LDS Must Earn Physical Bodies, Resurrection, and Eternal Life

Janice Bower

Well-known member
earn
1. to gain or get in return for one's labor or service:
to earn one's living.
2. to merit as compensation, as for service; deserve:
to receive more than one has earned.


By Kelly Merrill
'For all the literal-minded people out there, let me preface this whole article with the statement that the word “estate” as used here has nothing to do with property. I was preparing a lesson on part of the plan of salvation recently and realized I would be talking about the subject of what it means to keep our second estate, now that we have already kept our first estate. It was only then that I recognized that no one had ever defined for me what an estate was, or what it means to “keep” an estate. It seems reasonable to assume that if we had to keep one estate before we could earn the right to come here, and we have to keep this estate before we can become exalted, that perhaps we should know what it means to successfully 'keep' an estate..."


According to Mormonism, all mortals earned their life on earth by obedience in pre-mortality. Life on earth is the second estate. When mortals die all will be resurrected because they earned mortality. The devil and his followers can't be resurrected.


"We took these mortal bodies; they were granted to us because of our obedience in the world before this, when we dwelt in the spirit and in the presence of God; and we are now suffering the sorrows as well as receiving the pleasures of the flesh."
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:2
Abraham 3:22-28; Moses 6:33, 48; 2 Nephi. 2:24-25


“[The Lord] will make possible all you qualify in worthiness to receive. Do not be discouraged. Living a pattern of life as close as possible to the ideal will provide much happiness, great satisfaction, and impressive growth while here on earth regardless of your current life circumstances.”

Doctrine and Covenants 82
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned. Again, the parable of the sheep and the goats gives us assurance that there will be total justice.”

Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 304–5



"Let us make our homes sanctuaries of righteousness, places of prayer, and abodes of love that we might merit the blessings that can come only from our Heavenly Father... How might we merit this promise [spoken of in Ezekiel 36]? What will qualify us to receive this blessing?"
Thomas S. Monson, "To Learn, to Do, to Be", General Conference, October 2008


“The gospel teaches us that relief from torment and guilt can be earned through repentance.”
Boyd K. Packer, The Brilliant Morning of Forgiveness, General Conference, October 1995;
Boyd K. Packer, The Savior’s Selfless and Sacred Sacrifice, Ensign, April 2015, and from a devotional address, “Truths Most Worth Knowing,” given at Brigham Young University on Nov. 6, 2011. For the full address, visit speeches.byu.edu.


"Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life."
Robert D. Hales, "Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets", October 2007 General Conference

Immortality connotes life without end. Eternal life, on the other hand, connotes quality of life — exaltation, the highest type of immortality, the kind of life enjoyed by God himself. It is in the attainment of eternal life, which man must earn in mortality, that he reaches his full potentiality.
Marion G. Romney, of the First Presidency, The Worth of Souls, October 1978 General Conference, Ensign, November, 1978, p. 14


3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Pearl of Great Price, Articles of Faith (LDS scriptures)

•Mortality is the time for us to repent. We will carry the qualities and habits we gain in this life with us into the next life (see Alma 34:32–35).
Book of Mormon Teacher Resource Manual, (2004), 165
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.
Book of Mormon, Alma 34
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.
Book of Mormon, Alma 34

So--could you explain for us--how that is any different than the testimony of the Savior?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
So--could you explain for us--how that is any different than the testimony of the Savior?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Your off-topic remark doesn't apply to this thread:

LDS Must Earn Physical Bodies, Resurrection, and Eternal Life

Christians' blessings are not dependent on obedience to Mormonism or x, y, and z. Your so-called savior can't be compared to our TRUE Savior because your savior doesn't exist. Figments of Joseph Smith's mind are just that: figments.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Your off-topic remark doesn't apply to this thread:

LDS Must Earn Physical Bodies, Resurrection, and Eternal Life


John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Again--is a judgment according to works--and that for the "resurrection of life"--or "resurrection of damnation"--an example of earning a resurrection or eternal life?

Why is that "off-topic"?
 

