LDS and adding something to the Finished work of Christ

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Bonnie said:
Part 2:
These verses demolish faith/grace plus works pseudo-Christian cult groups, that would add to the finished and perfect work of Christ on the cross, where our sins were nailed to His cross and taken out of the way. The cults would have that Jesus somehow needs our imperfect works to complete what He did for us on the cross.
Where are you getting the idea the LDS add anything to the finished works of Jesus Christ? Cite, please.

As I have maintained for years here--you seem to be the one who believes one has to add something to the finished work of Jesus Christ.

The LDS believe it is an absolute free gift:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men. Those who have faith--those who don't.

You have postulated for years one has to add their faith to that in order for it to come as a free gift to one. I disagree. We have to add NOTHING to Christ's perfect sacrifice and His free gift to all men. His free gift--not His and yours. Nor His and mine.

IOW--one would have to take the stance of the Reformed church to believe that---as all men include those who will never have faith in Christ--and yet--it was a free gift to them also, or else--God didn't die for them also, and the free gift was only to them which are the elect(predestination). Limited Atonement. Bonnie--it was a free gift to all men--even those who would never have faith in Christ. And that free gift was death and hell ---was conquered for all men, as it relates to the Fall. The curse was found--and all men now have the OPPORTUNITY to inherit life, because of the free gift of the Atonement and resurrection(death and hell)--and that free gift had nothing to do with your faith. Free. Christ alone. Done. Over. Finished. Nailed to the Cross. And finished when He finished it--not when you add faith to it.

The LDS believe it was God alone--God plus nothing, and especially not your imperfect faith, nor mine--- because if that were added--the Atonement would have failed.

So--I don't know what you are talking about--and neither do you, IMO--when you say the LDS feel they have to add something to His work. You are the one who advocates we have to add something--not the LDS.

Comments?
 

Beloved Daughter

Active member
Where are you getting the idea the LDS add anything to the finished works of Jesus Christ? Cite, please.

As I have maintained for years here--you seem to be the one who believes one has to add something to the finished work of Jesus Christ.

The LDS believe it is an absolute free gift:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men. Those who have faith--those who don't.

You have postulated for years one has to add their faith to that in order for it to come as a free gift to one. I disagree. We have to add NOTHING to Christ's perfect sacrifice and His free gift to all men. His free gift--not His and yours. Nor His and mine.

IOW--one would have to take the stance of the Reformed church to believe that---as all men include those who will never have faith in Christ--and yet--it was a free gift to them also, or else--God didn't die for them also, and the free gift was only to them which are the elect(predestination). Limited Atonement. Bonnie--it was a free gift to all men--even those who would never have faith in Christ. And that free gift was death and hell ---was conquered for all men, as it relates to the Fall. The curse was found--and all men now have the OPPORTUNITY to inherit life, because of the free gift of the Atonement and resurrection(death and hell)--and that free gift had nothing to do with your faith. Free. Christ alone. Done. Over. Finished. Nailed to the Cross. And finished when He finished it--not when you add faith to it.

The LDS believe it was God alone--God plus nothing, and especially not your imperfect faith, nor mine--- because if that were added--the Atonement would have failed.

So--I don't know what you are talking about--and neither do you, IMO--when you say the LDS feel they have to add something to His work. You are the one who advocates we have to add something--not the LDS.

Comments?

It helps to understand what the original Greek said.

In this case, the Greek word is 'pas'.

It can be used in different ways. But for this verse, this is the break down.

The KJV translates Strong's G3956 in the following manner: all (748x), all things (170x), every (117x), all men (41x), whosoever (31x), everyone (28x), whole (12x), all manner of (11x), every man (11x), no (with G3756) (9x), every thing (7x), any (7x), whatsoever (6x), whosoever (with G3739) (with G302) (3x), always (with G1223) (3x), daily (with G2250) (2x), any thing (2x), no (with G3361) (2x), not translated (7x), miscellaneous (26x).

Since we know that this cannot be a case of a single individual we are left with 'collectively'.

  1. individually
    1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
  2. collectively
    1. some of all types

It never says every person whoever lived.

John 6:37-39 King James Version (KJV)

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I /should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.



John 6:44
King James Version (KJV)

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.




Romans 9:14-24
King James Version (KJV)

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses,
I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore
hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath
not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


Acts 13:48English Standard Version (ESV)


48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord,
and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

These verses all reveal that salvation is LIMITED.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
It helps to understand what the original Greek said.

