Law of sin

Him

Member
Romans 8:2; For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

What is the Law of sin that we have been set free from?

It is the fact that in me (us) is no good thing. For the Will to do good is present with me. But how to do it I find not. For the evil which I would not that do I. But it is not I that do it, but the sin that dwells in me.
So I find a law, that when I would do good evil is present with me. BUT in respect to the LAW of God I delight. But I see this other Law in my members prior to Christ warring against the LAW of God that is in mind bringing me into captivity to this law of sin which is in my members which brings forth death.
I thank God though through Jesus Christ whom shall deliver me from this body of death. I do indeed serve the Law of God with mind, But sadly with the flesh the law of sin. But now there is no more condemnation to us whom are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin, the evil that is present with me (us) that when I would do good I can not, but the evil that I would not that I do. FOR God sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, condemn the entity sin in His flesh, that the righteousness of the law fulfilled by us, who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. For we are led by the spirit of God and walk thereby mortifying the deeds of the body. For we have not the spirit of bondage, but the spirit of adoption thereby we cry Father. For as many that are led by the spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
It's the sin nature inside us that the Law empowers.

We have this because we spiritually died in Adam.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Romans 8:2; For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

What is the Law of sin that we have been set free from?

It is the fact that in me (us) is no good thing. For the Will to do good is present with me. But how to do it I find not. For the evil which I would not that do I. But it is not I that do it, but the sin that dwells in me.
So I find a law, that when I would do good evil is present with me. BUT in respect to the LAW of God I delight. But I see this other Law in my members prior to Christ warring against the LAW of God that is in mind bringing me into captivity to this law of sin which is in my members which brings forth death.
I thank God though through Jesus Christ whom shall deliver me from this body of death. I do indeed serve the Law of God with mind, But sadly with the flesh the law of sin. But now there is no more condemnation to us whom are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin, the evil that is present with me (us) that when I would do good I can not, but the evil that I would not that I do. FOR God sending His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, condemn the entity sin in His flesh, that the righteousness of the law fulfilled by us, who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. For we are led by the spirit of God and walk thereby mortifying the deeds of the body. For we have not the spirit of bondage, but the spirit of adoption thereby we cry Father. For as many that are led by the spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Romans 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Romans 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
That is exactly why I follow Jesus instead of Paul. Paul tried to adopt himself by law into Gods kingdom instead o being born of God, for had he been born of God, born again he not have been trying to adopt himself by the laws he established for adoption that Jesus never ever taught but to be a son of God yourself, born of His Spirit just as Jesus was in Matt 3:16.

Paul was a save to sin, said he had a thorn in his flesh that was his desire to be exalted for his abundance of revelations, which actually were laws he made from his own understandings. And he taught the you are just a sinner not worth of the kingdom fo God when Jesus teaches righteousness and to be without sin and perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Most follow Paul as a sinner than ever Jesus and be without sin. For God takes away the sins of this world and in Him is no sin. 1 John 3. And we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin cannot sin because we are born of God, not adopted. 1 John 3:9. A sinner is of 1 John 3:8 instead.

It is that Jesus just has the better way for me by identification with the same he had from our father who is God. The One Jesus obeyed and prayed to.
 

Him

Member
That is exactly why I follow Jesus instead of Paul. Paul tried to adopt himself by law into Gods kingdom instead o being born of God, for had he been born of God, born again he not have been trying to adopt himself by the laws he established for adoption that Jesus never ever taught but to be a son of God yourself, born of His Spirit just as Jesus was in Matt 3:16.

Paul was a save to sin, said he had a thorn in his flesh that was his desire to be exalted for his abundance of revelations, which actually were laws he made from his own understandings. And he taught the you are just a sinner not worth of the kingdom fo God when Jesus teaches righteousness and to be without sin and perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Most follow Paul as a sinner than ever Jesus and be without sin. For God takes away the sins of this world and in Him is no sin. 1 John 3. And we who are born of God it is impossible to be in sin cannot sin because we are born of God, not adopted. 1 John 3:9. A sinner is of 1 John 3:8 instead.

