Lamb of God?

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Did Jesus choose to be the Lamb of God or has He eternally been the Lamb of God? A guy on another forum stated, ”When the Word was chosen individually to be the Lamb of God.”So, to me, this comes across as saying there was a time when He was not the Lamb of God.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Did Jesus choose to be the Lamb of God or has He eternally been the Lamb of God? A guy on another forum stated, ”When the Word was chosen individually to be the Lamb of God.”So, to me, this comes across as saying there was a time when He was not the Lamb of God.

The "Lamb of God" is a reference to the sacrifice God provides for sins - God's Lamb. To be a sacrificial Lamb, you must be sacrificable - mortal. You cannot sacrifice an eternal immortal being because they cannot die or be killed. A sacrificial Lamb must be killed or it isn't a sacrificial Lamb. The sacrificial Lamb is by definition a mortal human that you can kill. Otherwise, the term "Lamb of God" isn't a meaningful term.

This Lamb was predestined to be slain from the foundation of the world.

That's all you need to know to answer your question.
 
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guest1

Guest
Did Jesus choose to be the Lamb of God or has He eternally been the Lamb of God? A guy on another forum stated, ”When the Word was chosen individually to be the Lamb of God.”So, to me, this comes across as saying there was a time when He was not the Lamb of God.
Creation was designed with redemption already planned ie predestined.
 

Carbon

Well-known member
Did Jesus choose to be the Lamb of God or has He eternally been the Lamb of God? A guy on another forum stated, ”When the Word was chosen individually to be the Lamb of God.”So, to me, this comes across as saying there was a time when He was not the Lamb of God.
Don’t think there is anyway to know other than by the covenant of redemption.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
There has to be volition to it, the Bible is clear that Jesus chose to lay down his life and no one made him do it.

The only questionable part is the eternality of an attribute dependent upon Christ's created status. From my experience most theologians do not consider Jesus to have eternally been a man, and I would agree. Since his manhood is necessarily connected to his sacrifice, I would consider there was a time he became a Lamb for us just as he became a man for us.

There is one interesting variant about the "Lamb slain before the foundation," but this has some questions marks surrounding it about the application of the "before the foundation" and where it should be, so it seems highly questionable. One other argument did seem plausible to me: God had said Adam would become like "One of Us" knowing good and evil, and only Christ has known evil in an experiential sense. This may argue for an atonement somehow enacted outside of the dimension of time and perhaps therefore integral to the very being of Christ; this leads to some strange time paradoxes, however. OT saints were said to look forward to the "better thing" and it does seem like Christ died within time as he came "in the fullness of time." However, how could blessings and coverings be dispensed pre-atonement, as if on a promissory basis? Yet, this seems to be the Biblical model, or the veil would have been made already rent. It could theoretically be both inside and outside of time in different aspects. I can't think of another verse indicating Christ died before creation, but would be interested in it. Of course his status or label as a "Lamb" is not necessarily connected to him having already died, but it does seem bound up with the idea, and only as a man could he be slain. Were he a "Lamb" within his eternality it feels like it would put creation logically and morally prior to God's existence, since the picture of the Lamb has no relevance without a fallen creation.
I agree that He hasn't always existed as a man, but I do believe He will forever be a man(the God-man) for eternity, but that's another subject. :)

He literally became a man and that is not in question. My question is did He become the Lamb of God or has He always existed as the Lamb of God? Let me put it this way...did He become the incarnate Christ and then become the Lamb of God OR did was He already the Lamb of God and became man?

I am still trying to wrap my head around this, ”When the Word was chosen individually to be the Lamb of God.” Was He chosen to be the Lamb of God or chosen because He IS the Lamb of God? There are huge implications in regards to how you (or anyone) answers this. I vote for the latter and not the former. :)
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
I agree that He hasn't always existed as a man, but I do believe He will forever be a man(the God-man) for eternity, but that's another subject. :)

He literally became a man and that is not in question. My question is did He become the Lamb of God or has He always existed as the Lamb of God?

The Lamb of God is by definition something which can be sacrificed, something which can be killed. He had to be a man for this to be the case. This isn't difficult.

