Lazarus ....!

So remembering that while I was a calvinist I didn't follow calvin , no more than an arminian would follow arminius, so that is unfair.

There is hope for you yet.

And this is extended to @Theo1689 @Howie . I hope we can move forward from our past differences and have some fruitful discussions. :)

I already did that, long ago.
If you recall, I offered you the olive branch of truce twice, and both times you simply threw it back in my face. Hopefully you are sincere this time.
 
Kind of like conflating the act of "being hungry" with necessarily eating. Although different, they have a certain "irresistable" relationship to each other that's undeniable.
unfortunately I eat these days when I'm not hungry. I've gained 30 lbs this year. :(
 
There is hope for you yet.



I already did that, long ago.
If you recall, I offered you the olive branch of truce twice, and both times you simply threw it back in my face. Hopefully you are sincere this time.
As they say time will tell and the proof is in the puddin. But at this time its my desire to be a better person and not be divisive and to discuss scripture and not the person. :)
 
Faith does not precede regeneration. I destroyed your position on that already (cf Rom 8:6-8; Eph Eph2:1-5.
Those verses are perfectly in line with Eph 2:8 that declares we are saved through faith, proving faith precedes eternal life.

(Eph 2:8) "For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,"
As I test the Spirits, it is clear we are not led by the same Spirit. I'm led by the Spirit of Christ, you're led by the spirit of anti Christ in your rejection of Rom 8:6-8 and Eph 2:1-5.
What spirit is that which is ok and may even prefer to regenerate you without you believing "in Christ" and being positioned "in Christ"?
I again urge you to repent of your belief and submit to Jesus.
I will never submit to the Calvinist non-Biblical version of Jesus.
 
Those verses are perfectly in line with Eph 2:8 that declares we are saved through faith, proving faith precedes eternal life.

(Eph 2:8) "For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God,"
Acontextual miduse of God's word.

What spirit is that which is ok and may even prefer to regenerate you without you believing "in Christ" and being positioned "in Christ"?
Straw man fallacy.

I will never submit to the Calvinist non-Biblical version of Jesus.
Straw man fallacy.
 
Wrong.
You EXPLICITLY said you weren't going to address the Scriptures I brought up (Eph. 2:8, Phil. 1:29, Rom. 12:3, 2 Pet. 1:1, 1 Cor. 4:7, etc.),
iscuss Scripture.
Please quote me saying I wasn’t going to address them ?

I said I already addressed the first two passages this morning and your third one is under the gifts of the spirit given to believers , not unbelievers. I don’t need to prove all of them wrong . I have the first three passage you referenced but didn’t quote .
 
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Please quote me saying I wasn’t going to address them ?

So you refuse to quote where RevRV allegedly said being an instrument of wrath justifies a person, but you want ME to quote where you said something?
Double standards much?

You correctly learned that accusing others of "following Calvin" when they don't is not productive discussion. But you still haven't learned that projecting false beliefs we don't hold or teach onto a person ALSO doesn't lead to productive discussion.

Thanks I know those scriptures which all have a "context" to them.

I have already proved the first 2 quotes wrong today from their context. I'm not going to repeat my answers. If you are curious you can look them up.

Now, where's RevRV's quote?
 
So you refuse to quote where RevRV allegedly said being an instrument of wrath justifies a person, but you want ME to quote where you said something?
Double standards much?

You correctly learned that accusing others of "following Calvin" when they don't is not productive discussion. But you still haven't learned that projecting false beliefs we don't hold or teach onto a person ALSO doesn't lead to productive discussion.



Now, where's RevRV's quote?
I never said what you claimed I said did I ?

I said I wasn’t going to repeat myself which is not the same as “ I wasn’t going to address them since I did earlier today .

You misrepresented me.
 
Please quote me saying I wasn’t going to address them ?

I said I already addressed the first two passages this morning and your third one is under the gifts of the spirit given to believers , not unbelievers. I don’t need to prove all of them wrong . I have the first three passage you referenced but didn’t quote .

You didn't "prove" anything. You gave your opinion/excuses for not believing them.

And you admitted ONCE AGAIN that you aren't interested in discussing Scripture, "I don't need to prove all of them wrong". You keep putting your foot in your mouth.
 
I never said what you claimed I said did I ?

I said I wasn’t going to repeat myself which is not the same as “ I wasn’t going to address them since I did earlier today .

You misrepresented me.