It is that Jesus just has the better way for me by identification with the same he had from our father who is God. The One Jesus obeyed and prayed to.
The more you post the more you show you don’t know
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
The more you post the more you show you don’t know
Actually the deeper I get in the ways of God and the ways of Jesus in the father that we follow him and be like Him as He commands of you as well, obviously the less you understand.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
It's the sin nature inside us that the Law empowers.

We have this because we spiritually died in Adam.

No ......

It is outside us.

If not ..... then we are not.

IMO, more of a tracking thingy ....
 
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Gary Mac

Well-known member
It's the sin nature inside us that the Law empowers.

We have this because we spiritually died in Adam.
Actually Adam became alive spiritual and became like God who is a Spirit to know this difference. gen 3:22, so do we all who receives the same from God. Jesus received the same enlightenment as Adam did in Matt 3:16.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Actually Adam became alive spiritual and became like God who is a Spirit to know this difference. gen 3:22, so do we all who receives the same from God. Jesus received the same enlightenment as Adam did in Matt 3:16.

Sure about that Gary?

Might be the opposite.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Sure about that Gary?
Unless Gen 3:22 is a lie.
Might be the opposite.
You cant become like God and not be like Him, that is impossible. He demands you be like Him if you are to be of Him.

First man Adam was of flesh, the second man Adam was of Spirit. God is a Spirit not a man.

The first man Jesus was of flesh, made of a woman born under the law just as you and I. The second man Jesus in Matt 3:16, was of Spirit, just as the first man Adam and the second man Adam was, and all today are who has received from God that what these received from God. Jesus referred to this new man as born again.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Do you think people are born with out a sense of right and wrong?

Seems fairly innate.

and you are rushing back 6000 years ago to say what exactly?

The following 6000 years meant nothing?

Common sense bro ......

The bible does not displace it.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Do you think people are born with out a sense of right and wrong?
Absolutely, they learn from the laws for do's and dont who discipline them. Sadly we have very little of that in todays society. Some teach their children how to be criminals. Some teach them how to be good, none the less we learn by laws of do's and donts.

Im retired now but I did volunteer prison work for over 25 years and trust me in this, most didnt have parents to teach them what is good and what is bad.

This is what is so interesting in Christendom. The laws established by all these different so called churches, denominations, dictate to how one believes. if they are not born of God, born again, then the teachings are not from God but from religious minds from opinions. None the less people have a choice in whom they learn from. I just happen to have chosen the teachings of Jesus that I may be like he was in the Father, but when I was young I had good parents who did spare the rod to correct my mind. And I can tell you now my mom and dad wasn't to worried about messing ups my psychological mind for correction.

Look at Jesus. He didnt know what was right until God came to him and opened up all of who He is and His heaven that was in error by the laws of the jewish temples Jesus taught in. He wasn't born with that knowledge either. God had to open it to him just as He has to do the same in us all who will obey His commands to be perfect as He is perfect. If one doesnt obey there is no way to know God at all without Him to open Himself in you just as He did in Jesus.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
As many otherr posters have pointed out to you.

The spirit of the anti-christ is the one that denies Jesus coming in the flesh.

He said he was from above.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
As many otherr posters have pointed out to you.

The spirit of the anti-christ is the one that denies Jesus coming in the flesh.

He said he was from above.
Oh for sure. Anyone who denies that Jesus was a man and has made that man a god instead of the one true God who came to Jesus and opened up all of His heaven to that man of flesh -- is antichrist for they do not believe God can come to them and open the same to them.

The kicker is --when one see Him as He really is as Jesus did in Matt 3:16, ye shall be like Him as well, no different from what Jesus received from Him at all.1 John 3.