Richard7

Well-known member
earn
1. to gain or get in return for one's labor or service:
to earn one's living.
2. to merit as compensation, as for service; deserve:
to receive more than one has earned.
Earn• gain or incur deservedly in return for one's behavior or achievements:
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
By Kelly Merrill
And who is Kelly Merrill that we should spend any time worrying about the way she worded her statement? What exactly did we do to "earn" this second estate? Does she say?
we had to keep one estate before we could earn the right to come here
This doesn't make sense. We had to "keep one estate BEFORE we could earn....?" That is so strange because I thought that what we did to get the right to come here, not something we had to do before. But none of that explains what we did to "earn" it. As I said before as you continue to beat this dead horse, getting in a line is hardly what I'd call earning anything. One line goes with Satan and the other goes with Christ, that's all it took. Now explain to me how that is earning "the right to come here". What exactly did we do to earn it?
According to Mormonism, all mortals earned their life on earth by obedience in pre-mortality.
again, Obedience to what? You're building a straw man.
When mortals die all will be resurrected because they earned mortality.
False. All mortals will be resurrected because Jesus overcame death. We had nothing to do with that.
"We took these mortal bodies; they were granted to us because of our obedience in the world before this, when we dwelt in the spirit and in the presence of God; and we are now suffering the sorrows as well as receiving the pleasures of the flesh."
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:2
Abraham 3:22-28; Moses 6:33, 48; 2 Nephi. 2:24-25
again, obedience to what?
“[The Lord] will make possible all you qualify in worthiness to receive. Do not be discouraged. Living a pattern of life as close as possible to the ideal will provide much happiness, great satisfaction, and impressive growth while here on earth regardless of your current life circumstances.”
I don't know what your source was for this, but that phrase, "the lord will make possible all" indicates that it was Jesus that made it possible, not our decision to come here.
Doctrine and Covenants 82
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.
I don't know how you are relating this to earning a physical body. I still don't know what we did to earn it. I don't think you know either.
“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned. Again, the parable of the sheep and the goats gives us assurance that there will be total justice.”
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 304–5
I think that phrase, "the blessings he has earned" is in reference to the punishment of the damned. It also has nothing to do with being here.
“The gospel teaches us that relief from torment and guilt can be earned through repentance.”
Again, I think that relief can be earned. What did you do? Did you do a word search for the word "earn" and then just make some random quotes from them?
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
So--could you explain for us--how that is any different than the testimony of the Savior?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Who will perform the good work?

1 Corinthians 1:8
Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who will confirm us to the end?

God has made us dead to sin. Our eyes are on Jesus not on the desires of the flesh. And we aren't saved by our own efforts. God is now working in us.

Romans 8
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


John 10
27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

We serve God out of love not out of a desire for more rewards. Saving faith is a work of God. (Philippians 1:6 and 2 Thessalonians 1:11)

Apart from Christ we can do nothing.

Psalm 121:7

7The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
earn
1. to gain or get in return for one's labor or service:
to earn one's living.
2. to merit as compensation, as for service; deserve:
to receive more than one has earned.


By Kelly Merrill
'For all the literal-minded people out there, let me preface this whole article with the statement that the word “estate” as used here has nothing to do with property. I was preparing a lesson on part of the plan of salvation recently and realized I would be talking about the subject of what it means to keep our second estate, now that we have already kept our first estate. It was only then that I recognized that no one had ever defined for me what an estate was, or what it means to “keep” an estate. It seems reasonable to assume that if we had to keep one estate before we could earn the right to come here, and we have to keep this estate before we can become exalted, that perhaps we should know what it means to successfully 'keep' an estate..."


According to Mormonism, all mortals earned their life on earth by obedience in pre-mortality. Life on earth is the second estate. When mortals die all will be resurrected because they earned mortality. The devil and his followers can't be resurrected.


"We took these mortal bodies; they were granted to us because of our obedience in the world before this, when we dwelt in the spirit and in the presence of God; and we are now suffering the sorrows as well as receiving the pleasures of the flesh."
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:2
Abraham 3:22-28; Moses 6:33, 48; 2 Nephi. 2:24-25


“[The Lord] will make possible all you qualify in worthiness to receive. Do not be discouraged. Living a pattern of life as close as possible to the ideal will provide much happiness, great satisfaction, and impressive growth while here on earth regardless of your current life circumstances.”

Doctrine and Covenants 82
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned. Again, the parable of the sheep and the goats gives us assurance that there will be total justice.”

Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 304–5



"Let us make our homes sanctuaries of righteousness, places of prayer, and abodes of love that we might merit the blessings that can come only from our Heavenly Father... How might we merit this promise [spoken of in Ezekiel 36]? What will qualify us to receive this blessing?"
Thomas S. Monson, "To Learn, to Do, to Be", General Conference, October 2008


“The gospel teaches us that relief from torment and guilt can be earned through repentance.”
Boyd K. Packer, The Brilliant Morning of Forgiveness, General Conference, October 1995;
Boyd K. Packer, The Savior’s Selfless and Sacred Sacrifice, Ensign, April 2015, and from a devotional address, “Truths Most Worth Knowing,” given at Brigham Young University on Nov. 6, 2011. For the full address, visit speeches.byu.edu.


"Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life."
Robert D. Hales, "Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets", October 2007 General Conference

Immortality connotes life without end. Eternal life, on the other hand, connotes quality of life — exaltation, the highest type of immortality, the kind of life enjoyed by God himself. It is in the attainment of eternal life, which man must earn in mortality, that he reaches his full potentiality.
Marion G. Romney, of the First Presidency, The Worth of Souls, October 1978 General Conference, Ensign, November, 1978, p. 14


3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
Pearl of Great Price, Articles of Faith (LDS scriptures)

•Mortality is the time for us to repent. We will carry the qualities and habits we gain in this life with us into the next life (see Alma 34:32–35).
Book of Mormon Teacher Resource Manual, (2004), 165
And Christians sit and wonder why Mormons think Christians believe in easy grace.

Matthew 7:13-14 KJV​

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

By walking the path Jesus gave, does that mean salvation is earned, because someone has to do something to receive it?

Moreoever, if you claim to know Mormonism how to you compare/contrast the statements when our physical bodies are a gift, resurrection is a gift, and eternal life is a gift?
I think it's obvious that your argument is nothing more than a strawman.
 
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Janice Bower

Well-known member
And Christians sit and wonder why Mormons think Christians believe in easy grace.
Dying on the cross is how Jesus saved us. There was nothing easy about it.


Matthew 7:13-14 KJV​

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Not one of us ever contradicted that verse.
By walking the path Jesus gave, does that mean salvation is earned, because someone has to do something to receive it?
As for earning, I've quoted yor leaders several times. You apparently think they were wrong.

Did you become an Eagle Scout? You earned the badges. Salavation is a gift, not a competition.

Did your parents give gifts based on obedience, so that one child could outstrip another?

Moreoever, if you claim to know Mormonism how to you compare/contrast the statements when our physical bodies are a gift,

Those bodies were given for obedience in a previous "estate". They weren't given to all of your heavenly father's children, were they?
Resurrection in Mormonism is only for those who earned the privilege of obtaining a physical (mortal) body in a previous estate.
Giffts don't require the recipient to earn it. In Mormonisn, many Mormons and leaders taught that it had to be earned, but some Mormons are now in denial. Denying that obedience to Mormonism is required means no one should become a misiionary to convert Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics, charismatics, Nazarenes, etc.

I think it's obvious that your argument is nothing more than a strawman.
It isn't a strawman; it's a truth you reject.
 
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Aaron32

Well-known member
Dying on the cross is how Jesus saved us. There was nothing easy about it.
You must not know what "easy grace" is.
Not one of us ever contradicted that verse.
I never said you did. I'm just asking since walking the path is required, if you're earning salvation. Inasmuch as you promote a do-nothing gospel, and obedience required is classified as "earning salvation"?
As for earning, I've quoted yor leaders several times. You apparently think they were wrong.
I think you take them out of context.
Did you become an Eagle Scout? You earned the badges. Salavation is a gift, not a competition.
But we get salvation by...doing nothing? Because you infer "action" = "earning" even saying the pray to accept Jesus as Savior is "earning" salvation. Or do we not even have to do that?
You're equally as bad as dberrie in misrepresenting your opposition.
Did your parents give gifts based on obedience, so that one child could outstrip another?
No, what does that have to do with anything? Why won't you answer the questions I'm asking you?
Those bodies were given for obedience in a previous "estate". They weren't given to all of your heavenly father's children, were they?
Yes, they were GIVEN, as a consequence for having faith. Just as salvation is GIVEN for having faith. Not everyone will receive salvation, will they?
Resurrection in Mormonism is only for those who earned the privilege of obtaining a physical (mortal) body in a previous estate.
Yes, just as salvation is given as a consequence for having faith.
Gifts don't require the recipient to earn it.
So when you get a birthday present, you don't pick it up? Do you unwrap it? Do you receive it? By doing so are you earning your gift?
Your argument is simply ludicrous because your so DESPERATE to make mormonism into something it isn't.
But hey, according in you - Christianity demands no righteousness, nor obedience, not even a recognition of God to receive salvation. Because if a person takes ANY FORM of action, it's classified as "earning".
In Mormonisn, many Mormons and leaders taught that it had to be earned, but some Mormons are now in denial. Denying that obedience to Mormonism is required means no one should become a misiionary to convert Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics, charismatics, Nazarenes, etc.
Cherry picked evidence.
It isn't a strawman; it's a truth you reject.
Nope. It's a strawman.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
You must not know what "easy grace" is.

