Look for God in the ONLY way and place that He can known to occur to you.

Tercon

Well-known member
No it doesn't. You've failed to provide any scriptures supporting your claims about reality having to exist in a mind,

Where else is the truth and reality known to exist and occur, when it is only in and with a believing mind that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur silly?

or belief being sufficient for knowledge.
What belief do you have that isn't "sufficient for knowledge" silly?
 

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
You should never be surprised by your own capacity to be deceived, because there is only one reason that unbelievers don't know God and it is because they are self-deceived in and with their own unbelieving mind. They are unbelieving when they should be believing. They look towards the sky for god, when He can only be known to exist and occur where all truth and reality exists and occurs; and that's in and with a believing mind. Since outside of a believing mind nothing can be known to occur or exist. God does not hide or dwell in physicality, but God can only be known to exist and occur in a believing being. Look from within your OWN believing mind, because that's the ONLY way and place His truth and reality can be experienced.
Think of an infinite circle. Tell me what you see?
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Where else is the truth and reality known to exist and occur, when it is only in and with a believing mind that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur silly?
Your question is ambiguous and you keep refusing to clarify what you are asking despite my requests. Knowledge occurs in minds, but reality and truth do not require any mind. And you cannot present any scripture saying otherwise.

What belief do you have that isn't "sufficient for knowledge" silly?
No belief is ever sufficient for knowledge, as knowledge always requires truth and justification in addition to belief. And again, you cannot produce any scripture saying otherwise.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
What has that to do with an infinite circle?

Nothing. If you want you busy yourself with chasing your own tail then knock yourself out, just don't expect everyone to go along with you.

I see the truth and reality in how and why it is only known to believers.
 

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
Nothing. If you want you busy yourself with chasing your own tail then knock yourself out, just don't expect everyone to go along with you.

I see the truth and reality in how and why it is only known to believers.
The question is important. Belief is weak compared to faith.

So imagine an infinite circle. What do you see?
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Your question is ambiguous and you keep refusing to clarify what you are asking despite my requests.

You are conflating ambiguity and your unbelief, as my logical argument refers to and denotes exactly what it means. So, if the truth and reality can ONLY be known to exist and occur in and with a believing mind, and in NO other way or place can the truth and reality be known to exist or occur but in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality must have originated in and with God's believing mind. Why? Because it can't be known to exist or occur anywhere else.

And if it can, then say what that other way or place is that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur outside of a believing mind.

Knowledge occurs in minds, but reality and truth do not require any mind.

Intentionally ambiguous; if knowledge can ONLY occur in minds, then reality and truth must be the product of a believing mind.


And you cannot present any scripture saying otherwise.

Here are hundreds of verses stating that faith is belief and belief is necessary to know anything about the truth and reality of God.

No belief is ever sufficient for knowledge, as knowledge always requires truth and justification in addition to belief.

Your unbelief in belief's capacity to make the truth and reality known to you is sufficient to make you ignorant of the truth and reality. But YOUR unbelief (atheism) isn't sufficient to make anyone else ignorant of the truth and reality; just you silly.

And again, you cannot produce any scripture saying otherwise.

Here are hundreds of verses stating that faith is belief and belief is necessary to know anything about the truth and reality of God.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
You are conflating ambiguity and your unbelief, as my logical argument refers to and denotes exactly what it means. So, if the truth and reality can ONLY be known to exist and occur in and with a believing mind, and in NO other way or place can the truth and reality be known to exist or occur but in and with a believing mind, then the truth and reality must have originated in and with God's believing mind. Why? Because it can't be known to exist or occur anywhere else. And if it can, then say what that other way or place is that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur outside of a believing mind.
I already answered your ambiguous question - both possible versions - despite your refusal to clarify what you meant.

Intentionally ambiguous
How so? Do you have even the faintest idea?

if knowledge can ONLY occur in minds, then reality and truth must be the product of a believing mind.
Complete non sequitur.

Here are hundreds of verses stating that faith is belief and belief is necessary to know anything about the truth and reality of God.
And yet not one of those quotes in your spam-link says anything about truth and reality requiring a mind.