In this case, the Greek word is 'pas'.

It can be used in different ways. But for this verse, this is the break down.

The KJV translates Strong's G3956 in the following manner: all (748x), all things (170x), every (117x), all men (41x), whosoever (31x), everyone (28x), whole (12x), all manner of (11x), every man (11x), no (with G3756) (9x), every thing (7x), any (7x), whatsoever (6x), whosoever (with G3739) (with G302) (3x), always (with G1223) (3x), daily (with G2250) (2x), any thing (2x), no (with G3361) (2x), not translated (7x), miscellaneous (26x).

Since we know that this cannot be a case of a single individual we are left with 'collectively'.

  1. individually
    1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
  2. collectively
    1. some of all types

It never says every person whoever lived.

John 6:37-39 King James Version (KJV)

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I /should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.



John 6:44
King James Version (KJV)

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.




Romans 9:14-24
King James Version (KJV)

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses,
I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore
hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath
not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


Acts 13:48English Standard Version (ESV)


48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

These verses all reveal that salvation is LIMITED.
And you are relating this--to what?

What is your point?
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Where are you getting the idea the LDS add anything to the finished works of Jesus Christ? Cite, please.

As I have maintained for years here--you seem to be the one who believes one has to add something to the finished work of Jesus Christ.

The LDS believe it is an absolute free gift:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men. Those who have faith--those who don't.

You have postulated for years one has to add their faith to that in order for it to come as a free gift to one. I disagree. We have to add NOTHING to Christ's perfect sacrifice and His free gift to all men. His free gift--not His and yours. Nor His and mine.

IOW--one would have to take the stance of the Reformed church to believe that---as all men include those who will never have faith in Christ--and yet--it was a free gift to them also, or else--God didn't die for them also, and the free gift was only to them which are the elect(predestination). Limited Atonement. Bonnie--it was a free gift to all men--even those who would never have faith in Christ. And that free gift was death and hell ---was conquered for all men, as it relates to the Fall. The curse was found--and all men now have the OPPORTUNITY to inherit life, because of the free gift of the Atonement and resurrection(death and hell)--and that free gift had nothing to do with your faith. Free. Christ alone. Done. Over. Finished. Nailed to the Cross. And finished when He finished it--not when you add faith to it.

The LDS believe it was God alone--God plus nothing, and especially not your imperfect faith, nor mine--- because if that were added--the Atonement would have failed.

So--I don't know what you are talking about--and neither do you, IMO--when you say the LDS feel they have to add something to His work. You are the one who advocates we have to add something--not the LDS.

Comments?
What is added? Mormon temples, Mormon temple ordinances; Mormon temple covenants--which Mormons must do IF they want full salvation to eternal life in the CK and godhood, after death.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
What is added?
As I stated--you believe you have to add something to Christ's Blood for His Atonement to Redeem us. The LDS don't. We believe it was sufficient and effective to redeem all of mankind, as to the Fall--without one single thing other than that.

Christ alone--not Christ plus your or my faith.

As you stated once--is your God not big enough to do that?

Mormon temples, Mormon temple ordinances; Mormon temple covenants--which Mormons must do IF they want full salvation to eternal life in the CK and godhood, after death.
The LDS don't add anything there to His Atonement. It was Christ alone--as to the free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

"came upon"--past tense. Free gift. Christ alone. Done. Over. Nailed to the cross.

That delivered all men from the condemnation of the Fall--and presented all mankind with open doors to eternal life--as an opportunity.

Freed all men to chose, and be judged according to their own choices--and not Adam's.

We are now judged according to our own works:

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

(the "we" there is a reference to Christians)
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
What is added? Mormon temples, Mormon temple ordinances; Mormon temple covenants--which Mormons must do IF they want full salvation to eternal life in the CK and godhood, after death.
Bonnie--I would like to address this from another perspective also.

If you are asking, just so those things are attached to eternal life--that means one adds to Christ's work?

If that is so--were the Biblical writers adding something also?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Bonnie--your reasoning there does not make sense--when contrasted with the testimony of the Biblical witness. The Biblical NT is chocked full of testimonies which connect works with eternal life, IE--

Matthew 7:19-21---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

There are literally hundreds of verses in the Biblical text connecting our actions with eternal life.

Your point only makes sense when you contrast it with your own theology--which the Biblical testimony grinds to powder.
 