I never said you did. I'm just asking since walking the path is required, if you're earning salvation. Inasmuch as you promote a do-nothing gospel, and obedience required is classified as "earning salvation"?

I think you take them out of context.

But we get salvation by...doing nothing? Because you infer "action" = "earning" even saying the pray to accept Jesus as Savior is "earning" salvation. Or do we not even have to do that?
You're equally as bad as dberrie in misrepresenting your opposition.
Action doesn't equal earning. We can't obey unless Christ lives in us. If we have Christ, we are quickened to follow Him.

Jesus isn't in a box with wrapping paper! Wheh He enters someone's heart, He enters a sinner's heart. That sinner is quickened from spiritual death to a new creation!

No, what does that have to do with anything? Why won't you answer the questions I'm asking you?

Yes, they were GIVEN, as a consequence for having faith. Just as salvation is GIVEN for having faith. Not everyone will receive salvation, will they?

Yes, just as salvation is given as a consequence for having faith.

Jesus died to save sinners. Are you calling resurrection to the telestial kingdom without God (or in Mormonism without the two gods father and son) --- is that salvation? It sounds like punishment ---but it's fiction.


So when you get a birthday present, you don't pick it up? Do you unwrap it? Do you receive it? By doing so are you earning your gift?
Your argument is simply ludicrous because your so DESPERATE to make mormonism into something it isn't.
But hey, according in you - Christianity demands no righteousness, nor obedience, not even a recognition of God to receive salvation. Because if a person takes ANY FORM of action, it's classified as "earning".
I'm not desparate at all. God wins every battle. Christianity doesn't demand what it already has. With the True Christ, Christianity has already won and over the years Christ has accomplished many things!
 

Richard7

Well-known member
Dying on the cross is how Jesus saved us. There was nothing easy about it.




Not one of us ever contradicted that verse.

As for earning, I've quoted yor leaders several times. You apparently think they were wrong.

Did you become an Eagle Scout? You earned the badges. Salavation is a gift, not a competition.

Did your parents give gifts based on obedience, so that one child could outstrip another?



Those bodies were given for obedience in a previous "estate". They weren't given to all of your heavenly father's children, were they?

Resurrection in Mormonism is only for those who earned the privilege of obtaining a physical (mortal) body in a previous estate.

Giffts don't require the recipient to earn it. In Mormonisn, many Mormons and leaders taught that it had to be earned, but some Mormons are now in denial. Denying that obedience to Mormonism is required means no one should become a misiionary to convert Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics, charismatics, Nazarenes, etc.


It isn't a strawman; it's a truth you reject.
Not totally true... he took upon him the sins of the world.... called the atonement.

Jesus Christ “came into the world … to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; that through him all might be saved” (D&C 76:41–42).


Atonement:
What is the Atonement? As used in the scriptures, to atone is to suffer the penalty for sins, thereby removing the effects of sin from the repentant sinner and allowing him or her to be reconciled to God. Jesus Christ was the only one capable of carrying out the Atonement for all mankind.
LDS.org
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Thank you for reiterating the Mormon view that says the atonement was only an opportinity for sinners. Christians believe eternal life is a gift., not merely an opportunity. Sinners have no desire to please God. It's all about what God does for us, not what we do for Him.

Hebrews 11
[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Ezekiel 36:26–27: “I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.”

Opportunties leave the change of heart to sinners but they can't and don't want to change.


John 1:12 teaches that God's will is a new birth.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Not totally true... he took upon him the sins of the world.... called the atonement.

Jesus Christ “came into the world … to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; that through him all might be saved” (D&C 76:41–42).


Atonement:
What is the Atonement? As used in the scriptures, to atone is to suffer the penalty for sins, thereby removing the effects of sin from the repentant sinner and allowing him or her to be reconciled to God. Jesus Christ was the only one capable of carrying out the Atonement for all mankind.
LDS.org
You need to provide a page link where people can read your quotes in context. Not just a general website.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Philippians 1:6
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Who will perform the good work?

1 Corinthians 1:8
Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who will confirm us to the end?

Could you explain for us how that somehow covers up or cancels out the testimony of Jesus Christ--who witnessed all will be judged according to their works--and that for life or damnation?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Is your claim it's God being judged there?

Obviously--it's both God and His servants at work:

Philippians 2:12-13---New American Standard Bible
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to desire and to work for His good pleasure.
 
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