Your unbelief in belief's capacity to make the truth and reality known to you is sufficient to make you ignorant of the truth and reality. But YOUR unbelief (atheism) isn't sufficient to make anyone else ignorant of the truth and reality; just you silly.
I accept that you still don't understand what 'necessary' and 'sufficient' mean.

Here are hundreds of verses stating that faith is belief and belief is necessary to know anything about the truth and reality of God.
And yet not one of those quotes in your spam-link says anything about belief being sufficient for knowledge.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
The answer is nothing.

Yes, chasing one's own tail leads to nothing but self.

Finite beings cannot see the infinite.

God's children (believers) in the truth and reality of God can see His eternity. When a believer believes the truth and reality is only known and experienced in the present like consciousness is experienced, then this excludes the past and future. And the believer gets a glimpse of how and why eternity is only experienceable in the present tense or nowness, like a conscious believing mind is known and experienced.

This is why faith is better than belief. Trying to get someone to belief in nothing makes no sense.

Faith is belief, because you can't even have faith without belief.
And faith is just the belief the believer has in the truth and reality of God.

Faith is mentioned 228 times in the Bible.
Belief and believing is mentioned 253 times.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is God’s power for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16

What then? If some did not believe, will their unbelief cancel God’s faithfulness? Romans 3:3

—that is, God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ, to all who believe, since there is no distinction. Romans 3:22

But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness. Romans 4:5

And he received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while still uncircumcised. This was to make him the father of all who believe but are not circumcised, so that righteousness may be credited to them also. Romans 4:11

And since we have the same spirit of faith in keeping with what is written, I believed, therefore I spoke, we also believe, and therefore speak. 2 Corinthians 4:13

know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified. Galatians 2:16

But the Scripture has imprisoned everything under sin’s power, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Galatians 3:22

Let no one despise your youth; instead, you should be an example to the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. 1 Timothy 4:12

Now without faith it is impossible to please God, for the one who draws near to Him must believe that He exists and rewards those who seek Him. Hebrews 11:6

Who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. 1 Peter 1:21

Resist him and be firm in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are being experienced by your fellow believers throughout the world. 1 Peter 5:9
 

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
Yes, chasing one's own tail leads to nothing but self.



God's children (believers) in the truth and reality of God can see His eternity. When a believer believes the truth and reality is only known and experienced in the present like consciousness is experienced, then this excludes the past and future. And the believer gets a glimpse of how and why eternity is only experienceable in the present tense or nowness, like a conscious believing mind is known and experienced.



Faith is belief, because you can't even have faith without belief.
And faith is just the belief the believer has in the truth and reality of God.

Faith is mentioned 228 times in the Bible.
Belief and believing is mentioned 253 times.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is God’s power for salvation to everyone who believes, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16

What then? If some did not believe, will their unbelief cancel God’s faithfulness? Romans 3:3

—that is, God’s righteousness through faith in Jesus Christ, to all who believe, since there is no distinction. Romans 3:22

But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness. Romans 4:5

And he received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while still uncircumcised. This was to make him the father of all who believe but are not circumcised, so that righteousness may be credited to them also. Romans 4:11

And since we have the same spirit of faith in keeping with what is written, I believed, therefore I spoke, we also believe, and therefore speak. 2 Corinthians 4:13

know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified. Galatians 2:16

But the Scripture has imprisoned everything under sin’s power, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. Galatians 3:22

Let no one despise your youth; instead, you should be an example to the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. 1 Timothy 4:12

Now without faith it is impossible to please God, for the one who draws near to Him must believe that He exists and rewards those who seek Him. Hebrews 11:6

Who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. 1 Peter 1:21

Resist him and be firm in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are being experienced by your fellow believers throughout the world. 1 Peter 5:9
You assume the bible is the exclusive word of God? Yes?

Well you have handed your own authority over to a Roman emperor Constantine and Anathasius among others. They decided their opinion was greater than others.

Faith is not the same as belief and belief is not needed for faith. Belief has blocked you and your thinking. Only what you believe can get through.