See 1 John 3. When you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. very few has seen him, but Jesus was one of us. So evident in Matt 3:16. He didnt know God either until God came to him and he saw Him as He really is. You can read it. And look at the before that event and after that event in the life of Jesus and everyone else who receieved the same from God, the before and afters.

You haven't seen Him as He is to be like Him have you?

And as you say many other posters has pointed out that they are not like Him as God commands of you if you are to be of Him. At lest they acknowledge they are not of Christ to walk as He walks in His same light with the same signs following, but a sinner instead. They learned that doctrine from Paul, not Jesus.
 

HealTheLand

Active member
Look at Jesus. He didnt know what was right until God ....

God draws near to the righteous and far from the wicked -- is one thing (of many) that the Bible tells us.

If Yeshua did not know anything of/from the Spirit -- before His baptism, then God would not have come then, or spoke... but instead would have been far(there) away then a voice from Heaven....which is close.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
God draws near to the righteous and far from the wicked -- is one thing (of many) that the Bible tells us.

If Yeshua did not know anything of/from the Spirit -- before His baptism, then God would not have come then, or spoke... but instead would have been far(there) away then a voice from Heaven....which is close.
Is it not clear to you that God came to Jesus by His Spirit and opened up who He is and all of His heaven to Jesus by His Spirit? Most cant relate to actually transponder between God and Jesus because they never have encountered God themselves, only dictate to their gods with beliefs from and through opinions instead.

Jesus was like most religious folk who teach the laws of that establishment in the temples even from a young age. Ironic is when Jesus did see God in Matt 3:16 when about 30 years old, and changed his teachings as all do who God comes to and manifests Himself in, the very ones he was once was reverend for his knowledge of their laws, are the very ones who had him crucified for blaspheme.

It is the same today. When one comes in the presence of these denominations teachings what Jesus taught from God himself, even quote him, be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, walk as He walks in His same light, same signs following, righteous, holy, pure and without sin as Jesus taught, then we to are deemed as blasphemer no different from the way they treated Jesus as a blasphemer for the very same reason.
 

HealTheLand

Active member
It is the same today. When one comes in the presence of these denominations teachings what Jesus taught from God himself, even quote him, be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect, walk as He walks in His same light, same signs following, righteous, holy, pure and without sin as Jesus taught, then we to are deemed as blasphemer no different from the way they treated Jesus as a blasphemer for the very same reason.

it is probably good not to call anyone a blasphemer or other negative too much or too often. many are probably misled... Jesus was against the ways of the Teachers and in Charge of all Thought (not a great position to be in if you don't know, just believe what has been handed down to you and/or your Religion).

and as we do unto others we might see others return to us sometimes. the more we do what we hate or dislike to others -- the more it might show up in our lives -- receiving what we have sown in ways. though God is merciful.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
it is probably good not to call anyone a blasphemer or other negative too much or too often.
Ive never used that term. Have no reason to.
many are probably misled... Jesus was against the ways of the Teachers and in Charge of all Thought (not a great position to be in if you don't know, just believe what has been handed down to you and/or your Religion).
That is exactly the problem, people believe what they want to believe instead of letting the author of it be manifest in them as He was manifest in Jesus in Matt 3:16, Jesus never would have known Him either least He came to Jesus and reveals who He is and His heaven. We are not exempt from the same not one inkling.
and as we do unto others we might see others return to us sometimes.
As Jesus did unto others and look how they treated him for that blaspheme.
the more we do what we hate or dislike to others
If one has Gods Spirit, mind, which is Love, these of a creed will hate you just as they hated Jesus for the very same reason.
-- the more it might show up in our lives
Gods anointing shows up in us all who has received form Him that what Jesus received from Him in Matt 3:16. We walk as He walks in His same light no different from Jesus did.
-- receiving what we have sown in ways. though God is merciful.
Same seed Jesus planted, and the same rejection of that seed from religious minds, denominations, who see Jesus way to be ye therefore perfect even as tour Father in heaven is perfect. These has stated to me it is blaspheme and impossible and will tell you they are sinners instead of the righteousness of God in Gods anointing, which is Christ in you. These follow Pauls teachings as a sinner instead of Jesus teachings for righteousness and without sin.