Since you dindn't "prove" anything, I didn't misrepresent you at all. I didn't present your narrative in your ideal way, because your narrative is false.

edit per mod
 
Since you dindn't "prove" anything, I didn't misrepresent you at all. I didn't present your narrative in your ideal way, because your narrative is false.

edit per mod
And quoting scripture references proves nothing on your part . No exegesis just like me saying Gen 1:1 proves I’m right and you are wrong without exegeting and explaining why .
 
Based on your inability to answer, it's obvious you don't understand the foreknowledge of God.


I would expect a professing Christian discussing foreknowledge of God to be able to address questions regarding the foreknowledge of God. You can't....and we all know why.
You deflected and ignored the context of the two verses with meaningless questions that doesn’t change the context of the verses. What foreknowledge of God asked is only to deflect from what the verses actually say.
 
No, I didn’t. I have no problem with the verses, but with the meaning and understanding of foreknowledge.

Only to someone that can’t answer that question.
For your beliefs to “work” you have to change the meaning of foreknowledge, all, world, whosoever , and many many more. Calvinism has to change the context and meaning of these verses and many more 1John2:2/Hebrews 11:6/Revelation 22:17/John 3:16 and many many more scriptures.
 
Thats Romans 8. We were discussing Romans 9 where Paul shifts to Israel in 9:4.
Ok 9 works for me.

It shows Paul’s sorrow over Israel’s unbelief is intense not only because they’re his kinsmen, but because they have fallen from such high privilege. They were adopted out of Egypt as God’s chosen children. They received special revelation of the glory of God at Mount Sinai and in the Tabernacle. They were brought into a covenant with God and given a law to govern them. They were given a way to worship God. They were promised extraordinary things by God to carry them until Christ came. (Romans 9:4-5)

Despite the all privileges they were given by God, they Looked down their noses at his offer and his Messiah.

“But it is not as though the word of God has failed” (Romans 9:6). All of our hope in Romans 8 hangs on Romans 9:6 being true.
 
Ok 9 works for me.

It shows Paul’s sorrow over Israel’s unbelief is intense not only because they’re his kinsmen, but because they have fallen from such high privilege. They were adopted out of Egypt as God’s chosen children. They received special revelation of the glory of God at Mount Sinai and in the Tabernacle. They were brought into a covenant with God and given a law to govern them. They were given a way to worship God. They were promised extraordinary things by God to carry them until Christ came. (Romans 9:4-5)

Despite the all privileges they were given by God, they Looked down their noses at his offer and his Messiah.

“But it is not as though the word of God has failed” (Romans 9:6). All of our hope in Romans 8 hangs on Romans 9:6 being true.
Yes as Gods chosen people . So being chosen does not equate to salvation . :)
 
Yes as Gods chosen people . So being chosen does not equate to salvation . :)
The absolute sovereignty of God is what Romans 9 is all about. And if you want to dealt head-on with the doctrines of unconditional election and irresistible grace. Romans 9 is the watershed text and the one that changed my life forever. Romans 9:11–12 said, Though they [Jacob and Esau] were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad — in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call — The older will serve the younger. And when Paul raised the question in verse 14, “Is there injustice on God’s part?” He says, no, and quotes Moses: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

And when he raises the question in verse 19, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” He answers in verse 21, “Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use?”

I understand emotions run high when you feel your man-centered world crumbling around you. Just Remember Romans 9 is like a tiger going about devouring free-willers
 
The absolute sovereignty of God is what Romans 9 is all about. And if you want to dealt head-on with the doctrines of unconditional election and irresistible grace. Romans 9 is the watershed text and the one that changed my life forever. Romans 9:11–12 said, Though they [Jacob and Esau] were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad — in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call — The older will serve the younger. And when Paul raised the question in verse 14, “Is there injustice on God’s part?” He says, no, and quotes Moses: “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”

And when he raises the question in verse 19, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” He answers in verse 21, “Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use?”

I understand emotions run high when you feel your man-centered world crumbling around you. Just Remember Romans 9 is like a tiger going about devouring free-willers
Paul is quoting Jer 18 and the context is Israel as a nation . :) Potter/ clay have to do with nations not individuals.
 
Paul is quoting Jer 18 and the context is Israel as a nation . :) Potter/ clay have to do with nations not individuals.
Correct and the nation of Israel consist of twelve tribes of individuals banded together into one nation. Just like the body of Christ consist of individuals banded together in one body, The body of Christ. What makes that possible? Do you think it's God alone that brings the change of heart to the sinner, or does the change of heart rest on the willingness of the individual sinner to be changed?
 
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