Last Words of Pope Benedict

dingoling. said:
Jesus prayed that we would all be one just as he and the Father was one.

So how are we to become one?
Click to expand...
Catholics can admitt hey have misunderstood Trent:

from faithful, knowledgeable, Church-loving, Catholic apoplecticist Jimmy Akin
"that Catholics can also accept the formula of justification sola fide (by faith alone), provided this phrase is properly understood.
Thus the position being condemned is the idea that we are justified by intellectual assent alone (as per James 2).
if the term faith is being used to refer to faith formed by charity then the Catholic accepts the idea of justification by faith alone."
 
balshan said:
So according to your logic we should just follow leaders no matter how evil they are, we are to follow them no matter if it means breaking the commandments. You need to remove your log and then you might see how you are misusing the words of Jesus and this to support following wolves and false teachers. Which no where does Jesus ever say to do. Deliberately misusing the posts of others and typical of what RCs do.
Click to expand...
No that is your logic and misuse of my post.
 
pilgrim said:
No she didn't.

Unity is "fine" as you say, as if we could do without it. However, Jesus prayed to the Father for unity among the believers. That makes it "essential".
Click to expand...
Yet no where in that prayer does He say be united with Satan which RCs have clearly stated they would do, if the pope was Satan they would do. No where does He say that means false teachers and wolves which your leaders clearly are. No where in that prayer does he name your institution. There are natural scriptural limits to who we are to be united with and it is not your institution.
 
pilgrim said:
The pillar and foundation of truth FOUGHT ERROR.
Click to expand...

And it gradually introduced error, as it acquired more power and prestige, "teaching for doctrine the precepts of men." And became more and more corrupt.
pilgrim said:
Who fought all the great heresies? The Catholic Church did.
Click to expand...
THE church did. The Catholic Church introduced many gross errors and teaches them as doctrines, thus, worshiping God in vain.
 
Last edited:
pilgrim said:
The pillar and foundation of truth FOUGHT ERROR.
Who fought all the great heresies? The Catholic Church did.
Click to expand...
Your institution is not the pillar and foundation of truth. For a start it teaches false doctrines. It lies and liars can never be trusted. As to morals it shows they are lacking as it does not expose sin and hides it and then justifies sin by saying all are sinners.
 
1Thess521 said:
would you accept as TRUTH any teaching you believe is in error?
Click to expand...
Why is the individual the determiner of truth? That's a problem isn't it? The student is not greater than the teacher. Did Jesus in His omnipotence see that as a problem or do you think that caught Him by surprise? How do you ensure that the Church that you just established and commissioned to TEACH and baptize all nations always teaches the truth?
 
pilgrim said:
Why is the individual the determiner of truth? That's a problem isn't it? The student is not greater than the teacher. Did Jesus in His omnipotence see that as a problem or do you think that caught Him by surprise? How do you ensure that the Church that you just established and commissioned to TEACH and baptize all nations always teaches the truth?
Click to expand...
Better than following false leaders and teachers, who do not know the truth and who ignore most of scripture. This is what your institution does.
 
pilgrim said:
So what do you call this? Do you know God's will better than He does?
John 17:21 " I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.
Click to expand...
Is the church one with God the father and God the Son, when the rcc worships and gives God's glory that belongs to Him to others and ascribes to them what only God can do?

No human can ever become divine. And neither can any human or angel forgive sins and give others salvation and eternal life.

Exodus 20:3-5
“You shall have no other gods before me. “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them;

Isaiah 42:8
“I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another

Isaiah 43:10-11
Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.
 
balshan said:
Yet no where in that prayer does He say be united with Satan which RCs have clearly stated they would do, if the pope was Satan they would do. No where does He say that means false teachers and wolves which your leaders clearly are. No where in that prayer does he name your institution. There are natural scriptural limits to who we are to be united with and it is not your institution.
Click to expand...

You haven't proven that the CC is teaching false doctrines.

Also obeying those who have authority is independent their behavior:

Matthew 23:1-3, "Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach."

Acts 23:5, "And Paul said, “I did not realize, brothers, that he was high priest; for it is written, ‘You shall not speak evil of a leader of your people.’”

I Peter 2:18, "Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh."
 
1Thess521 said:
the CC could repent of their errors : would be a start
Click to expand...

You haven't proven that we are in error.

1Thess521 said:
from faithful, knowledgeable, Church-loving, Catholic Author Peter Kreeft
quote
"How do I resolve the Reformation?
Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?
Very simple. No tricks.
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.
Whatever theological mistakes Luther made, whatever indispensable truths about the Church he denied, here is an indispensable truth he affirmed — indispensable to union between all sinners and God and union between God’s separated Catholic and Protestant children."
end quote

As a Catholic do you feel guilty for for the tragedy of Christian disunity?
Click to expand...

I am not going to respond to quotes like this without knowing the entire context from which it was taken.
 
dingoling. said:
I am not going to respond to quotes like this without knowing the entire context from which it was taken.
Click to expand...

Here is the context: should we expect a response?


quote
"How do I resolve the Reformation?
Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?
Very simple. No tricks.
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.
Whatever theological mistakes Luther made, whatever indispensable truths about the Church he denied, here is an indispensable truth he affirmed — indispensable to union between all sinners and God and union between God’s separated Catholic and Protestant children."
end quote
 
1Thess521 said:
Here is the context: should we expect a response?


quote
"How do I resolve the Reformation?
Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?
Very simple. No tricks.
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.
Whatever theological mistakes Luther made, whatever indispensable truths about the Church he denied, here is an indispensable truth he affirmed — indispensable to union between all sinners and God and union between God’s separated Catholic and Protestant children."
end quote
Click to expand...
From your same link Kreeft explains further his own understanding of word usage:

But there are two important verbal misunderstandings in the Reformation controversy over faith and works. First, when the Council of Trent affirmed, contrary to Luther, that good works contribute to salvation, it meant by salvation not just getting to heaven but the whole process of being transformed and becoming incorporated into the life of God. In other words, salvation meant not just justification but sanctification as well; and it was quite correct to say that both faith and works contribute to sanctification, thus to salvation.

Second, Catholic and Protestant theologians mean different things by the word faith. Protestants usually follow biblical usage: faith means saving faith, the heart or will accepting Christ. Catholics usually follow a more technical philosophical and theological usage: faith means the act of the mind, prompted by the will, which accepts Christ's teachings as true. In Protestant language, faith means heart faith, or whole-person faith; in Catholic language, faith means mind faith. Thus, Catholic theologians are right to deny justification by faith alone in that sense (which of course was not Luther's sense). For "the devils also believe, and tremble." in this narrower sense faith can exist without the works of love; as James writes, "Faith without works is dead." In the larger sense, faith cannot exist without works, for it includes works as a plant includes its own blossoms.
 
dingoling. said:
You haven't proven that the CC is teaching false doctrines.

Also obeying those who have authority is independent their behavior:

Matthew 23:1-3, "Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; therefore, do whatever they teach you and follow it; but do not do as they do, for they do not practice what they teach."

Acts 23:5, "And Paul said, “I did not realize, brothers, that he was high priest; for it is written, ‘You shall not speak evil of a leader of your people.’”

I Peter 2:18, "Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh."
Click to expand...
Oh yes we have. We have also shown that RCs only follow the actual words when it suits their false beliefs otherwise they follow the false teachings found in the catechism or the POJ. Yes but my master is Jesus and not the false teachers and wolves of the RCC. Yes Jesus is the High priest. No where does Jesus say to believe false teachers which your leaders are. NOWHERE.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

We tested the spirit behind the RCC and it is evil, so not we are not to believe the RCC and its false teachers.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top