Lazarus ....!

I said you you misued Jn 12, didn't I?


I say Lazarus already belonged to Christ.


What makes sure of that?


You misused Jn 12.


You misused Jn 12.
So do you believe all those who Christ draws will come without exception ?

Can one come without being drawn ?
 
So do you believe all those who Christ draws will come without exception ?

Can one come without being drawn ?
The God of the Scriptures is a Sovereign discriminating God, who is likened unto a ‘potter’ who has power over the clay to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor! A Sovereign who is answerable to none but Himself! A God who doeth according to HIS WILL in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand, or say unto Him, What doest thou? Dan 4:35

A Sovereign who hath mercy on whom He will and hardens whom He will! Rom 9:18 A Sovereign who knows the end from the beginning, and calleth those things that are not as though they were and makes His people willing in the day of His power! A Sovereign who hath created ALL THINGS for Himself, yea even the wicked for the day of evil, and causes the wrath of man to praise Him! Prov 16:4; Psalm 76:10

Golden Chain of Salvation
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified Romans 8:29, 30
 
The God of the Scriptures is a Sovereign discriminating God, who is likened unto a ‘potter’ who has power over the clay to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor! A Sovereign who is answerable to none but Himself! A God who doeth according to HIS WILL in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay His hand, or say unto Him, What doest thou? Dan 4:35

A Sovereign who hath mercy on whom He will and hardens whom He will! Rom 9:18 A Sovereign who knows the end from the beginning, and calleth those things that are not as though they were and makes His people willing in the day of His power! A Sovereign who hath created ALL THINGS for Himself, yea even the wicked for the day of evil, and causes the wrath of man to praise Him! Prov 16:4; Psalm 76:10

Golden Chain of Salvation
For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified Romans 8:29, 30
Yes I know that position all to well my friend. Thanks for sharing your views. There is another view where Paul quoted Romans 9 from in the OT and it has to do with nations, not individuals. :)

hope this helps !!!
 
Yes I know that position all to well my friend. Thanks for sharing your views. There is another view where Paul quoted Romans 9 from in the OT and it has to do with nations, not individuals. :)

hope this helps !!!
But Paul says in Romans that those whom God calls, he justifies. Now, we grant that the Bible does not explicitly say that all those he calls he justifies. We are supplying the word all. Perhaps we are as guilty of reading something into the text that is not there as those who advocate the foreknowledge view.

When we supply the word all here, we are responding to an implication of the text. We are making an inference. Is it a legitimate inference to make? I think it is.
 
But Paul says in Romans that those whom God calls, he justifies. Now, we grant that the Bible does not explicitly say that all those he calls he justifies. We are supplying the word all. Perhaps we are as guilty of reading something into the text that is not there as those who advocate the foreknowledge view.

When we supply the word all here, we are responding to an implication of the text. We are making an inference. Is it a legitimate inference to make? I think it is.
Thats Romans 8. We were discussing Romans 9 where Paul shifts to Israel in 9:4.
 
Yes I know that position all to well my friend. Thanks for sharing your views. There is another view where Paul quoted Romans 9 from in the OT and it has to do with nations, not individuals. :)

hope this helps !!!
9/7 For they are not all Israel who are of Israel.
Referring to select individuals within the Jewish nation.

9/24 even us who He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Referring to select individuals in Gentile nations also.

9/27 Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, the remnant will be saved.
The nation of Israel has a remnant (individuals) who will be saved.

For this reason the corporate view doesn't work through Romans 9
 
One believes because they were chosen before the foundation of the world.
What scripture teaches that ?
All of it. Just what do you think predestined means?
There you go again conflating election and predestination.

Let's go along with your way of thinking and conflate the Election of Jesus, who is referred to as "My Elect" in Isa 42:1, with Predestination. Why would Jesus need to be predestined when He is already the Son of God?? See how your conflating crashes and burns.
 
Do you understand the other side of this where its difficult to understand how a person who doesn't exist can be in Him ?

The truths of God are often difficult to understand.
What exactly is your point?
Ignorance is not a valid argument.
 
There you go again conflating election and predestination.

Not at all.
Let's go along with your way of thinking and conflate the Election of Jesus, who is referred to as "My Elect" in Isa 42:1, with Predestination. Why would Jesus need to be predestined when He is already the Son of God?? See how your conflating crashes and burns.

No one even implied Jesus need to be predestined. Why are you applying our election to THE ELECT Jesus, who IS God.
I'll assume because you have no refutation, you have to make up arguments no one has made. Seems to be a pattern.
 
I understand that position but between the arminians and calvinists that is debatable.

No, it's really not.
Calvinists have Scripture.
Arminians have nothing but rationalization and assumption.

How else can you explain the constant straw-man, "God believes for you"?

Both groups would be in agreement that Gods grace proceeds belief- without God acting first no one would believe.

God's grace GIVES us faith (Eph. 2:8, Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 2 Pet. 1:1, 1 Cor. 4:7).
 
No, it's really not.
Calvinists have Scripture.
Arminians have nothing but rationalization and assumption.

How else can you explain the constant straw-man, "God believes for you"?



God's grace GIVES us faith (Eph. 2:8, Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 2 Pet. 1:1, 1 Cor. 4:7).
Thanks I know those scriptures which all have a "context" to them.

I have already proved the first 2 quotes wrong today from their context. I'm not going to repeat my answers. If you are curious you can look them up.

hope this helps !!!
 
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