Legally but not Spiritually

mica

Well-known member

mica

Well-known member
I don't know. I don't listen to everything the pope says or read everything he writes. Is there a particular percentage that would be adequate?
yes, a high percentage. What is your definition of repentance?

I saw no mention of the gospel, tho he did use the words 'the gospel'.

It was a jumbled mess of words to me. but then, he was addressing catholics and it is what they're used to hearing.

he did bring up Mary -
" May Mary Most Holy help us to be docile to the action of the Holy Spirit."

he evidently believes people change their own hearts and lives -

"Jesus, on the contrary, invites us to change our heart, to make a radical about-face on the path of our lives,"
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
yes, a high percentage. What is your definition of repentance?

I saw no mention of the gospel, tho he did use the words 'the gospel'.

It was a jumbled mess of words to me. but then, he was addressing catholics and it is what they're used to hearing.

he did bring up Mary -
" May Mary Most Holy help us to be docile to the action of the Holy Spirit."

he evidently believes people change their own hearts and lives -

"Jesus, on the contrary, invites us to change our heart, to make a radical about-face on the path of our lives,"
Okay, so if we took all the words of Jesus in the NT, would we expect a high percentage of what he says to be about repentance? 80% or something like that?
 

organgrinder

Well-known member
And if they are correct in their interpretation, then it is just the pope's private opinion. However, I'd like to see some clarity from the Vatican so hopefully some will be forthcoming. My reason for thinking he is not saying "civil unions" is (a) he doesn't use the specific term (whereas if he meant it, why not just say that?) and (b) it doesn't fit the rest of the context very well.
And if they are correct-- and I believe they are-- then the pope is confusing many folks and not taking the 1 Thessalonians scripture scripture to heart about avoiding the appearance of evil. Maybe he never read it-- or forgot it. Here it is:


Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.


(1 Thessalonians 5:16-23 NKJV)
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
And if they are correct-- and I believe they are-- then the pope is confusing many folks and not taking the 1 Thessalonians scripture scripture to heart about avoiding the appearance of evil. Maybe he never read it-- or forgot it. Here it is:


Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.


(1 Thessalonians 5:16-23 NKJV)
Clear articulation of theology is not his strong point. Of course, it doesn't help that it's a derivative clip. It's kind of like if I said in an interview:

"Divorce is not an ideal that God wants; He clearly made men and women in marriage to be united for life. Now, there can be cases of abuse in marriage and, for this reason, it may be necessary to separate. Sometimes these kinds of incidents come up and we should respect them. Still, it would be better if we tried, as a society, to do our best to foster marriages and discourage divorce, even changing laws to make it more difficult."

And all the interviewer excised and used was:
"Now, there can be cases of abuse in marriage and, for this reason, it may be necessary to separate. Sometimes these kinds of incidents come up and we should respect them."

It gives a completely different impression - newspaper headlines the next morning: "Pope Feles says we should respect divorcees as Christians! Church goes in new direction!" This is precisely what was done in this interview.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
...
"Divorce is not an ideal that God wants; He clearly made men and women in marriage to be united for life. Now, there can be cases of abuse in marriage and, for this reason, it may be necessary to separate....
Not one word from scripture, Jesus, or his apostles about homosexual civil union.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
At the judgment, will we be judged by what God declared in his inspired word, or will we be judged by Christians' uninspired word?
How is that relevant to the point being made? Your point was outrage that Pope Francis didn't quote the Bible or talk about repentance in two or three sentences extracted from a larger interview.
 

mica

Well-known member
You do realise that Christians can speak publicly without constantly quoting scripture and mentioning Jesus?
sure they can. In this case we are talking about the one you claim to be one of your popes - leader of 'the whole 'Church'' speaking about sin.

your post supports what I believe, that there's very little in or about catholicism that has anything to do with Christianity.

it sounds like you have a problem with a believer speaking out publicly about scripture and Jesus. Maybe it's your popes who should stop speaking publicly on these topics, since they don't know His truth about them.
 

jonathan_hili

Well-known member
sure they can. In this case we are talking about the one you claim to be one of your popes - leader of 'the whole 'Church'' speaking about sin.
But he's not speaking about sin. In the two-three sentences we've seen, he's speaking about not treating people with same-sex attraction as if they're monsters and alienating them.
your post supports what I believe, that there's very little in or about catholicism that has anything to do with Christianity.
Maybe to a particular brand of Christianity that is fundamentalist and unable to apply complexity to religion and the world.
it sounds like you have a problem with a believer speaking out publicly about scripture and Jesus. Maybe it's your popes who should stop speaking publicly on these topics, since they don't know His truth about them.
Not at all. I've even linked some of Francis's sermons where he speaks about sin and the need for repentance. And yet everyone is up in arms because he utters a few sentences and doesn't mention it.

By the way, I didn't notice anything about and repentance from you in this post. For shame as a Christian!
 
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