Legalism

Common Tater

Active member
Prologue:
AV Ro 3:3-4 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
AV Ja 4:11-12 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of [his] brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

AV Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words:

It's your testimony against GOD's.

Ask me, how I know who is lying then ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Does Isaiah 58 tell us who God is talking to here? Why, yes it does.

"Cry loudly, do not hold back; Raise your voice like a trumpet, And declare to My people their transgression And to the house of Jacob their sins. Isaiah 58:1 NASB

Then you will take delight in the LORD, And I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; And I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, For the mouth of the LORD has spoken." Isaiah 58:14 NASB

He is talking to the nation of Israel. The ones who He gave the Sabbath to as a sign of the covenant between Him and them that was given at Sinai.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Does Isaiah 58 tell us who God is talking to here? Why, yes it does.
"Cry loudly, do not hold back; Raise your voice like a trumpet, And declare to My people their transgression And to the house of Jacob their sins. Isaiah 58:1 NASB
Then you will take delight in the LORD, And I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; And I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, For the mouth of the LORD has spoken." Isaiah 58:14 NASB
He is talking to the nation of Israel. The ones who He gave the Sabbath to as a sign of the covenant between Him and them that was given at Sinai.
AV Ro 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

I can only conclude that you missed Paul's NT point here.

AV Eph 4:11-13 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Do you claim for yourself to be part "of the body of Christ" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Common Tater

Active member
AV Ro 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

I can only conclude that you missed Paul's NT point here.

AV Eph 4:11-13 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Do you claim for yourself to be part "of the body of Christ" ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Yes, I claim to be a part of the body of Christ. I take what Paul said seriously.

But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise. Galatians 3:23-29 NASB

You ought to read the rest of this chapter as well.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Zch 3:10-4:14 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree. 4:1 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep, 2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all [of] gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which [are] upon the top thereof: 3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right [side] of the bowl, and the other upon the left [side] thereof. 4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What [are] these, my lord? 5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This [is] the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. 7 Who [art] thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel [thou shalt become] a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone [thereof with] shoutings, [crying], Grace, grace unto it. 8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. 10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel [with] those seven; they [are] the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth. 11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What [are] these two olive trees upon the right [side] of the candlestick and upon the left [side] thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What [be these] two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden [oil] out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these [be]? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These [are] the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
AV Mt 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
AV Re 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
AV Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
AV Re 3:9-10 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
AV Re 13:6-9 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

What does Jesus know, that many do not ???
Yes, I claim to be a part of the body of Christ. I take what Paul said seriously.
But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise. Galatians 3:23-29 NASB
You ought to read the rest of this chapter as well. {Additional Emphasis by SDAchristian}
You made my point, through Paul's writings. So do you comprehend Paul's allusion in these verses to GOD's Point Of View, then ???

Can you call yourself a Jew, because of Jesus ???

AV Mt 5:22-24 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Would Jesus call you a spiritual Jewish Brother ???

AV Ro 11:13-25 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

I am trying to determine, if it's "ignorant of this mystery" or "because of unbelief" to the doctrine of the single Body(or "a good olive tree") of Christ, the Church, which is it ???

"Yes, I claim to be a part of the body of Christ.", Who is our "the root", supporting us then ???
IOW, Who is our vine(John 15), supporting us ???

AV Mt 7:16-20 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Is GOD a "fruit" inspector ??? Can you inspect "good fruit", and know it from "evil fruit" ???

Was Jesus' "fruit", "good" or "evil" ???

Check Question: After a Gentile is grafted in, are they part of Christ's "a good olive tree" ???

@Buzzard, When the Gentiles were grafted in, then the Gentiles received all the gifts and promises made to the Jews, by GOD.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
You made my point, through Paul's writings. So do you comprehend Paul's allusion in these verses to GOD's Point Of View, then ???

Can you call yourself a Jew, because of Jesus ???
Michael;
Peter gives an explicit warning to us of men of your Ilk,
that twist the words of Paul to fit their own agenda
have you never read ???

2Peter 3:15
speaking specifically about the events to transpire, and all the
😈 "Falses Wanna be Jews" :devilish:
that are to come deceiving those of deluted minds such as you

"............ our beloved brother Paul also
according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles,
speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."

Micheal;
John writes this 30 - 40 years after Paul and Peter penned their warning
of men such as the Elders of the SDA Church

Rev. 2:9
I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews,
and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.