Beloved Daughter

Active member
Where are you getting the idea the LDS add anything to the finished works of Jesus Christ? Cite, please.

As I have maintained for years here--you seem to be the one who believes one has to add something to the finished work of Jesus Christ.

The LDS believe it is an absolute free gift:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men. Those who have faith--those who don't.

You have postulated for years one has to add their faith to that in order for it to come as a free gift to one. I disagree. We have to add NOTHING to Christ's perfect sacrifice and His free gift to all men. His free gift--not His and yours. Nor His and mine.

IOW--one would have to take the stance of the Reformed church to believe that---as all men include those who will never have faith in Christ--and yet--it was a free gift to them also, or else--God didn't die for them also, and the free gift was only to them which are the elect(predestination). Limited Atonement. Bonnie--it was a free gift to all men--even those who would never have faith in Christ. And that free gift was death and hell ---was conquered for all men, as it relates to the Fall. The curse was found--and all men now have the OPPORTUNITY to inherit life, because of the free gift of the Atonement and resurrection(death and hell)--and that free gift had nothing to do with your faith. Free. Christ alone. Done. Over. Finished. Nailed to the Cross. And finished when He finished it--not when you add faith to it.

The LDS believe it was God alone--God plus nothing, and especially not your imperfect faith, nor mine--- because if that were added--the Atonement would have failed.

So--I don't know what you are talking about--and neither do you, IMO--when you say the LDS feel they have to add something to His work. You are the one who advocates we have to add something--not the LDS.

Comments?

Your book, your problem.

 

Bonnie

Well-known member
You asked for an example, and I gave you one. You know very well temple works and ordinances and covenants are necessary for exaltation to the CK after death, if one wants to evolve into a God in your church, and become creators of worlds, etc. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible about any of that being necessary for eternal life in heaven.

This post of yours is nothing but a diversionary tactic to keep from dealing with the proof that your church adds to the finished work of Jesus Christ all over the place. Also, on the last 2 boards,, I dealt with the "walking in the light" verse by quoting something else, that shows that we walk IN the light when we are IN Jesus Christ our Lord. Which you ignored. But I will humor you and post to you what I archived from the last boards, about this "walking in the light":

In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. The Witness John


6 There [c]came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 [d]He came [e]as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 [f]He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

9There was the true Light [g]which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.
Jesus is the TRUE Light. When we believe in Him for salvation, and trust in HIM ALONE to be saved, we then "walk in Jesus" ergo, "walk in the Light."

Paul says in Colossians 1:

3 We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have [d]for all the [e]saints; 5 because of the hope laid up for you in [f]heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, [g]the gospel 6 which has come to you, just as [h]in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and [j]understood the grace of God in truth; 7 just as you learned it from Epaphras, our beloved fellow bond-servant, who is a faithful servant of Christ on our behalf, 8 and he also informed us of your love in the Spirit.
From this, we can ascertain that the Colossians bore fruit IN their faith in Jesus, AFTER they heard and believed the Gospel message that Epahras had given them. The fruit they were bearing is part of "walking in the Light". Paul continues:

9 For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the [k]knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, [l]to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and [m]increasing in the [n]knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all power, according to [o]His glorious might, [p]for the attaining of all steadfastness and [q]patience; joyously 12giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us [r]to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.

According to Paul, we can see Who it is Who QUALIFIES us to share in the inheritance--eternal life--of the saint IN LIGHT. We are not qualified by our OWN efforts, since they will always be tainted by sin, but by what Jesus did for us on the cross--He exchanged our sins for His Righteousness. What an exchange!


Paul says in Colossians 2:

6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so [e]walk in Him, 7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established [f]in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing [g]with gratitude.
AS we have received Christ Jesus the Lord, SO we walk in Him. The reception of Jesus Christ as our Savior THEN enables us to "walk in the Light." ON ACCOUNT OF OUR FAITH IN HIM we are able to walk in Him.

Those in works righteous cults do not understand this nor can they without the indwelling Holy Spirit. For such things must be spiritually discerned. As Paul also wrote "the message of the cross is foolishness for those who are perishing but for those of us who are being saved, IT IS THE POWER OF GOD."

Being saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord apart from any works we do sounds like foolishness to them--too good to be true! But it isn't! For greater than God's justice is His MERCY! "He saved us NOT on account of works we have done in righteousness but on account of His MERCY." (Titus 3).



every time you bring up this "walking in the light" stuff, this is the answer you will get. It will not vary.


