LDS and adding something to the Finished work of Christ

brotherofJared

Well-known member
It helps to understand what the original Greek said.
Maybe you ought to explain that to be people who translated the original Greek into English. Maybe they didn't understand it.
  1. collectively
    1. some of all types

It never says every person whoever lived.
"Collectively" can also mean the sum of all types. Hence the word "all" men is used because it is appropriate. What is your evidence that Paul meant that only some will receive the free gift? Based on that definition, then some of the most vile men, the most evil men will receive this free gift, while some of the best men and the most righteous men won't. Who wants to participate in that lottery?
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
This is a great verse that tells us that we must come to Christ, that what we do makes the difference. It's not a lottery. This also expresses the difference between salvation and the atonement. The atonement is the free gift to all, every single person. Salvation only comes to those who come to Christ.
These verses all reveal that salvation is LIMITED.
AMEN. Salvation is limited. How then, is it free?
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Nope. Temples were removed from the gospel that God established through Moses. We didn't add them. We put them back where they belong.
God did not establish the Gospel thru Moses but the Law. As John 1 says, "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."

Romans destroyed the Jewish temple in AD 70. The temple's main purpose was to perform various sacrifices to God. Like slaughtering animals for the forgiveness of sins. Such are unnecessary, for they were completely fulfilled in Jesus Christ and the sacrifice of Himself in the cross. So we have no more need of temples, since in Christ Jesus each and every believer is a temple of the HS.

What Mormons do in their temples do not even remotely resemble what happened in,the be temple God authorized to be built.

So yes, Mormonism has added its very expensive and totally unnecessary temples to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. ONLY the
worthy may enter its portals in order to perform the ordinance and make the covenants necessary so that one may be exalted to Godhood in the CK after death. And part of what makes a person worthy to get into the temples is tithing.

So, yes, the LDS church HAS added greatly to the pure Gospel of the true Jesus Christ. ,making it NO Gospel at all. And those that teach it are ANATHEMA--cursed by God!
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
I'm suggesting that "all" doesn't mean every single individual who has lived or will live.
It does mean every single person who has lived or will live. ;) However, while the atonement covers every single person who has lived or will live, Salvation does not, though it is freely available and can be bought without money or price. However, it will cost you the willingness to give away ever sin you ever held in order to know Him who has the power to save.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
You asked for an example, and I gave you one. You know very well temple works and ordinances and covenants are necessary for exaltation to the CK after death, if one wants to evolve into a God in your church, and become creators of worlds, etc. There is absolutely nothing in the Bible about any of that being necessary for eternal life in heaven.

This post of yours is nothing but a diversionary tactic to keep from dealing with the proof that your church adds to the finished work of Jesus Christ all over the place. Also, on the last 2 boards,, I dealt with the "walking in the light" verse by quoting something else, that shows that we walk IN the light when we are IN Jesus Christ our Lord. Which you ignored. But I will humor you and post to you what I archived from the last boards, about this "walking in the light":



Every time you bring up this "walking in the light" stuff, THIS is the answer you will get. It will not vary.
However, if you do not walk in the light, you cannot be saved. ;)
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
God did not establish the Gospel thru Moses but the Law.
The Law came later. The Law has nothing to do with the temple. The Law deals with the acts of men. The temple deals with the exaltation of man. Before any of the Law was given, Moses stood before the burning bush on sacred ground. That is what the temple represents. It is where God, like he did with Moses, intends to sanctify his people and endow them with power. This message is consistent with what we learn in the Revelations. After all this was done, the elders of Israel, 70 of them, were invited to meet the Lord as Moses did. But they were afraid and rejected that meeting telling Moses that he should talk to the Lord and then tell them what the Lord said. That changed the function of the temple for most of Israel. It does not seem to have had any impact on the prophets. This is why there appear to be two priesthoods in ancient Israel. There was the lesser priesthood who performed the outward ordinances and then there were the prophets who administered to the spiritual aspects of the people.

Two problems here. 1. Our critics don't have any priesthood, much less either of those. and 2. Our critics don't have temples. But is clear that temples were the central focus of the religion you all claim you espouse.

The first is obvious, so much so, that you will now claim that everyone holds the priesthood in your church effectively saying that no one holds the priesthood. It is no more than regular people running around doing whatever they want. The second is obvious that temples were removed from the gospel of Jesus Christ. John made it clear that temples were very much a part of the gospel. In fact, it is the culminating center of and the focused apex of the Savior's gospel. We didn't add them. They were already there. We put them back.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
God did not establish the Gospel thru Moses but the Law. As John 1 says, "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."

Romans destroyed the Jewish temple in AD 70. The temple's main purpose was to perform various sacrifices to God. Like slaughtering animals for the forgiveness of sins. Such are unnecessary, for they were completely fulfilled in Jesus Christ and the sacrifice of Himself in the cross. So we have no more need of temples, since in Christ Jesus each and every believer is a temple of the HS.

What Mormons do in their temples do not even remotely resemble what happened in,the be temple God authorized to be built.

So yes, Mormonism has added its very expensive and totally unnecessary temples to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. ONLY the
worthy may enter its portals in order to perform the ordinance and make the covenants necessary so that one may be exalted to Godhood in the CK after death. And part of what makes a person worthy to get into the temples is tithing.

So, yes, the LDS church HAS added greatly to the pure Gospel of the true Jesus Christ. ,making it NO Gospel at all. And those that teach it are ANATHEMA--cursed by God!
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
God did not establish the Gospel thru Moses but the Law.

Paul's testimony was that the Mosaic Law was added to the gospel:

Galatians 3:19---King James Version
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

The gospel was already present when Abraham lived:

Galatians 3:8---King James Version
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

That's the reason when the Law was fulfilled--the commandments remained--Abraham had them before the Law was added.