Let me put it this way...did He become the incarnate Christ and then become the Lamb of God OR did was He already the Lamb of God and became man?

I am still trying to wrap my head around this, ”When the Word was chosen individually to be the Lamb of God.” Was He chosen to be the Lamb of God or chosen because He IS the Lamb of God? There are huge implications in regards to how you (or anyone) answers this. I vote for the latter and not the former. :)

Baby Jesus was called the Christ which means "the Anointed One." But he had not been anointed yet.

He wasn't anointed until he arrived at the Jordan River with John the Baptist. Luke 4:18. Baby Jesus was called the Anointed One not because he had yet been anointed but because he was the designated Christ, the promised Messiah, the expected Anointed One.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
I think it's quite man-centered to put a redemptive term into the nature of God, as if God's whole nature is focused around creation.

God so loved the world, God doesn't exist for the world; the world exists for God.

If Christ chose to lay his life down, there was a logical moment before making the choice.

Just my take on it.
It's not man-centered, but thanks for the jab anyways. Someone said, ”When the Word was chosen individually to be the Lamb of God.” Now, those are NOT my words, but from a guy on another forum. I've never heard such a thing before and I find it a rather odd way of expressing himself.

So again...Was He chosen to be the Lamb of God or chosen because He IS the Lamb of God? There are huge implications in regards to how you (or anyone) answers this. I vote for the latter and not the former. :)
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Don't twist what I said into a personal insult, when I'm making a logical point.

It is absolutely logically man-centered to define God by his creation.
Are you going to answer this or deflect some more?

Was He chosen to be the Lamb of God or chosen because He IS the Lamb of God? There are huge implications in regards to how you (or anyone) answers this. I vote for the latter and not the former. :)
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Jesus Christ I believe was setup as the Lamb to be slain before the world began 1 Pet 1:19-20

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

This has to do with His Suretyship, Heb 7:22

22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

When was He made surety ? I believe before the foundation. Also in Gods purpose He was the lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
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guest1

Guest
Are you going to answer this or deflect some more?

Was He chosen to be the Lamb of God or chosen because He IS the Lamb of God? There are huge implications in regards to how you (or anyone) answers this. I vote for the latter and not the former. :)
Was the Son the Savior before creation ? :)
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
The "Lamb of God" is a reference to the sacrifice God provides for sins - God's Lamb. To be a sacrificial Lamb, you must be sacrificable - mortal. You cannot sacrifice an eternal immortal being because they cannot die or be killed. A sacrificial Lamb must be killed or it isn't a sacrificial Lamb. The sacrificial Lamb is by definition a mortal human that you can kill. Otherwise, the term "Lamb of God" isn't a meaningful term.

This Lamb was predestined to be slain from the foundation of the world.

That's all you need to know to answer your question.
Lol!!!! Talk about a smug heretic!

No, there is more to it, not to mention your most heretical stance. Jesus wasn't a mere mortal human, and yours isn't the Christ of Scripture. The Christ of Scripture is YHWH as John attests; John 12:41, and as Christ says as well; John 8:58-59 &c. Your Jesus couldn't save one soul.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Lol!!!!

No, there is more to it, not to mention your most heretical stance. Jesus wasn't a mere mortal human, and yours isn't the Christ of Scripture, the Christ of Scripture is YHWH as John attests, John 12:41, John 8:58-59 &c. Your Jesus couldn't save one soul.

Except that in your doctrine the divine Word is impassible - cannot be dead.

To be a sacrificial Lamb, you must be capable of being dead.

But it is clear that truth is not what you want. What you want is what you want.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Except that in your doctrine the divine Word is impassible - cannot be dead.
No, the exception is nothing in Scripture makes that claim. That and you've failed to and cannot refute John 12:41 which clearly teaches Christ as YHWH. He took on flesh, and died.

To be a sacrificial Lamb, you must be capable of being dead.
He did that and was raised, but that is impossible for your creature Jesus.
But it is clear that truth is not what you want. What you want is what you want.
I have the truth, His name is Jesus.
 
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