Every time you bring up this "walking in the light" stuff, THIS is the answer you will get. It will not vary.
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Bonnie--I would like to address this from another perspective also.

If you are asking, just so those things are attached to eternal life--that means one adds to Christ's work?

If that is so--were the Biblical writers adding something also?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Bonnie--your reasoning there does not make sense--when contrasted with the testimony of the Biblical witness. The Biblical NT is chocked full of testimonies which connect works with eternal life, IE--

Matthew 7:19-21---King James Version
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

I have addressed the "light" verses before on here on the old boards. You ignored what I wrote then and probably will now. But I archived my response to you. Every time you bring it up, I will simply repost what I wrote back then, which I archived. Here it is (I am sorry about the line through some of it; I don't know where that came from and I cannot get rid of it)

In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

The Witness John
6 There [c]came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 [d]He came [e]as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 [f]He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

9There was the true Light [g]which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.---

Jesus is the TRUE Light. When we believe in Him for salvation, and trust in HIM ALONE to be saved, we then "walk in Jesus", ergo, "walk in the Light."

Paul says in Colossians 1:

3 We give thanks to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and the love which you have [d]for all the [e]saints; 5 because of the hope laid up for you in [f]heaven, of which you previously heard in the word of truth, [g]the gospel 6 which has come to you, just as [h]in all the world also it is constantly bearing fruit and increasing, even as it has been doing in you also since the day you heard of it and [j]understood the grace of God in truth; 7 just as you learned it from Epaphras, our beloved fellow bond-servant, who is a faithful servant of Christ on our behalf, 8 and he also informed us of your love in the Spirit.--

From this, we can ascertain that the Colossians bore fruit IN their faith in Jesus, AFTER they heard and believed the Gospel message that Epahras had given them. The fruit they were bearing is part of "walking in the Light". Paul continues:

9 For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the [k]knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, [l]to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and [m]increasing in the [n]knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all power, according to [o]His glorious might, [p]for the attaining of all steadfastness and [q]patience; joyously 12giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us [r]to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.

According to Paul, we can see Who it is Who QUALIFIES us to share in the inheritance--eternal life--of the saint IN LIGHT. We are not qualified by our OWN efforts, since they will always be tainted by sin, but by what Jesus did for us on the cross--He exchanged our sins for His Righteousness. What an exchange!

Paul says in Colossians 2:

6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so [e]walk in Him, 7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established [f]in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing [g]with gratitude.

AS we have received Christ Jesus the Lord, SO we walk in Him. The reception of Jesus Christ as our Savior THEN enables us to "walk in the Light." ON ACCOUNT OF OUR FAITH IN HIM we are able to walk in Him.

Those in works righteous cults do not understand this nor can they without the indwelling Holy Spirit. For such things must be spiritually discerned. As Paul also wrote "the message of the cross is foolishness for those who are perishing but for those of us who are being saved, IT IS THE POWER OF GOD."

Being saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord apart from any works we do sounds like foolishness to them--too good to be true! But it isn't! For greater than God's justice is His MERCY! "He saved us NOT on account of works we have done in righteousness but on account of His MERCY." (Titus 3).
 
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Magdalena

Active member
Where are you getting the idea the LDS add anything to the finished works of Jesus Christ? Cite, please.

As I have maintained for years here--you seem to be the one who believes one has to add something to the finished work of Jesus Christ.

The LDS believe it is an absolute free gift:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

All men. Those who have faith--those who don't.

You have postulated for years one has to add their faith to that in order for it to come as a free gift to one. I disagree. We have to add NOTHING to Christ's perfect sacrifice and His free gift to all men. His free gift--not His and yours. Nor His and mine.

IOW--one would have to take the stance of the Reformed church to believe that---as all men include those who will never have faith in Christ--and yet--it was a free gift to them also, or else--God didn't die for them also, and the free gift was only to them which are the elect(predestination). Limited Atonement. Bonnie--it was a free gift to all men--even those who would never have faith in Christ. And that free gift was death and hell ---was conquered for all men, as it relates to the Fall. The curse was found--and all men now have the OPPORTUNITY to inherit life, because of the free gift of the Atonement and resurrection(death and hell)--and that free gift had nothing to do with your faith. Free. Christ alone. Done. Over. Finished. Nailed to the Cross. And finished when He finished it--not when you add faith to it.

