Likely Presidential election result

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
That isn't for me to say. What I said is that if your country decides to "burn" your Constitution and start afresh, that's no big deal. Plenty of countries do that. Plenty more manage perfectly well with no Constitution at all.
Why are you ashamed of telling us what country you are from?
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Would you?

Pro-abortionism is grounded in lies.
Yes I recognise the truth, and no, those who support abortion rights are not grounded in lies. Abortion rights, which are better discussed on the board set up for the purpose (you know, its where you get your backside handed to you several times a day.) are grounded in a view of morality that differs from yours. As it happens, it's a majority view, which doesn't make it right, or wrong, but does mean it is likely to prevail. Your illiterate and frankly pathetic challenges to the contrary are in vain.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Here is some truth for you. Pennsylvania belongs to Trump. You might check to see if you can return that champagne.
You are living in a dream world. Sorry, but that's just delusional thinking. Get some coffee and do some actual fact-checking.
 

Thistle

Well-known member
You are living in a dream world.
Apparently, you are not familiar with the legal situation. But to your question, no.
Sorry, but that's just delusional thinking.
I'm sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about. I guess you believed the fake news, didn't you.
Get some coffee and do some actual fact-checking.
Well, I have the facts and apparently you don't. Pennsylvania Act 77 passed in 2019 absolutely requires that all Pennsylvanians can vote by mail but absolutely requires that all ballots be received on election day by 8:00 pm. Furthermore the sections of Act 77 are nonseverable which would disqualify all mail in ballots leaving only election day votes. "If any provision of this act or it's application to any person or circumstance is held invalid, the remaining provisions or applications of this act are void." Guess what the Pennsylvania Supreme Court did? Yes, they voided the entire act. I'm guessing you believed the fake news New York Times, that said the US Supreme Court ruled on this, didn't you? Well, I have bad news for you. The New York Times lied to you, as they are so frequently want to do. If the PA Supreme's declared the 77 unconstitutional they would have been golden, but they changed the law which voided it. Well the US Supremes didn't grant the request to have the review expedited because they got it on October 28th. In fact the Supremes promised to review the PA Court decision. That means all those mail in votes, go away in PA. So I'd recommend you stop reading the fake news New York Times.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Apparently, you are not familiar with the legal situation. But to your question, no.

I'm sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about. I guess you believed the fake news, didn't you.

Well, I have the facts and apparently you don't. Pennsylvania Act 77 passed in 2019 absolutely requires that all Pennsylvanians can vote by mail but absolutely requires that all ballots be received on election day by 8:00 pm. Furthermore the sections of Act 77 are nonseverable which would disqualify all mail in ballots leaving only election day votes. "If any provision of this act or it's application to any person or circumstance is held invalid, the remaining provisions or applications of this act are void." Guess what the Pennsylvania Supreme Court did? Yes, they voided the entire act. I'm guessing you believed the fake news New York Times, that said the US Supreme Court ruled on this, didn't you? Well, I have bad news for you. The New York Times lied to you, as they are so frequently want to do. If the PA Supreme's declared the 77 unconstitutional they would have been golden, but they changed the law which voided it. Well the US Supremes didn't grant the request to have the review expedited because they got it on October 28th. In fact the Supremes promised to review the PA Court decision. That means all those mail in votes, go away in PA. So I'd recommend you stop reading the fake news New York Times.
It looks like your pipedream is being overtaken by events, which is just as well. I would hope that in the cool light of dawn you would be ashamed of what you are advocating, even gloating over here, a naked power grab worthy of a Mugabe or an Assad. All pretence of "ballot stuffing" gone, just a legalistic effort to remove the votes from over half the state's population in order to keep in power a despot who has lost his popularity. What on earth do you think the reaction would be if what you propose here actually happened? What would happen to the stock market, to international relations, to the economy? Is keeping an elderly, gentle man like Biden out of power so vital that you would risk a real civil war.
Not just between the posturing non-entities of the Proud Boys and Antifa, but involving the whole nation? Do you endorse the police officer in Texas who advocates shooting Biden supporters for the treasonous act of voting? Do you want to turn your country into the Lebanon?

Of course it won't happen. After much flummery SCOTUS will disqualify all the postal votes arriving after Nov 3. It will make no difference to the election in Pa or anywhere else. Trump will be led off into the sunset, still chuntering and the business of governing will continue.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
Biden is currently leading in Arizona, Nevada, and Georgia, and it appears Biden should take the lead in Pennsylvania sometime today. If these results hold, and Trump wins Alaska, North Carolina, and Maine District 2, then the final electoral vote count will be:

306 - Biden
232 - Trump


Interestingly, this is identical to the 2016 election result, with the parties reversed:

306 - Trump
232 - Clinton
A significant difference is that Biden will end up having won the popular vote as well.
Imagine Trump's response if he won the popular vote but not the electoral vote?
He's unhinged now, I can only imagine the sh*tstorm that would ensue. Lol.
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
I think I'll stay tuned until the end of the movie. This prognostication is coming from the guys that missed all the polls by seven percentage points. Literally the polls were substantially worse than nothing. Unless you had in mind cheating.
What is your moral position on all the documented lies from the Trump administration?
Does he get a pass for any reason?
 

