Love and Limited Atonement

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TomFL

Guest
No

He saves those that believe

Will you ever address the scriptures

Just like the industry standard lexicon BDAG

His desire is to save all He will save those who bhelieve

He does not fail in that

Your theology needs to be based on scripture

John 3:17 (KJV)
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 12:47 (KJV)
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
what do those verses state ?
What is it Christ came to save ?



The understanding which is supported by lexicon and context which you continually fail to address

What is your problem with basing your theology on scripture ?
 
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TomFL

Guest
That's a nonsensical statement, though.

There is no "Scripture" without a method of interpretation.

Words require meaning and logic of some kind, and how do you know your meaning and logic is the best one, when you have to start with it before you can even read words. It's a circular thing none of us can get out of.
Not really

As one could have an assumed theology

based on a preconceived system

and fail to base their theology on scripture
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Including the sin of unbelief?
Faith is the means to access God's grace.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Faith is the means to access God's grace.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Thats not what I asked
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Thats not what I asked
Faith is the means to access God's grace; unbelief is not the means to access God's grace.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
So when He went to the cross His intent was to save only those who believe? Something like limited atonement?
Not like your view of limited atonement

In your view the non elect never had an atonement available for them

in the non Calvinist view there is an atonement available but it was rejected
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Not like your view of limited atonement

In your view the non elect never had an atonement available for them

in the non Calvinist view there is an atonement available but it was rejected
Right. So Christ atoned for the sins of some in hell. That makes sense.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Faith is the means to access God's grace; unbelief is not the means to access God's grace.

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Still not what I asked. Shall i repeat the question?
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Still not what I asked. Shall i repeat the question?
Did Christ take away the sins of fear, unbelief, abomination, murder, whoremongering, sorcery, idolatry, lies?

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Did Christ take away the sins of fear, unbelief, abomination, murder, whoremongering, sorcery, idolatry, lies?

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
He does not understand provisional atonement
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Did Christ take away the sins of fear, unbelief, abomination, murder, whoremongering, sorcery, idolatry, lies?

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Still not what I asked. Did He also take away the sin of unbelief?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Not like your view of limited atonement

In your view the non elect never had an atonement available for them

in the non Calvinist view there is an atonement available but it was rejected
Your right. It's not available to them because it's not intended for them. In the Calvinist view our Lord actually does save those He intends to save without fail. He saves those given to Him by the Father.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Your right. It's not available to them because it's not intended for them. In the Calvinist view our Lord actually does save those He intends to save without fail. He saves those given to Him by the Father.
The Calvinist view is contrary to scripture



Christ died for all

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Exported from Logos Bible Software, 8:03 AM April 22, 2021.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Still not what I asked. Did He also take away the sin of unbelief?
If he takes away the sins of fear, abomination, murder, whoremongering, sorcery, idolatry, lies; he also takes away the sin of unbelief.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
If he takes away the sins of fear, abomination, murder, whoremongering, sorcery, idolatry, lies; he also takes away the sin of unbelief.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Did Christ take away the sin of unbelief, yes or no?
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
The Calvinist view is contrary to scripture



Christ died for all

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.


Exported from Logos Bible Software, 8:03 AM April 22, 2021.
Christ died for all? Okay. Even those He knows are never going to believe? Why? Get a load of this logic lurkers.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Christ died for all? Okay. Even those He knows are never going to believe? Why? Get a load of this logic lurkers.
Once again you fail to address scripture

Christ died for all

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
 
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