Limited atonement

[Reformedguy]

Our Arminian/Provisionist friends also limit the atonement. They limit its effect. It is made effectual by the will of man.

Calvinists limit its scope, they limit its effects.

 

[Kampioen]

Our Arminian/Provisionist friends also limit the atonement. They limit its effect. It is made effectual by the will of man.

Calvinists limit its scope, they limit its effects.

God limited it's effects to those who have libertarian faith.

 

[Reformedguy]

God limited it's effects to those who have libertarian faith.

So its limited then, thanks for making my point. You believe in limited atonement

 

[PeanutGallery]

So its limited then, thanks for making my point. You believe in limited atonement

Atonement limited to those who turned to the Lord, as did those who turned to the serpent.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

...........
However, it is not limited as stated in OP, "by the will of man"; rather, it pleases God to save those who believe.

 

[Reformedguy]

Atonement limited to those who turned to the Lord, as did those who turned to the serpent.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

...........
However, it is not limited as stated in OP, "by the will of man"; rather, it pleases God to save those who believe.

So you also believe in a limited atonement.

And you believe by your will correct? So it is limited by the will of man

 

[PeanutGallery]

So you also believe in a limited atonement.

And you believe by your will correct? So it is limited by the will of man

It is limited by the will of God to save those who believe.
The will of the prodigal son did not save him; it was the will of the father to forgive his son.
The will of the publican did not save him; it was the will of God to forgive the publican.

 

[Reformedguy]

It is limited by the will of God to save those who believe.
The will of the prodigal son did not save him; it was the will of the father to forgive his son.
The will of the publican did not save him; it was the will of God to forgive the publican.

So its limited then thank you. Limited by the will of man

 

[American Gothic]

the desire of God seems to be to have relationship with people
the OT is all about covenants and promises and relationship
how many Christians/Churches view it that way?

the Sin/sins issue was an issue
but that is not a separating issue anymore
only Unbelief is keeping anyone out of the relationship, and unbelief is because of their own fallen nature

Limited atonement says that most people don't even have the option of relationship
because in that view the work of Messiah wasn't even for them

 

[Howie]

... Limited atonement says that most people don't even have the option of relationship
because in that view the work of Messiah wasn't even for them

God's position that belief, being necessary to the appropriation and application of the effect of the atonement, limits the atonement to those who believe which means, Messiah's work was never intended for those whom God knew would never believe.

 

[American Gothic]

God's position that belief, being necessary to the appropriation and application of the effect of the atonement, limits the atonement to those who believe which means (?) Messiah's work is not for those who never believe.

if they didn't believe, it wasn't for them
and if they believe, it was for them...
this is a stating of L point, not a proof of it
just an application of a pre held to TULIP belief

"they didn't receive the gift, therefore it wasn't even offered to or for them"

"fit because it survived,
survived because it was fit"
that is circular Darwinism point and belief, but not an explanation of much of anything

 

[squirrelyguy]

God's position that belief, being necessary to the appropriation and application of the effect of the atonement, limits the atonement to those who believe which means, Messiah's work was never intended for those whom God knew would never believe.

"Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?" - Hebrews 10:29

 

[Kampioen]

So its limited then, thanks for making my point. You believe in limited atonement

Yes. But the atonement itself is not limited but the acceptance of it is.

 

[Howie]

"Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?" - Hebrews 10:29

Could you be more vague?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Our Arminian/Provisionist friends also limit the atonement.

True.

 

[Howie]

if they didn't believe, it wasn't for them
and if they believe, it was for them...
this is a stating of L point, not a proof of it
just an application of a pre held to TULIP belief

God always knew who would, and who wouldn't believe -- always.

"they didn't receive the gift, therefore it wasn't even offered to or for them"

Not true. An offer doesn't neccessitate acceptance of the offer.

"fit because it survived,
survived because it was fit"
that is circular Darwinism point and belief, but not an explanation of much of anything

Whatever that means.

 

[squirrelyguy]

Could you be more vague?

I guess the words "counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing" don't provoke any thoughts in your mind regarding the scope of the atonement? If so, then I can't sell you what you aren't buying.

 

[Howie]

I guess the words "counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing" don't provoke any thoughts in your mind regarding the scope of the atonement? If so, then I can't sell you what you aren't buying.

A text without a context is a pretext.

 

[Reformedguy]

Yes. But the atonement itself is not limited but the acceptance of it is.

Su

I guess the words "counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing" don't provoke any thoughts in your mind regarding the scope of the atonement? If so, then I can't sell you what you aren't buying.

Only those who took the sign of the covenant were set apart. The professing church has tares among the wheat. It's has nothing to do with the scope of the atonement

 

[Kampioen]

Only those who took the sign of the covenant were set apart. The professing church has tares among the wheat. It's has nothing to do with the scope of the atonement

Then it doesn't violate an unlimited atonement. The tares just libertarianly don't accept the atonement made for them.

 

[Howie]

Yes. But the atonement itself is not limited but the acceptance of it is.

Rubbish. The atonement is limited to those who believe.