So who is correct Micheal ???
You and the Gods of the SDA Gentile Ministers of Satan
Wanna be Teachers of the Law
---- or -------
John the Apostle ???????
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV 2Pt 2:1-22 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not. 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned [them] with an overthrow, making [them] an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed [his] righteous soul from day to day with [their] unlawful deeds; ) 9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous [are they], selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, [as] they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots [they are] and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18 For when they speak great swelling [words] of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, [through much] wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Michael;
Peter gives an explicit warning to us of men of your Ilk,
that twist the words of Paul to fit their own agenda
have you never read ???
2Peter 3:15
speaking specifically about the events to transpire, and all the
😈 "Falses Wanna be Jews" :devilish:
that are to come deceiving those of deluted minds such as you
"............ our beloved brother Paul also
according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles,
speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction."
Micheal;
John writes this 30 - 40 years after Paul and Peter penned their warning
of men such as the Elders of the SDA Church
Rev. 2:9
I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews,
and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

So who is correct Micheal ???
You and the Gods of the SDA Gentile Ministers of Satan
Wanna be Teachers of the Law
---- or -------
John the Apostle ???????
You are entitled to give your opinion in open forum, here at CARM.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
You are entitled to give your opinion in open forum, here at CARM.

Yours in Christ, Michael
well Micheal;
answer the Question;

So who is correct Micheal ???
You and the Gods of the SDA Gentile Ministers of Satan
Wanna be Teachers of the Law
---- or -------
John the Apostle ???????

do as Peter says
to not do so is to reject them he sent and to do so is to deny Christ

those that deny Christ, he will deny them to the Angels,


Why are you so reluctant to give the Answer Peter says you are always
to be able and willing to give
????
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
well Micheal;
answer the Question;
So who is correct Micheal ???
You and the Gods of the SDA Gentile Ministers of Satan
Wanna be Teachers of the Law
---- or -------
John the Apostle ???????
do as Peter says
to not do so is to reject them he sent and to do so is to deny Christ
those that deny Christ, he will deny them to the Angels,
Why are you so reluctant to give the Answer Peter says you are always
to be able and willing to give
????
AV Lk 6:46-47 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Jesus is correct.

Have the discussion with Jesus then.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
AV Lk 6:46-47 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

Jesus is correct.

Have the discussion with Jesus then.

Yours in Christ, Michael
Absolutyly; without a doubt
then if you believe the "Oracles of Christ"
why do you not obey him ????

Thy shall NOT STEAL Michael
why do you claim for yourself and your "Gods" that which was Specifically committed to the

Romans 3:1

What advantage then hath the Jew?
or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

That is written to warn the Gentiles - The Church of the Roman Empire
The Jew / Circumcision refers to a Specific Peoples and a Specific Tribe and family of the Levites
and especially to the Sons of Aaron

You are a Gentile, Micheal
Your are not a Jew in any size, shape nor fashion

Rev. 2:9
I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews,
and are not, but are
the synagogue of Satan.


edit personal comments
 
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Icyspark

Active member
Absolutyly; without a doubt
then if you believe the "Oracles of Christ"
why do you not obey him ????

Thy shall NOT STEAL Michael
why do you claim for yourself and your "Gods" that which was Specifically committed to the

Romans 3:1

What advantage then hath the Jew?
or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

That is written to warn the Gentiles - The Church of the Roman Empire
The Jew / Circumcision refers to a Specific Peoples and a Specific Tribe and family of the Levites
and especially to the Sons of Aaron

You are a Gentile, Micheal
Your are not a Jew in any size, shape nor fashion

Rev. 2:9
I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews,
and are not, but are
the synagogue of Satan.


all you are is a 😈 "Wanna-Be" :devilish: from the seed of the Dragon


Hi Buzzard,

Are you part of the Old covenant or the New?

God bless!
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Hi Buzzard,

Are you part of the Old covenant or the New?

God bless!
Neither one;
I was born free, never a servant of man nor councils of men
nor sold into Bondage by my Parents, nor by my Brethren

if you were 1/2 as knowledgeable as you think you are;
you would know what that means

and this also
The Words of the Wise Man

Proverbs 6:1
My son, if thou be surety for thy friend,
if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

2 Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth,
thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.

3 Do this now, my son, and deliver thyself,
when thou art come into the hand of thy friend; go,
humble thyself, and make sure thy friend.

4 Give not sleep to thine eyes,
nor slumber to thine eyelids.

5 Deliver thyself as a roe from the hand of the hunter,
and as a bird from the hand of the fowler.
 
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Icyspark

Active member
Neither one;
I was born free, never a servant of man nor councils of men
nor sold into Bondage by my Parents, nor by my Brethren

if you were 1/2 as knowledgeable as you think you are;
you would know what that means

and this also
The Words of the Wise Man

Proverbs 6:1
My son, if thou be surety for thy friend,
if thou hast stricken thy hand with a stranger,

2 Thou art snared with the words of thy mouth,
thou art taken with the words of thy mouth.

3 Do this now, my son, and deliver thyself,
when thou art come into the hand of thy friend; go,
humble thyself, and make sure thy friend.

