Lessons For Which I Am Thankful!

treeplanter

Active member
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

Seems like a perfect occasion on which to express gratitude to my Christian brothers for the valuable lessons that they have taught me over the holiday this year


Thank you, Stiggy Wiggy, for confirming what I have long contended:
God didn't create us - we created Him!

In the thread titled: 'How CARM'S Discussion Board is beneficial to a certain type of atheist as well as society in general'
Stiggy, in post #123, stated that:
"God is good no matter what He does because God IS good no matter what He does"

Then, in post #143, Stiggy asserted that:
"God did not create evil" because "evil doesn't exist until it's chosen"

Of course, it goes without saying that if evil didn't exist until we chose it then nor did good {i.e. God} exist until we chose it!
The one cannot exist without the other - a truism that Stiggy, himself, has long championed

Thanks for the crystallization, Stigs!


I'd like also to thank SteveB
I'm forever thankful to Steve for setting me straight on the nature of observation
Stupid me, I was always under the impression that an observation did not necessarily entail any sort of demand

In the thread titled: 'who here can build a fence?'
Steve, in post #124, had this to say:
"Repent and believe the gospel of the Kingdom! Repentance is the word for changing your mind and agreeing with God's Word on all things that he's saying matters. To believe is to place your trust in the written word of God"

Then, when I asserted, in response to Steve's admission:
"You do NOT think for yourself!"
Steve, in post #186, responded with:
"Well, if this is the case, then you're demanding I think according to what you want me to think, and that's DEFINITELY NOT thinking for myself"

Then, to drive his point home, Steve declared in post #202 that:
"You spent an entire post telling me that I am not thinking for myself. This makes it really clear that unless I think like you, no matter what, under no circumstances could I have been thinking for myself"

Gracias, Steve! Without you I would have never known that an observation that a young child does not dress himself is the same as a demand that the child dress like me!!


And, finally, I'd like to thank Furion aka James the Lesser

In the thread titled: 'When it comes to pain, love, joy, loneliness, and fear...':
I made the claim that human lives are of an infinitely greater import than are the lives of rats, pigs, dogs, and all other creatures of earth

Jimmy countered in post #16:
"Anyone who thinks humans are "infinitely greater" than other creatures. The height of arrogance in a material universe"

Many thanks to you, lesser fella
Here I was thinking, like an idiot, that because God created us in His own image

{Genesis 1:27
"So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them"}

this must mean that we are valued above and beyond all other creatures...

And, like a dolt, I was laboring under the impression that because Jesus Christ reiterated our favored status

{Matthew 6:26
"Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?"}

this must mean that we ARE of greater import than the animals of earth...

Thanks, Furion, for setting me straight
Now that I know that agreeing with God is arrogance, I won't do it again
 
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docphin5

Active member
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

Seems like a perfect occasion on which to express gratitude to my Christian brothers for the valuable lessons that they have taught me over the holiday this year


Thank you, Stiggy Wiggy, for confirming what I have long contended:
God didn't create us - we created Him!

In the thread titled: 'How CARM'S Discussion Board is beneficial to a certain type of atheist as well as society in general'
Stiggy, in post #123, stated that:
"God is good no matter what He does because God IS good no matter what He does"

Then, in post #143, Stiggy asserted that:
"God did not create evil" because "evil doesn't exist until it's chosen"

Of course, it goes without saying that if evil didn't exist until we chose it then nor did good {i.e. God} exist until we chose it!
The one cannot exist without the other - a truism that Stiggy, himself, has long championed

Thanks for the crystallization, Stigs!


I'd like also to thank SteveB
I'm forever thankful to Steve for setting me straight on the nature of observation
Stupid me, I was always under the impression that an observation did not necessarily entail any sort of demand

In the thread titled: 'who here can build a fence?'
Steve, in post #124, had this to say:
"Repent and believe the gospel of the Kingdom! Repentance is the word for changing your mind and agreeing with God's Word on all things that he's saying matters. To believe is to place your trust in the written word of God"

Then, when I asserted, in response to Steve's admission:
"You do NOT think for yourself!"
Steve, in post #186, responded with:
"Well, if this is the case, then you're demanding I think according to what you want me to think, and that's DEFINITELY NOT thinking for myself"

Then, to drive his point home, Steve declared in post #202 that:
"You spent an entire post telling me that I am not thinking for myself. This makes it really clear that unless I think like you, no matter what, under no circumstances could I have been thinking for myself"

Gracias, Steve! Without you I would have never known that an observation that a young child does not dress himself is the same as a demand that the child dress like me!!


And, finally, I'd like to thank Furion aka James the Lesser

In the thread titled: 'When it comes to pain, love, joy, loneliness, and fear...':
I made the claim that human lives are of an infinitely greater import than are the lives of rats, pigs, dogs, and all other creatures of earth

Jimmy countered in post #16:
"Anyone who thinks humans are "infinitely greater" than other creatures. The height of arrogance in a material universe"

Many thanks to you, lesser fella
Here I was thinking, like an idiot, that because God created us in His own image

{Genesis 1:27
"So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them"}

this must mean that we are valued above and beyond all other creatures...