We who Arte born of God it is impossible to be in sin because we are born of God. 1 John 3:9. For He comes and takes away the sins of this world and in Him there is no sin, it is those who are without Him who are the sinners.

And these constantly try and separate me from the Father to follow them in their ways for sin instead. Paul was master for this and look how many follow Paul as a sinner instead of Jesus in perfections of the Father to be like Him instead of like Paul. Jesus didnt follow Paul at all. He needed no man teach him, that teachings comes from God Himself, nor do I need any man teach me.

Jesus said that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Father for yourself and He will give it you.
 

Josheb

Well-known member
Romans 8:2; For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

What is the Law of sin that we have been set free from?

It is the fact that in me (us) is no good thing..................
No.


The "law of sin" is a law.
The law of sin is a law that pertains to sin.

Understanding the "law of sin" is that simple and nothing ignoring those two facts is ever going to correctly know and understand the law of sin.

There has never been time in human existence when laws have not existed. At the very beginning of creation God gave Adam (and Eve) to commands, to laws. The first came in the form of the blessing to be, "be fruitful, multiply, subdue the earth and rule over it." God gave Adam and Eve authority over all the plants and animals in the garden, thereby enabling and empowering them to fulfill that blessing/command. Had they obeyed that command they never would have listened to the serpent lie about God, creation, and themselves. The first rule Adam broke was not to rule over the serpent. Had he obeyed that command he never would have broken the second command.

The second command was a prohibition against eating the fruit born by the tree in the middle of the garden. Adam (and Eve) was told they would die in the day he ate that forbidden fruit. If you eat..... then you die. Thousands of years later God sees fit to have the apostle Paul explain some of what happened that fateful day when Adam disobeyed God's command and died. In Romans 3 he explains how the wages of sin is death. In Romans 5 he explains it was the act of disobedience (not anything in the make up of fruit itself) that caused death to entire the world. Paul also explains how the death of disobedience is not physical death. A person can be physically alive, pumping blood and breathing air but still be dead in sin. Many Christians call this "spiritual death" but that's not a term the Bible ever uses. The Bible simply says we are dead in sin, or dead in transgression.

So, you are correct when saying, "the fact that in me (us) is no good thing," but that is not the LAW of sin. That is simply the effect or consequence of our having violated the law, the law of sin.

The phrase "law of sin" is used only three times in the Bible and all three occasions occur at the hand of Paul and only in chapters 7 and 8 of Romans. The op quotes the text so I won't repeat it. Paul's first to uses have only the first three words but after having described the law of sin he calls it the law of sin and death. It is a single law, not two. The latter five-word law is the exact same law he's previously referenced using three words. Violating the law of sin necessarily and inescapably brings death because the wages of sin is death. The law can be understood simply as.....


If you sin, then you die.


That is the law of sin and death.


Two more points deserve to be made. The first is there was and is an alternative: humans have always been mortal but and the fruit from the tree of life solved that problem while the fruit from the knowledge of good and evil made it worse. The second is sin is defined in several ways in the Bible and it is not just 1 John 3:4. Without also understanding these two matters the law of sin (and death) cannot fully be understood.

Based on past experience in DBs, I know some will try to argue with me against inherent mortality. This will happen mostly because of its association with cults' views, but the simple fact is immortal creatures cannot die and the moment God told Adam he would die when he ate means he was not immortal; he was subject to death. Immortal humans do not need to eat from a tree of life in order to live; they are immortal! In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul speaks about the natural human body and says, "It is sown a perishable body; it is raised an imperishable body," and he is not talking about the sinful state because that would read, "It is sown a perished body; it is raised an imperishable body." We're already dead by the time we're buried. We're dead in sin and dead physically. The difference comes dependent upon whether we are also dead in Christ or not.