Hypatia_Alexandria

Active member
What is your moral position on all the documented lies from the Trump administration?
Does he get a pass for any reason?
You are dealing with a cult mentality among many in the USA.

Anything favourable to Trump is correct/right/true and anything critical of Trump is untrue.

Whatever Trump [or his acolytes] tell them is believed unquestioningly and what the MSM or anyone else tells them is Fake News.

As a mere effete European I cannot comprehend why so many still believe and trust Trump. I realise America is a huge country and I recognise that as a result of its size it tends to be rather insular and inward looking but are millions of people really so blind, indoctrinated, and downright stupid?

I know The Daily Show is satirical and I know the following clip contains edited footage but Jordan Klepper's encounters with Trump supporters over the last years shows the total imbecility of a few individuals.

Are those people actually representative of the wider Trump cult?

If so it is terrifying and as we are witnessing it is not going to go away.

Perhaps the most hilarious comment was from a women on another Klepper link at a rally days before the election. She does not want to live under Socialism and universal healthcare but is planning to move to Costa Rica should Biden win. Costa Rica, as Klepper points out to her, has universal healthcare.

You cannot make this stuff up!
 
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bigthinker

Well-known member
The irrational idiocy of it and the fact that one cannot "make it up" is part of the reason it's so difficult to deal with. One cannot rationalize with the irrational.
It should be easily dismissed and pushed to the fringes but lack of development of basic critical thinking skills and failure to take the nutters and q-anon devotees more seriously has put us in this frightening situation.
The discussion should be about policy and character.
 

Hypatia_Alexandria

Active member
The irrational idiocy of it and the fact that one cannot "make it up" is part of the reason it's so difficult to deal with.
I entirely agree. Here we are about to enter the third decade of the 21st century and it appears that millions of people still have medieval superstitions and beliefs [the QAnon conspiracies are merely the latest accretions to centuries old nonsense] and/or believe whatever mountebank or snake oil merchant tells them. The arrival of deep fake technology will only make matters worse.

Millions of us have a world library, quite literally, at our fingertips, and yet so many remain entirely ignorant.

One cannot rationalize with the irrational.
That is very true and that is the worrying part because whatever rational argument you produce their irrationality will challenge it as the video footage clearly demonstrates. Or else they will refuse to accept facts - like the woman in the link convinced Obama is a Muslim and nothing will change her view. Or the man who has no proof, just his opinion.

It should be easily dismissed and pushed to the fringes but lack of development of basic critical thinking skills and failure to take the nutters and q-anon devotees more seriously has put us in this frightening situation.
These ideas have always been lurking on the periphery of society but years ago the [potential] devotee would have had to source a particular magazine and subscribe to it, or find a like-minded group in their vicinity.

Now it is all brought to them courtesy of that brilliant invention, the net. And the net is a brilliant invention no doubt about it. However, as with all technology it is two-edged and so many now live in their "bubble" of FB and Twitter and read and see little else.
 

Carol

Active member
The irrational idiocy of it and the fact that one cannot "make it up" is part of the reason it's so difficult to deal with. One cannot rationalize with the irrational.
It should be easily dismissed and pushed to the fringes but lack of development of basic critical thinking skills and failure to take the nutters and q-anon devotees more seriously has put us in this frightening situation.
The discussion should be about policy and character.

Where are your discussions about policy?
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
I entirely agree. Here we are about to enter the third decade of the 21st century and it appears that millions of people still have medieval superstitions and beliefs [the QAnon conspiracies are merely the latest accretions to centuries old nonsense] and/or believe whatever mountebank or snake oil merchant tells them. The arrival of deep fake technology will only make matters worse.

Millions of us have a world library, quite literally, at our fingertips, and yet so many remain entirely ignorant.


That is very true and that is the worrying part because whatever rational argument you produce their irrationality will challenge it as the video footage clearly demonstrates. Or else they will refuse to accept facts - like the woman in the link convinced Obama is a Muslim and nothing will change her view. Or the man who has no proof, just his opinion.


These ideas have always been lurking on the periphery of society but years ago the [potential] devotee would have had to source a particular magazine and subscribe to it, or find a like-minded group in their vicinity.

Now it is all brought to them courtesy of that brilliant invention, the net. And the net is a brilliant invention no doubt about it. However, as with all technology it is two-edged and so many now live in their "bubble" of FB and Twitter and read and see little else.
Their positions are impervious to reason.
Where are your discussions about policy?
I'm more concerned with character, integrity, truth etc. Policies don't matter if the mechanism for establishing policy doesn't work.
 
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