And, like a dolt, I was laboring under the impression that because Jesus Christ reiterated our favored status

{Matthew 6:26
"Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they?"}

this must mean that we ARE of greater import than the animals of earth...

Thanks, Furion, for setting me straight
Now that I know that agreeing with God is arrogance, I won't do it again
I am not defending the posters that you mentioned but there are inconsistencies on the other side of the fence, too.

1) Just recently an a-theist agreed that everything in the cosmos has a cause then concluded that there is no way there could be a Cause of causes, namely, a Creator of our universe.

2) A-theists are always trying to point out how immoral YHWH Elohim is (which is arguably a good point) but then the same a-theist will turn around and say that there is no objective morality, for it is all subjective to our life and our circumstances. It begs the question how can the a-theist condemn YHWH for drowning babies when the morality of it depends upon YHWH's life and situation, not ours? Maybe he had his reasons, just like an a-theist has his reasons for doing what he does. Stalin, Mao, killed how many millions for their reasons.

For the record I believe in a transcendent, objective morality where morality is NOT relative to our lives and or our situations. Which is why I can condemn YHWH's jealousy, wrath, and genocidal tendencies and also reject a-theism's moral relativity argument.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too!
 

treeplanter

Active member
I am not defending the posters that you mentioned but there are inconsistencies on the other side of the fence, too.

1) Just recently an a-theist agreed that everything in the cosmos has a cause then concluded that there is no way there could be a Cause of causes, namely, a Creator of our universe.

2) A-theists are always trying to point out how immoral YHWH Elohim is (which is arguably a good point) but then the same a-theist will turn around and say that there is no objective morality, for it is all subjective to our life and our circumstances. It begs the question how can the a-theist condemn YHWH for drowning babies when the morality of it depends upon YHWH's life and situation, not ours? Maybe he had his reasons, just like an a-theist has his reasons for doing what he does. Stalin, Mao, killed how many millions for their reasons.

For the record I believe in a transcendent, objective morality where morality is NOT relative to our lives and or our situations. Which is why I can condemn YHWH's jealousy, wrath, and genocidal tendencies and also reject a-theism's moral relativity argument.

Happy Thanksgiving to you too!
You're right - it runs both ways

Inconsistencies and contradictions are not exclusive to the Christian posters
Thanks for setting the record straight
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
1) Just recently an a-theist agreed that everything in the cosmos has a cause then concluded that there is no way there could be a Cause of causes, namely, a Creator of our universe.
Link please. Who said that, and where?
 

Ficciones

Active member
1) Just recently an a-theist agreed that everything in the cosmos has a cause then concluded that there is no way there could be a Cause of causes, namely, a Creator of our universe.

Is this how badly you've managed to misinterpret my argument about being and nature?
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
Thank you, Stiggy Wiggy, for confirming what I have long contended:
God didn't create us - we created Him!

Hey, stiggy wiggy here. Sounds like Stiggy Wiggy is an idiot.

In the thread titled: 'How CARM'S Discussion Board is beneficial to a certain type of atheist as well as society in general'
Stiggy, in post #123, stated that:
"God is good no matter what He does because God IS good no matter what He does"

Correct. He is Love.

Then, in post #143, Stiggy asserted that:
"God did not create evil" because "evil doesn't exist until it's chosen"

Correct. Theft, for example, doesn't exist "out there." Something must first be stolen. Even the thought to steal must first be conceived.

Of course, it goes without saying that if evil didn't exist until we chose it then nor did good {i.e. God} exist until we chose it!

Incorrect. Obviously God had to exist BEFORE He created free will agents who might choose to commit an evil act.

Thanks for the crystallization, Stigs!

Glad to oblige.
 

treeplanter

Active member
Hey, stiggy wiggy here. Sounds like Stiggy Wiggy is an idiot.



Correct. He is Love.



Correct. Theft, for example, doesn't exist "out there." Something must first be stolen. Even the thought to steal must first be conceived.



Incorrect. Obviously God had to exist BEFORE He created free will agents who might choose to commit an evil act.



Glad to oblige.
It's true, theft, prior to the act itself, does not exist "out there", but the OPTION {or CHOICE} as to whether or not to engage in theft IS "out there"!

God gave to us two options {choices} where possession of another person's property is concerned
1. To steal
2. Not to steal

And, if God, as you claim, IS good and everything that He does/creates/provides IS, by definition, good - then the option/choice to steal is as good as the option/choice not to steal!!


Stiggy, one of the very few things that you have been consistent about is that good cannot exist without evil
That we cannot know joy were it not for our knowledge of suffering

That there is no basis upon which to judge something right unless there is a wrong

Don't throw it away now...
You'll only come to regret it later

Just admit that you screwed up and take your lumps - what purpose is served by digging yourself into an even deeper hole?
 
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