4 Give not sleep to thine eyes,
nor slumber to thine eyelids.

5 Deliver thyself as a roe from the hand of the hunter,
and as a bird from the hand of the fowler.

Hi Buzzard,

Have you read Romans 11:11-24?

Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

Gentiles were cut out of a tree which is "wild by nature" and are grafted into Israel's tree. It's "their own olive tree!" The new covenant is for "the people of Israel" and "the people of Judah." Gentiles become part of this new covenant by being grafted into Israel's tree. Furthermore, Paul says, "a person is a Jew who is one inwardly." For you to assert to Michael that, "Your are not a Jew in any size, shape nor fashion" is incorrect.

I pray this helps.
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ro 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.
Absolutyly; without a doubt
then if you believe the "Oracles of Christ"
why do you not obey him ????
Thy shall NOT STEAL Michael
why do you claim for yourself and your "Gods" that which was Specifically committed to the
Romans 3:1

What advantage then hath the Jew?
or what profit is there of circumcision?
2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
That is written to warn the Gentiles - The Church of the Roman Empire
The Jew / Circumcision refers to a Specific Peoples and a Specific Tribe and family of the Levites
and especially to the Sons of Aaron
You are a Gentile, Micheal
Your are not a Jew in any size, shape nor fashion
Rev. 2:9
I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews,
and are not, but are
the synagogue of Satan.

all you are is a 😈 "Wanna-Be" :devilish: from the seed of the Dragon
You are entitled to share your opinion within the rules for apologetic discussion at CARM.

You forgot to list this verse as well ...

AV Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

AV Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Is there a difference in your point of view with a physical flesh Jew and a spiritual heart Jew ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

pythons

Active member
Jesus' custom was to observe all Jewish religious practices....
...Do SDA's observe the celebration of the cleansing of the temple?
...Like Jesus did?

Something tells me that Rosh Hashanah ISN'T on the SDA religious calendar.
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Prologue:
AV Ro 2:29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

You are entitled to share your opinion within the rules for apologetic discussion at CARM.

You forgot to list this verse as well ...

AV Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.



Yours in Christ, Michael
No, Micheal;
I did not forget that verse
but it appears you did,
and also the words of John; A True Apostle

Rev.2:1
Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write;
These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand,
who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience,
and how thou canst not bear them which 😈 are evil: 😈
and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles,
and are not, and hast found them
liars:

A liar is a Child of the Devil,
as John also says;

".... I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews,
Liars they are, fo shore
and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

seems like those "SDA Wanna - Be Jews" are those that will be the instigators of the Tribulation to come

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer:
behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison,
that ye may be tried;
and ye shall have tribulation ten days:
be thou faithful unto death,
and I will give thee a crown of life.


Micheal;
A Child of the Devil always does the deeds of the Devil
and speaks the same

" And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;
and he had two horns like a lamb,
---- But ------
and he spake as a dragon."

looks like a Jew, talks like a Jew, says he is a Jew
-----------------------But -------------------
lies like the Devil and does the works of his Father the Devil
 

Buzzard

Well-known member
Hi Buzzard,

Have you read Romans 11:11-24?
many times;
appears you have also;
but reading thru the Glasses of your teachers

Luke 6:39
Can the blind lead the blind?
Will they not both fall into a pit?
40
The student is not above the teacher,
but everyone who is fully trained

will be like their teacher.

The Elect of the Father
Matt.24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible,

they shall deceive the very elect.
---
What Nation / Peoples were Scattered to the 4 Winds of Heaven
to the
4 Corners of the Earth


31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together
his elect from the four winds,
from one end of heaven to the other
.

Appears you over look what Paul says about the Elect of God
and who they are
Romans 11:1 -7
I say then, Hath God cast away his people?
God forbid.
For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham,
of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias?
how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets,
and digged down thine altars;
and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him?
I have reserved to myself seven thousand men,
who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works:
otherwise grace is no more grace.
But if it be of works, then it is no more grace:
otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for;
but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Icyspark;
Paul was no "Gentile Wanna-Be Jew"
 

Common Tater

Active member

Prologue:
AV Zch 3:10-4:14 In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree. 4:1 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep, 2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all [of] gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which [are] upon the top thereof: 3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right [side] of the bowl, and the other upon the left [side] thereof. 4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What [are] these, my lord? 5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This [is] the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts. 7 Who [art] thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel [thou shalt become] a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone [thereof with] shoutings, [crying], Grace, grace unto it. 8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. 10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel [with] those seven; they [are] the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth. 11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What [are] these two olive trees upon the right [side] of the candlestick and upon the left [side] thereof? 12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What [be these] two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden [oil] out of themselves? 13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these [be]? And I said, No, my lord. 14 Then said he, These [are] the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
AV Mt 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
AV Re 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
AV Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
AV Re 3:9-10 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. 10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
AV Re 13:6-9 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

What does Jesus know, that many do not ???

