The human action is to believe "in Him".
Those 'in Him' from the foundation of the world are those that believe.
How can one be chosen "in Him" if one is not "in Him"?
we are from the foundation of the world.
The human action is to believe "in Him".
How can one be chosen "in Him" if one is not "in Him"?
I Square it by being a Sola Scripturist. I use All Scripture to come to the knowledge of the Truth. We are Elect not by Works unless we boast. Yes, we are Saved because we Believe; but we aren't Elect according to our Will...How can you square off what I highlighted above with the fact that God "chose us in Him" in Eph 1:4? If I read you correctly you are essentially saying that God chose us without Him which contradicts Eph 1:4.
Ordo Salutis categories are not always mutually exclusive. For example, there is a strong correlation and interplay between Repentance and Sanctification. If Eph 1:4 ties in Election with being positioned "in Christ" then that's what I go with.
are we Elect against our will?I Square it by being a Sola Scripturist. I use All Scripture to come to the knowledge of the Truth. We are Elect not by Works unless we boast. Yes, we are Saved because we Believe; but we aren't Elect according to our Will...
No...are we Elect against our will?
Human action is clearly indicated and demanded in Eph 1:4 when we are told to "be holy and without blame before Him in Love":It does not say "believe" in Ephesians 1:4. You simply presume.
No, I'm saying exactly what the verse says. "chosen in Him from the foundation of the world"
So again, IN THE TEXT, can you point to any human action in 1:4??
YesDid He force Lazarus to come to life?
They cannotHuman action is clearly indicated and demanded in Eph 1:4 when we are told to "be holy and without blame before Him in Love":
(Eph 1:4) according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
How can one satisfy that requirement without being a Christian who believes "in Christ"?
Were you always chosen "in Him" from before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) until now?
The Ephesians were told that they "were without Christ" and they are "now in Christ Jesus". If they were always chosen "in Him" from before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) then at what point were they found to be "without Christ"? Didn't you previously tell me that "we are kept by the power of God. How much more sure can you get?"?Isn't that what Scripture teaches? Your argument is with the words of Scripture.
4 just as He chose us IN HIM before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.
One is without Christ until they become saved . One is not saved prior to faith in Christ.The Ephesians were told that they "were without Christ" and they are "now in Christ Jesus". If they were always chosen "in Him" from before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) then at what point were they found to be "without Christ"? Didn't you previously tell me that "we are kept by the power of God. How much more sure can you get?"?
(Eph 2:11) Therefore remember that you, the nations, in time past were in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
(Eph 2:12) and that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world.
(Eph 2:13) But now in Christ Jesus you who were once afar off are made near by the blood of Christ.
We are elected "in Him" when we believe "in Him" (Eph 1:4). Therefore, all elect are believers by definition. And to become a believer we make use of our heart, conscience, will, etc... So it can be said that election is according to one's will. That's why election is very much conditional on our willingness to be diligent:I Square it by being a Sola Scripturist. I use All Scripture to come to the knowledge of the Truth. We are Elect not by Works unless we boast. Yes, we are Saved because we Believe; but we aren't Elect according to our Will...
We can discuss Election and Justification although they do overlap significantly mostly in regard to preordained good works.Let's you and I start talking about Categories. Are Election and Justification two Categories or just one Category? This can be all solved if we ask the right questions. If we ask the wrong questions, nothing will ever be solved...
Excellent! How is it that you picked up so quickly on how critical our faith "in Christ" is and Calvinists are left way behind? We don't denigrate God when we say that. All glory goes to God. What is the mental block that impedes Calvinists from understanding these facts?One is without Christ until they become saved . One is not saved prior to faith in Christ.
The Bible as we cannot be in Christ before we believe .Excellent! How is it that you picked up so quickly on how critical our faith "in Christ" is and Calvinists are left way behind? We don't denigrate God when we say that. All glory goes to God. What is the mental block that impedes Calvinists from understanding these facts?
The saved were predestined before the foundation of the world.One is without Christ until they become saved . One is not saved prior to faith in Christ.
Yet we were predestined IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world.The Bible as we cannot be in Christ before we believe .
We are holy and without blame because of HIS action, not ours.Human action is clearly indicated and demanded in Eph 1:4 when we are told to "be holy and without blame before Him in Love":
(Eph 1:4) according as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
How can one satisfy that requirement without being a Christian who believes "in Christ"?
Yet you did not exist to be in Christ .Yet we were predestined IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world.
Please forward Bible verse that says that without conflating election and predestination.Yet we were predestined IN CHRIST before the foundation of the world.
Please forward Bible verse that says that without conflating election and predestination.
How many times have I told you that. You have selective hearing and a novel theology.Excellent! How is it that you picked up so quickly on how critical our faith "in Christ" is and Calvinists are left way behind?
Theological novelty. ^^We are elected "in Him" when we believe "in Him" (Eph 1:4).