Romans destroyed the Jewish temple in AD 70. The temple's main purpose was to perform various sacrifices to God. Like slaughtering animals for the forgiveness of sins. Such are unnecessary, for they were completely fulfilled in Jesus Christ and the sacrifice of Himself in the cross. So we have no more need of temples, since in Christ Jesus each and every believer is a temple of the HS.
You might want to relate that to Jesus:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Revelation 11:1-2----King James Version
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
What Mormons do in their temples do not even remotely resemble what happened in,the be temple God authorized to be built.
What we find the Apostles teaching in many NT salvational principles--- is not found anywhere in the OT.

Bonnie--that's the power of revelation. Apostles. Prophets. Priesthood.

So yes, Mormonism has added its very expensive and totally unnecessary temples to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Is "expensive" a measure of whether God commands it?

http://althistory.wikia.com/wiki/Use...Temple_cost%3F


Solomon's Temple, built in the 10th Century BC, by King Solomon of Israel son of King David of Israel. While no evidence stands for or against the existence of such a temple and no extra-biblical evidence has been found of it, its existence is probable due to the many biblical references from many different authors and time periods.

The temple was said to have a great quantity of gold, silver, bronze, and other precious metals. The temple consisted of several layers, with the Most Holy Place housing the Ark of the Covenant in the center.

So, how much did Solomon's temple cost? The amount of gold, silver and bronze, along with other precious metals are recorded in various places in the Bible.

1 Chronicles 22:14- 100,000 talents of gold, 1 million talents of silver, quantities of bronze and iron too great to be weighted.

1 Chronicles 29:3- 3,000 talents of gold, 7,000 talents of silver from David's personal treasures.

1 Chronicles 29:7- 5,002.5 talents of gold, 10,000 talents of silver, 18,000 talents of bronze, 100,000 talents of iron from the leaders of Israel.

1 Kings 5:10- King Hiram of Tyre gave Solomon many cedar trees for the temple.

In total, over 108,002.5 talents of gold, 1,017,000 talents of silver, and quantities of bronze much greater than that. A great quantity of cedar trees were used- so many, in fact, that Solomon had to pay King Hiram with 20 towns in Galilee! (1 Kings 9:11)

108,002.5 talents of gold would beg an incredible amount of gold. One talent was approximately 75 pounds, so 108,002.5 talents would be a mind-boggling 8,100,187.5 pounds of gold. 1,017,000 talents of silver would be an equally mind-boggling 76,275,000 pounds of silver! Excluding the bronze, and using the average current price of gold, the gold alone of Solomon's temple would have been an astonishing $194,404,500,000. The silver would have been $22,199,076,000. Added together, the gold and silver used along in Solomon's Temple was worth $216,603,576,000. This does not include all the precious metals, bronze, iron, ivory, or cedar wood used in the temple. Extrapolating from the number, the total cost of Solomon's temple including the labor costs (153,000 forced laborers) would have been well over half a billion, a cost simply unimaginable in today's world for one building. Building the temple took over seven years.

ONLY the worthy may enter its portals in order to perform the ordinance

And???

2 Thessalonians 1:5--King James Version (KJV)
5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
It does mean every single person who has lived or will live. ;) However, while the atonement covers every single person who has lived or will live, Salvation does not, though it is freely available and can be bought without money or price. However, it will cost you the willingness to give away ever sin you ever held in order to know Him who has the power to save.

The Greek language says you are wrong.

1 Timothy 2:4

4 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.



  1. individually
    1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
  2. collectively
    1. some of all types

Since 'all' is collective, it means every tribe, tongue and nation.

 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Maybe you ought to explain that to be people who translated the original Greek into English. Maybe they didn't understand it.

"Collectively" can also mean the sum of all types. Hence the word "all" men is used because it is appropriate. What is your evidence that Paul meant that only some will receive the free gift? Based on that definition, then some of the most vile men, the most evil men will receive this free gift, while some of the best men and the most righteous men won't. Who wants to participate in that lottery?

This is a great verse that tells us that we must come to Christ, that what we do makes the difference. It's not a lottery. This also expresses the difference between salvation and the atonement. The atonement is the free gift to all, every single person. Salvation only comes to those who come to Christ.

AMEN. Salvation is limited. How then, is it free?

For those who receive it, it is completely grace, no works required.

 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
For those who receive it, it is completely grace, no works required.
It states all men received it:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Here is the context:--"the offence of one judgment came upon all men"

So--did the condemnation of the Fall come on all men--or just some?
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
It states all men received it:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Here is the context:--"the offence of one judgment came upon all men"

So--did the condemnation of the Fall come on all men--or just some?
I'm very familiar with Romans 5:18.

The condemnation came upon all men. But not all men will be saved. Only the elect are chosen.

Ephesians 1:3-11English Standard Version (ESV)

Spiritual Blessings in Christ


3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us[a] for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[b] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Db

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life
This applies to the many in Vs 19 and it's referring to the Sheep or Elect!
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
I'm very familiar with Romans 5:18.

The condemnation came upon all men. But not all men will be saved.
But all men receive the blessings of the atonement. Yes. Not all men will be saved. The atonement makes it possible that all men can be saved, but those who are saved must do something differently than those who are not saved. What they do differently is what saves them and they must do it or they cannot be saved. If they start doing it and then stop doing it, then they cannot be saved. This is an eternity long endeavor.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
But all men receive the blessings of the atonement. Yes. Not all men will be saved. The atonement makes it possible that all men can be saved, but those who are saved must do something differently than those who are not saved. What they do differently is what saves them and they must do it or they cannot be saved. If they start doing it and then stop doing it, then they cannot be saved. This is an eternity long endeavor.
That's not true.

You have been provided the Greek translation.

If you don't want to believe it, that's on you.
 
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