same tree.
There is no God The Son in scriptures but if one understands that He is the same YHWH in duality of powers - The Father as the Ordinal First and The Son as Ordinal Last - all scriptures can be reconciled. Then of course, God is also shown to be in the unapproachable Light and is invisible and also can't be heard. That's why There is His Living Word.
The Father is The Ordinal First and is in covenant relationship with His son Israel through The Ordinal Last, The only begotten Son. The Source and The Means. There is no source without the means. The Means has to have Source.
I have no problems to solve. What made you assume that? Why am I without excuse? What do I have to be excused for?
I argue with everyone, including you. Just get used to it.
The nation of Israel has served it's purpose and plays no further part in eschatology. Jerusalem is currently populated by idolators of every persuasion.
For you there is a God the Son who is God the Father.
And when has the source ever been synonymous with the means?
I never said "the first one to be created." What I quoted was a Greek transliteration into English.
May be I think I will end my reply here. You are directly repudiating scripture with your perverse comment "People who try to reach Him will be pushed out to outer darkness."
Acts 17:27 "God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us."
When you have decided to stop judging me, and misrepresenting God's character, then come back to me (if you want).
Listen carefully to what I said in my previous post about Israel. You can't know of any spiritual Israel without understanding historical be Israel from which spiritual Israel is being carved. I'm not concerned about a middle-east Israel and the so called Jews.
The NT is entirely written to the Jews and the lost sheep of the house of Israel - who transitioned to the new covenant. The two divided houses are reconciled in Christ without even necessitating to go to middle East as we are not under Levitical priesthood but in the order of Melkitsedek priesthood.
Rest all I've explained. Read my posts carefully.
Yes, not for everyone but only the lost sheep of the house of Israel whom God dispersed among heathen nations.
If you read the book of Acts carefully, Apostles went on Sabbaths to preach in synagogues. The Jews had already made many proselytes from their own northern kingdom's dispersed brethren who had mingled with heathen Greeks. So they were looked down upon and considered as uncircumcised.
But it's not only those surrounding lands but they were scattered all around the world from which Christians came to be. Not to mix true Christians with unscriptural Christianity religion. You can call whatever you want - Christians or Messiahnics they be are the same people who believe and follow Christ/Messiah.
The Parable of the Prodigal son points to this truth of the son leaving his father's house to heathen land which bred swines. But after repentance goes back to his father. He was the lost sheep but was found. But his brother who never left his father's house is the Jew. Two houses United in Christ under new covenant:
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he said, “Behold, the days come”, says the Lord, “that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
That's why it's important to understand historical Israel from which spiritual Israel is being carved out. Torah is the basis how scriptures must be interpreted.
Heb 8:10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel. After those days,” says the Lord; “I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
Without the Torah in our hearts we can never understand scriptures in their right perspective.
You don't really understand the doctrine of The Father and The Son:
Mat 11:27 All things have been delivered to me by my Father. No one knows the Son, except the Father; neither does anyone know the Father, except the Son and he to whom the Son desires to reveal him.
It all depends on The Son to reveal the Father. The Son says 'I Am the way, the Truth and the Life' - He is The Torah Himself and in our minds and our hearts to understand God:
Heb 8:11 They will not teach every man his fellow citizen, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all will know me, from their least to their greatest.
If all know Him, then why so many divisions? It's because v10 (previous verse) is not understood.
Not judging you personally but in general sense I told who think that they can reach transcendent God without Christ, The Living Word. In reality putting down Christ as an exalted Man who was just in the mind of God is enough to be pushed out into outer darkness.
And so you concede to slandering me, as well as judging me. Whenever did I say "Christ as an exalted Man who was just in the mind of God?" Hypocrisy, slander and judging others is what will condemn you.