The LDS believe it was God alone--God plus nothing, and especially not your imperfect faith, nor mine--- because if that were added--the Atonement would have failed.

So--I don't know what you are talking about--and neither do you, IMO--when you say the LDS feel they have to add something to His work. You are the one who advocates we have to add something--not the LDS.

Comments?
That’s not true. The Christian belief is that Grace is a free gift. Mormon belief is that you have to add your works first. And then Grace kicks in... ”After all you can do.”
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
That’s not true. The Christian belief is that Grace is a free gift. Mormon belief is that you have to add your works first. And then Grace kicks in... ”After all you can do.”
Amazing the amnesia in Mormonism....do they forget the temple works, ordinances, and covenants they must make and keep, until death, if they wish to be "exalted" to "godhood" in the CK after death, and become creators of worlds?

Even the lds online dictionary agrees with you. One must expend one's own efforts to the fullest before that grace will kick in. Look at the video in post no. 8. It shows the problem with that. But that is not true grace. "Grace" means God's UNdeserved favor.
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
As I stated--you believe you have to add something to Christ's Blood for His Atonement to Redeem us. The LDS don't. We believe it was sufficient and effective to redeem all of mankind, as to the Fall--without one single thing other than that.

Christ alone--not Christ plus your or my faith.

As you stated once--is your God not big enough to do that?


The LDS don't add anything there to His Atonement. It was Christ alone--as to the free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

"came upon"--past tense. Free gift. Christ alone. Done. Over. Nailed to the cross.

That delivered all men from the condemnation of the Fall--and presented all mankind with open doors to eternal life--as an opportunity.

Freed all men to chose, and be judged according to their own choices--and not Adam's.

We are now judged according to our own works:

2 Corinthians 5:10---King James Version (KJV)
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

(the "we" there is a reference to Christians)
I believe nothing of the sort. it is Mormonism that has added to the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross, with its unholy and unbiblical temples and the works and covenants done and made therein, which are necessary to do and make, if a Mormon wants to be exalted to godhood in the CK after death and become creators of worlds. You know very well that is added to what the Bible actually has in it, because none of it can be found there.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
That’s not true. The Christian belief is that Grace is a free gift.

So--the free gift of Romans5:18 went to all men--excluding their faith?
Mormon belief is that you have to add your works first. And then Grace kicks in... ”After all you can do.”
Not true--as to the free gift of Romans5:18. The free gift of His Atonement went to all men--independent of faith, obedience, endurance, belief, etc.

Christ alone. That's LDS theology.

Faith alone theology preaches one must add their faith to His Atonement, in order to receive the free gift. The LDS preach one adds nothing--it was Christ alone.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
You asked for an example, and I gave you one.
Not to the free gift addressed in Romans5:18. The LDS do not add any works to Christ's work. That was Christ alone.

The faith alone believe one must add their faith to Christ's free gift to all men. The LDS reject that. They believe it was an absolute free gift.
 

Magdalena

Active member
Not to the free gift addressed in Romans5:18. The LDS do not add any works to Christ's work. That was Christ alone.

The faith alone believe one must add their faith to Christ's free gift to all men. The LDS reject that. They believe it was an absolute free gift.
Once again, you attempt to mislead people about mormon beliefs. What you’re saying here is absolutely not true.
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
Once again, you attempt to mislead people about mormon beliefs. What you’re saying here is absolutely not true.
What you wrote is true. Mormonism adds temple works one must perform in order to be "worthy" of exaltation to godhood after death, and to become creators of worlds and populate them with their own spirit children. Of course, there is nothing whatsoever in the Bible about Mormon temples and the ordinances done and covenants made therein. The LDS church teaches "for doctrine the commandments of men."
 

Bonnie

Well-known member
What you wrote is true. Mormonism adds temple works one must perform in order to be "worthy" of exaltation to godhood after death, and to become creators of worlds and populate them with their own spirit children. Of course, there is nothing whatsoever in the Bible about Mormon temples and the ordinances done and covenants made therein. The LDS church teaches "for doctrine the commandments of men."

The Bible says much about faith, which is BELIEVING in Jesus Christ for salvation. Jesus says if we BELIEVE in Him, we would have eternal life. But it too is the GIFT OF GOD. Grace and faith are 2 sides to the same coin. And Paul says we access grace through faith.
 
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