Faith on the other hand is an opening it accepts other information. Belief has become the opposite of faith.

Faith is a letting go, it has no preconceptions.

Belief closes your mind to where you will not accept any truth unless it fits your preconceived ideas and wishes.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
You assume the bible is the exclusive word of God? Yes?

I believe the truth and reality of God can be found in the Bible.

Well you have handed your own authority over to a Roman emperor Constantine and Anathasius among others. They decided their opinion was greater than others.

Strawman. The Bible isn't represented by anyone's opinion. But the Bible is a completely belief based knowledge of the way and means by which God uses in order to reveal Himself to His children (believers).

If my belief is found and represented in and by the Bible, then I share in Christ's belief and his faith.

Faith is not the same as belief and belief is not needed for faith. Belief has blocked you and your thinking. Only what you believe can get through.

Can you have faith and have unbelief in Christ? No! So, belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality of God known to believers. Why do you think God's children are also called believers.

Faith on the other hand is an opening it accepts other information. Belief has become the opposite of faith.

Not true and completely unbiblical. You cannot have faith without belief.

Faith is a letting go, it has no preconceptions.

"Letting go" of what, the truth and reality? If belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to everyone including you, then you can't know the truth and reality of God without belief.

Belief closes your mind to where you will not accept any truth unless it fits your preconceived ideas and wishes.

Nonsense, you are conflating belief and unbelief, as that's what unbelief does; it makes the unbeliever ignorant of the truth and reality of God. You obviously misinterpreted the Bible, because everything God has for believers is administered to them in and through belief. Here is hundreds of verse stating just that very thing.
 

Faithoverbelief

Well-known member
He is a perfect example of what I posted. He is so rigid in his belief he cannot and will not allow anything in that does not conform to his beliefs. He is not open, he lacks faith.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
He is a perfect example of what I posted. He is so rigid in his belief he cannot and will not allow anything in that does not conform to his beliefs. He is not open, he lacks faith.
Strawman and projection. Belief in God's truth and reality is faith silly.

And if you disbelieve faith contains belief, then that makes you a unbeliever, because belief is God's ordained mode by which He makes Himself known to believers.
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
I already answered your ambiguous question - both possible versions - despite your refusal to clarify what you meant.

It has been clarified many times, you're just evading it.
How so? Do you have even the faintest idea?

You are pretending that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur outside of a believing mind, when it is ONLY a believing mind that can even know of its existence and occurrence to begin with.

Complete non sequitur.

If the truth and reality can't be known to exist or occur outside a mind or without a believing mind, then where else is there that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur silly?

And yet not one of those quotes in your spam-link says anything about truth and reality requiring a mind.

Every verse indicates that a believing mind is necessary and entailed in all knowledge of the truth and reality.

I accept that you still don't understand what 'necessary' and 'sufficient' mean.

I know that you are dishonest, because you don't care to know the truth or reality, you are satisfied to wallow in your self-induced ignorance forever.

And yet not one of those quotes in your spam-link says anything about belief being sufficient for knowledge.

Every verse indicates that a belief and believing mind is necessary and entailed in all knowledge of the truth and reality.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
It has been clarified many times, you're just evading it.
False on both counts. You never clarified, and I've already answered anyway.

You are pretending that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur outside of a believing mind, when it is ONLY a believing mind that can even know of its existence and occurrence to begin with.
Strawman. That's neither an ambiguity nor something I've argued.

If the truth and reality can't be known to exist or occur outside a mind or without a believing mind, then where else is there that the truth and reality can be known to exist and occur silly?
Ambiguous and already answered.

I know that you are dishonest, because you don't care to know the truth or reality, you are satisfied to wallow in your self-induced ignorance forever.
Ad hominem and obvious projection.

Every verse indicates that a believing mind is necessary and entailed in all knowledge of the truth and reality.

Every verse indicates that a belief and believing mind is necessary and entailed in all knowledge of the truth and reality.
Not what you were asked to support. Your bait and switch is very obvious. Not a single quote in your spammed link says anything about reality having to exist in a mind or about belief being sufficient for knowledge.
 
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