pilgrim
Well-known member
You do not know what capabilities the saints in heaven have.
“That eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him." 1 Cor 2:9
Leaving the Roman Catholic Church
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“That eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath it entered into the heart of man, what things God hath prepared for them that love him." 1 Cor 2:9
RayneBeau
Well-known member
You don't even know your own religion romish - actually your responses sound as if you believe you are a religion unto yourself. When you find that the TRUTH has worked you into a corner again, as it always does, you just respond by making inane accusations and remarks one right after another - what a give away those always are - quite laughable actually!
A new day
Super Member
Exodus 20:4-5
You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them;
Humans are creation. Angels are creation. Everything in the heavens, on the earth, or in the seas is creation. If a person worships anything other than God alone; doesn't matter what it is... that person, angel or thing becomes an idol to the person who is worshiping the person, angel or thing.
And what you quoted is telling ALL of creation to worship God only. Reread the passages again, there is NOTHING in those passages that permit you or even give you an excuse to worship humans, angels or anything in the heavens, on the earth, or in the seas. As soon as a person begins exalting anything, other than God, he or she is practicing idolatry, period. It is giving the glory to other things God created, that rightfully belong to God alone. Only He is worthy of our praise, worship and honor. Nothing else.
From verse 57 to 88, of your rc version, the passages you quoted is telling ALL of creation, to praise and worship God, nothing in any of those passages even hint at excusing worship of other things... All the things listed in those passages, were told to worship God.
Daniel 3:57-59 (New Revised Standard Catholic Version)
“Bless the Lord, all you works of the Lord;
sing praise to him and highly exalt him forever.
God created ALL things, which is His work. The verse is telling ALL creation to bless the Lord, and exalt him. Nothing about you praising creation.
Bless the Lord, you heavens;
sing praise to him and highly exalt him forever.
The above is telling the heavens to praise and exalt the Lord.
Bless the Lord, you angels of the Lord;
sing praise to him and highly exalt him forever.
The above is telling the angels to worship the Lord.
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RayneBeau
Well-known member
Does this parable teach you romish, as a Roman Catholic, of the completeness of the union in Christ?
RayneBeau
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Do you not comprehend that the closeness is the union between the vine and the branch romish, and that each is nothing without the other, and that each is wholly and only for the other?
RayneBeau
Well-known member
Try real hard to focus and understand romish - Without the vine the branch can do nothing!
RayneBeau
Well-known member
Romish, pay close attention now, to know the answer to your quaint question in which you asked . . . "And what?" Here's what romish, . . . . To the vine it owes its right of place in the vineyard, its life and its fruitfulness." Do you understand "and what" now, romish? Does that have any meaning in Roman Catholicism for you?
Well one thing for sure the branch is not the RCC because the vine produces good fruit and maybe that is because of all its false teachings.
RayneBeau
Well-known member
No, romish, the question was answered when it was first posted, but being the Roman Catholic Church's authoritarian that you think you are, you must have missed it, just like you do everything else.
And so, the Lord Jesus says, "Without Me you can do nothing."
Just for your clarification romish, Christ is talking about Himself there - not about you.
RayneBeau
Well-known member
Each day the believer in Christ Jesus, can be pleasing to God romish, only in that which the believer does through the power of Christ dwelling in him. Now, if you have a problem with your sole focus being on HIM alone, then you need to take it up with Him in prayer - you do believe in prayer don't you?
RayneBeau
Well-known member
The daily filling of the life-sap of the Holy Spirit romish, is the believers only power to bring forth fruit. The believer lives in Christ Jesus alone and is for each moment dependent on Him alone.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Why can't I love and worship Christ and be devoted to Mary and the saints? Why is Christian love zero-sum and one dimensional?
That is the question I asked. Your response above is just another way of saying "Because I said so."
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Again, WHY does that entail that Christian LOVE is ZERO SUM? You have no answer for this.
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
And this has WHAT to do with devotion to Mary and the saints?
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
No, I do not understand what, now.
I agree with you when you speak of Christ alone, salvation through Christ alone, etc.
What you aren't explaining is what that has to do with devotion to Mary and the saints.
RayneBeau
Well-known member
If the Word of God doesn't explain to you Jesus' own words in John 15: 4 saying: "Abide in Me" then you are hopelessly obtuse. Whats to explain romish? Abide in Me is not a call for any devotion to "Mary and the saints."
romishpopishorganist
Well-known member
Do you not get it?
I am not arguing with Jesus words about "abiding in Me." I have no dispute with that. I agree, I believe it.
What I do not understand, and what you are not explaining is what "Abide in Me" has to do with devotion to the saints and Mary. Why is devotion to the saints in Mary opposed to the statement "Abide in Me?" When did I suggest that we should abide in the saints and Mary?
Bonnie
Super Member
Sure God does! But humans, even disciples and Jesus' mother, are not gods in any way, shape or form!
So, you quote this, which is fine...but what about all of those prayers some Catholics direct to Mary, praising her, beseeching her for help and even salvation? Like one of diLiguori's prayers to Mary, where he calls her the only hope for sinners?? Where he shamelessly flatters her? (Come to think of it, he does that in a lot of his prayers to her). Why, once he told her (or he may have been quoting another Catholic theologian), that Jesus' blood will be of no effect to someone unless Mary first recommends him to her Son! What blasphemy! And yet, some on here have actually defended diLiguori and what he wrote! Shameful!
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Bonnie
Super Member
This is ridiculous. The prayers I have seen to Mary go far, far beyond just "talking" to her. They plead with
her for help, succor, salvation, faith...things only God can give.
SPOKENWORD
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