Let me know when you are willing to discuss Gods innate attributes

You just admitted that the ability to "bring forth" is a quality.

So my question is very simple...

Is the ability to “bring forth” a quality of Divinity?

If you say Yes...

That means each of the three Persons in the Godhead have the ability to "bring forth".

Correct?

All of God is Omnipotent. That includes The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

How many times have I said that? Do you really think I would deny that I included "bring forth"? as a particular facet of Omnipotence.

Now, "spring" your "trap".....
 
All of God is Omnipotent. That includes The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

How many times have I said that? Do you really think I would deny that I included "bring forth"? as a particular facet of Omnipotence.

1) Does God the Father have the ability to generate/beget ("bring forth")? (I expect you will say Yes.)

2) Does God the Son have the ability to generate/beget ("bring forth")? (I am not sure what you will say.)

3) Does God the Holy Spirit have the ability to generate/beget ("bring forth")? (I am not sure what you will say.)

I ask because you had previously said...

Qualities of Divinity are all shared among the Trinity.
 
1) Does God the Father have the ability to generate/beget ("bring forth")? (I expect you will say Yes.)

2) Does God the Son have the ability to generate/beget ("bring forth")? (I am not sure what you will say.)

3) Does God the Holy Spirit have the ability to generate/beget ("bring forth")? (I am not sure what you will say.)

Yes. Context below.

2. Scriptural references.....

Life.
Joh 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Death.

Mat 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

3. Scriptural references.....

Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Joh 16:15 All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
 
Assuming “to beget” specifically means “to generate”...

1) Is THE ABILITY to generate/beget an attribute?
My Lord says," From God I proceeded ". It then follows ,"Procession of the Logos/Word in God is rightly called Generation and the Word Himself proceeding is properly called begotten/generated and Son.

Presentist in Judeo Christian Logos Theology, in ancient primitive times, the 4th century Latin doctor of Hippo elucidates when he says" " Logos/Word and Son express the same for the Son's Nativity which is His Personal property is signified by different names which are attributed to the Son to express His Perfection ( ie numerical Equality(, in various ways.

To show that He is of the same Nature as the Father, He is called the Son; to show that He is Co- Eternal, He is called the Splendor, to show that He is altogether Like , He is called the Image; to show that He is Begotten Immaterially , He is called the Word. All these truths cannot be expressed by only one name".

It is Biblically retarded to assert," God thought,, or the idea of a son was in God mind and plans gestating until utterance of being in time. The infinite Divine Intellect is likewise Substantial , and in no way distinct therefrom really the Divine Essence itself. . It is even more Biblical retarded to assert," The Son preexisted in God mind( whatever that even means). God is nowise contained in a subject, neither is He of accidents. Hence God Word must not only be the idea of God, but the Word must need be God Himself.

To Be God and To Understand are one and the same. It then follows when anti trinitarians insist the son is created from God mind or plan, having His temporal existence by utterance, Orthodoxy still says:

" Thy Today is Eternity. Therefore didst Thou Begat the Co- Eternal to whom didst Thou saidith, This Day have I Begotten Thee".

God own Logos/Word is not merely idea or utterance, but rather likewise substantial, and thus the infinite Divine Intellect ,is in no way distinct therefrom really the Divine Essence itself.

Lastly ," Divine attributes are too likewise Substantial and not accidental faculties/properties/ qualities, as it is in temporal corporal and crated things such as ourselves, but really identical with God Essence".

You do know that you completely refute yourself right? YaChristian you are clearly arguing against your own intelligibility, most certainly not mine.


......... Alan
 
You just admitted that the ability to "bring forth" is a quality.

So my question is very simple...

Is the ability to “bring forth” a quality of Divinity?

If you say Yes...

That means each of the three Persons in the Godhead have the ability to "bring forth".

Correct?
I answer that every Divine Person by Himself is God and Lord, thus each possess the ability to generate by reason of God Supreme Simplicity. Nevertheless, scriptures themselves appropriates Unity to the Father as Begetter , Equality to the Son as Begotten , and Union to the Holy Spirit as Proceeding, subsisting Numerically in the same Nature as has the Principle /God the Father.


2: The Son's going forth from the Father is by mode of the Interior Procession whereby the Word emerges from the heart (ie Bosom), and remains therein. Hence this going forth in God is only by the distinction of the Relations, NOT by any kind of Essential separation.

Presentist , The Father and the Son are relatively OPPOSED( distinct Persons) , but not Essentially two different beings/gods.


...... Alan


.
 
Thanks, I don't know where this conversation started either, which is why I like to ask (though I have read through the thread). In theology, "paternity" is not an attribute, it is a relation. More importantly, Chalcedon doesn't speak of "attributes" although it does make abundantly clear that Jesus was both God and man, giving up/setting aside nothing of His "Godness" to become man and yet becoming wholly man.

TheLayman
Oneness anti trinitarians love to throw around a relationship as the bases of distinctions, as if the ancient Trinitarians did not already start from that clearly scriptural premise.

Whenever I hear anti Trinitarians strawman arguments, I can immediately hear ancient trinitarian theologians say," We already know and that is not a real argument against this name Trinity. Please come back with a better story if you plan on refuting Orthodoxy".

....... Alan
 
Back
Top