Lost Faith

It proves the unregenerate can receive the word of the kingdom ...
And are not saved by that faith.

... contrary to your theology
Straw man.

They're not saved, Tom, thereby proving my theology.

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.
The parable in Luke 8 proves that ONLY 25% OF PROFESSING BELIEVERS TRULY BELIEVE.
 
The parable in Luke 8 proves that ONLY 25% OF PROFESSING BELIEVERS TRULY BELIEVE.
You are running from the point Howie

It proves the unregenerate can receive the word of the kingdom contrary to your theology

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.
 
You are running from the point Howie

It proves the unregenerate can receive the word of the kingdom
And not be saved by their false faith.

... contrary to your theology
Straw man.

They're not saved, Tom, thereby proving my theology.

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.
The parable in Luke 8 proves that ONLY 25% OF PROFESSING BELIEVERS TRULY BELIEVE.
 
And not be saved by their false faith.


Straw man.

They're not saved, Tom, thereby proving my theology.


The parable in Luke 8 proves that ONLY 25% OF PROFESSING BELIEVERS TRULY BELIEVE.
Sorry once again your theology insists the unregenerate cannot receive the things of God.

Scripture shows they did

Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

that refutes your theology.

ii
 
PERSONAL OPINION: Since FAITH (which has "Substance" and is an "Evidence"), is based exclusively on GOD'S WORD (Rom 10:17).

Then (based on personal experience) getting busy / focusing on other things that are "More interesting", can have the effect of allowing God's WORD (and your dynamic relationship with God) to "Slip away", and your "LIVING FAITH" gradually degenerates to the fading memory of having HAD "Living Faith", and after a while, there's little or nothing left.

It's my experience that God DOES sent wake-up calls - sometimes pretty brutal ones - before one lets it "slip away" altogether.

Bottom line - there are Biblical WARNINGS about "falling away" so there's apparently the possibility of doing so.

However it takes much more than "One Strike" before you're "Out".

What you do HABITUALLY after being Born Again, is what determines your spiritual status.
According to this ☝️Jesus is not the finisher of ones faith, and despite Him saying He will never leave you nor forsake you, He will at some point forsake you if you become really really bad.

Oh, the power of the almighty human will!
 
Can someone lose their faith and get it back? When thinking of this topic, we also have to think about faith is trusting God. How does one stop trusting God and then start back up again? Is this possible? If so, what is the process?
I can tell you that if you have an absolute conviction that [one] before being born again chose to believe and put their trust in God, then it was by the flesh and not by the Spirit.
If that same person chooses not to believe what they believe anymore, then it is as it was originally, in the flesh and not Spiritual.

It is impossible for someone who has his/her Spirit made alive from death and comes face to face with God in fear and trembling, to later deny that they met Him.
They would be nothing but liars, either about the first instance, or the second.
 
I can tell you that if you have an absolute conviction that [one] before being born again chose to believe and put their trust in God, then it was by the flesh and not by the Spirit.
If that same person chooses not to believe what they believe anymore, then it is as it was originally, in the flesh and not Spiritual.

It is impossible for someone who has his/her Spirit made alive from death and comes face to face with God in fear and trembling, to later deny that they met Him.
They would be nothing but liars, either about the first instance, or the second.
so while being in the flesh one can believe?
 
so while being in the flesh one can believe?
According to you they can believe and stop believing as the whim takes them.

This is the case with all free will sects. Mormons, JW's etc.
They all believe they made the right choice, just like you.
 
According to you they can believe and stop believing as the whim takes them.

This is the case with all free will sects. Mormons, JW's etc.
They all believe they made the right choice, just like you.
This was scripture not me

1 Timothy 1:19 (ESV) — 19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,

You will notice it was their faith which was shipwrecked

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.


and it is clear these unregenerate believed for a while, thus their belief was temporary

1 Timothy 6:10 (ESV) — 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

1 Timothy 6:20–21 (ESV) — 20 O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” 21 for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. Grace be with you.

1 Timothy 4:1 (ESV) — 1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

BTW Mormons and JW are not christian sects

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This was scripture not me

1 Timothy 1:19 (ESV) — 19 holding faith and a good conscience. By rejecting this, some have made shipwreck of their faith,

You will notice it was their faith which was shipwrecked

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.


and it is clear these unregenerate believed for a while, thus their belief was temporary

1 Timothy 6:10 (ESV) — 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

1 Timothy 6:20–21 (ESV) — 20 O Timothy, guard the deposit entrusted to you. Avoid the irreverent babble and contradictions of what is falsely called “knowledge,” 21 for by professing it some have swerved from the faith. Grace be with you.

1 Timothy 4:1 (ESV) — 1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

BTW Mormons and JW are not christian sects

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Nothing in there about them choosing to believe as the whim took them.
You like those in the non Christian sects believe what you choose to believe. That is why you are wrong. You base it on your own will and perceived cleverness.

1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
 
Nothing in there about them choosing to believe as the whim took them.
You like those in the non Christian sects believe what you choose to believe. That is why you are wrong. You base it on your own will and perceived cleverness.

1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
Did you have a problem reading?

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.
 
Did you have a problem reading?

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.
Unbelievers, always.

Tom is advocating for the loss of salvation.
 
Unbelievers, always.

Tom is advocating for the loss of salvation.
Nope

The fact the unregenerate can believe

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

you have no answer for it.
 
Nope

The fact the unregenerate can believe

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

you have no answer for it.
Tom, do you choose God first, or does God first elect you, and then you believe at the time appointed by Him for you to believe?
 
Tom, do you choose God first, or does God first elect you, and then you believe at the time appointed by Him for you to believe?
You are repeating yourself, to elect is to choose.

God chooses to save those who believe.

There are no passages in the bible of God choosing who will be converted.
 
Did you have a problem reading?

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.
Nothing in there about someone choosing to believe in order to get themselves saved.

All who have no root in them, choose what they want to believe on a whim. No revelation of truth that leads to repentance. Only a false sense.
Just like those who claim to have spiritual discernment while they are still spiritually dead and lead by a false spirit
 
Nothing in there about someone choosing to believe in order to get themselves saved.

All who have no root in them, choose what they want to believe on a whim. No revelation of truth that leads to repentance. Only a false sense.
Just like those who claim to have spiritual discernment while they are still spiritually dead and lead by a false spirit
Plainly it notes those who were not regenerated can believe

Luke 8:13 (ESV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.


as do these as well

John 12:40 (ESV) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”

Acts 28:27 (ESV) — 27 For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’
 
He choose those who believe, Tom.


Eph 1; Rom 9
Not found anywhere in scripture

and scripture refutes your claim

Romans 11:19–23 (ESV) — 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
 
Not found anywhere in scripture
Note Tom ignores my cited scripture -- Eph 1; Rom 9. ?

and scripture refutes your claim

Romans 11:19–23 (ESV) — 19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. 23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
That proves my point, Tom, thanks.

Those who don't believe -- not elect by God to salvation.

Those who truly believe -- elect by God to salvation.

Do you decide who will, and who will not enter your kingdom, Tom, yes, or no?
 
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