If a person eats from one tree he dies. If he eats from another tree he lives. If a person sins he dies. If a person obeys he still dies unless he's eaten from the other tree.

As to the definition of sin we have other examples of scripture defining sin, such as 1 John 5:17's "all unrighteousness is sin." Some believe righteousness is measured solely by the law, either the Law of Moses or the Law of the Spirit (or both) but that's not what John says and nowhere else does scripture ever say such a thing. John has provided two different definitions or measures of sin: lawlessness and unrighteousness. Some folks make the mistake of inserting the word "only" in 1 John 3:4 to make it read, "...only lawlessness is sin," but that is observably not what is stated. Paul also provides another definition. When writing about dietary liberties and restrictions and the use of special days in Romans 14 he concludes, "....whatever is not from faith is sin." Paul's statement is important because faith is not the same thing as faithfulness. Faithfulness is works, faith is not works. Faith is demonstrated by faithfulness, or as James put it (and I paraphrase), "You say you have faith, then show me your works because faith without works (faithfulness) is dead."

More importantly, it is this aspect of righteousness that deserves attention because we were sown onto the planet corruptible. We were not already-corrupt. We were uncorrupted but corruptible and as a consequence of acting we became corrupted.

Not-corrupt
Corruptible
Corrupted
In
corruptible.

Those are four completely different existential states, or states of being. We were sown onto the planet with the first two conditions. The first was lost when the third was manifested by the act of disobedience. What is important to understand here is that God made humanity corruptible but He Himself is not in any way corruptible. He is righteous. Perfect in all His ways, perfect in all His being. In Him there is no imperfection.

He cannot be tempted.

He is not corruptible.

One day He will raise the dead in Christ to be incorruptible and immortal. The law of sin, the law of sin and death will no longer exist for us. Death will be destroyed in all its forms.

And that was the plan from the beginning. All of it. We know this because of something scripture tells us about any of the above occurred.

1 Peter 1:20-21
For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

The perfect sacrifice was FORENOWN before the world was created. Jesus was FOREKNOWN specifically as the perfect sacrifice before a single atom was ever spoken into existence. There was no way he was not coming, no way he was not coming as a sacrifice, no way he wasn't going to come to die, no way he wasn't going to come to live again after dying, and no way he wasn't going to be our means of God completing the purpose He set forth at Genesis 1:1 = the incorruptible and immortal raising of a mortal people He had first sown uncorrupted but corruptible who by their own hand became corrupted and dead in sin.

The law of sin existed prior to Romans 7 and 8. The law of sin goes all the way back to Eden. It existed before it was applied. So too did the law of life.

Romans 8:1-2
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

Galatians 6:7-8
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.



It has been that way from the beginning
.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Oh for sure. Anyone who denies that Jesus was a man and has made that man a god instead of the one true God who came to Jesus and opened up all of His heaven to that man of flesh -- is antichrist for they do not believe God can come to them and open the same to them.

The kicker is --when one see Him as He really is as Jesus did in Matt 3:16, ye shall be like Him as well, no different from what Jesus received from Him at all.1 John 3.

See 1 John 3. When you see Him as He is ye shall be like Him. very few has seen him, but Jesus was one of us. So evident in Matt 3:16. He didnt know God either until God came to him and he saw Him as He really is. You can read it. And look at the before that event and after that event in the life of Jesus and everyone else who receieved the same from God, the before and afters.

You haven't seen Him as He is to be like Him have you?

And as you say many other posters has pointed out that they are not like Him as God commands of you if you are to be of Him. At lest they acknowledge they are not of Christ to walk as He walks in His same light with the same signs following, but a sinner instead. They learned that doctrine from Paul, not Jesus.

No offense .......

Don't want to be Jesus.

Do you think Jesus is ok with that?
 
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