You made my point, through Paul's writings. So do you comprehend Paul's allusion in these verses to GOD's Point Of View, then ???

Can you call yourself a Jew, because of Jesus ???

AV Mt 5:22-24 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Would Jesus call you a spiritual Jewish Brother ???

AV Ro 11:13-25 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

I am trying to determine, if it's "ignorant of this mystery" or "because of unbelief" to the doctrine of the single Body(or "a good olive tree") of Christ, the Church, which is it ???

"Yes, I claim to be a part of the body of Christ.", Who is our "the root", supporting us then ???
IOW, Who is our vine(John 15), supporting us ???

AV Mt 7:16-20 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Is GOD a "fruit" inspector ??? Can you inspect "good fruit", and know it from "evil fruit" ???

Was Jesus' "fruit", "good" or "evil" ???

Check Question: After a Gentile is grafted in, are they part of Christ's "a good olive tree" ???

@Buzzard, When the Gentiles were grafted in, then the Gentiles received all the gifts and promises made to the Jews, by GOD.

Yours in Christ, Michael
I do not call myself a Jew because of Jesus. I, a Gentile, have been grafted into the tree which is the people of God, the Body of Christ. Jews were branches of that tree, not the tree itself, not the root. I, like any Jew that believes in Christ, am a branch. The tree, the root does not see me as either Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female. It sees no distinction. I am now part of the body of Christ, an heir to the promise made to Abraham. That promise, that covenant was unconditional, unlike the Sinaitic Covenant between God and the Children of Israel, which was conditional upon their behavior.
 

Icyspark

Active member
many times;
appears you have also;
but reading thru the Glasses of your teachers

Luke 6:39
Can the blind lead the blind?
Will they not both fall into a pit?
40
The student is not above the teacher,
but everyone who is fully trained

will be like their teacher.

The Elect of the Father
Matt.24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible,

they shall deceive the very elect.
---
What Nation / Peoples were Scattered to the 4 Winds of Heaven
to the
4 Corners of the Earth


31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together
his elect from the four winds,
from one end of heaven to the other
.

Appears you over look what Paul says about the Elect of God
and who they are
Romans 11:1 -7
I say then, Hath God cast away his people?
God forbid.
For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham,
of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias?
how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets,
and digged down thine altars;
and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him?
I have reserved to myself seven thousand men,
who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works:
otherwise grace is no more grace.
But if it be of works, then it is no more grace:
otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for;
but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Icyspark;
Paul was no "Gentile Wanna-Be Jew"


Hi Buzzard,

Nothing you posted addresses anything I posted. It's just obfuscation. Why not try addressing what was said?

God bless!
 

Icyspark

Active member
I do not call myself a Jew because of Jesus. I, a Gentile, have been grafted into the tree which is the people of God, the Body of Christ. Jews were branches of that tree, not the tree itself, not the root. I, like any Jew that believes in Christ, am a branch. The tree, the root does not see me as either Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female. It sees no distinction. I am now part of the body of Christ, an heir to the promise made to Abraham. That promise, that covenant was unconditional, unlike the Sinaitic Covenant between God and the Children of Israel, which was conditional upon their behavior.

Hi Common Tater,

Paul says it's Israel's tree.

God bless!
 

SDAchristian

Well-known member
Jesus' custom was to observe all Jewish religious practices....
...Do SDA's observe the celebration of the cleansing of the temple?
...Like Jesus did?
Something tells me that Rosh Hashanah ISN'T on the SDA religious calendar.
AV Mt 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Jesus was the Savior of Both Covenants, and fulfilled the righteousness requirements of both for those living under them.

"the celebration of the cleansing of the temple", Which "celebration" by name are you referring to ???

AV Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

One of the most misunderstood verses in the Bible, because of an improper understanding of OT type("shadow of things") to NT anti-type("the body [is] of Christ") fulfillment.

"Something tells me that Rosh Hashanah ISN'T on the SDA religious calendar.", Nope.

So what you think the anti-type of the Jewish new year is ???

"Jesus' custom was to observe all Jewish religious practices....", I don't think so. Especially sabbath man made rules.

Yours in Christ, Michael
 
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