Love in the TULIP

Theo1689

Well-known member
Earlier today someone posted a quote from a poster which was from private correspondence, and it got removed (I didn't report it, but I noticed that it broke the rules, so I'm not surprised).

The poster claimed "there is nothing loving in TULIP", and I briefly responded that there was. Since I didn't elaborate, I thought I'd do that now.

Total Depravity - TD doesn't fall in the spectrum of "love-hate", it simply describes a Biblical fact. But it isn't so much a "lack of love" (did Arminians wish God to violate our "free will"?!), but man's rejection of God's love and his desire for independence, and the misguided idea that he could live independently of God.

Unconditional Election - We are elected for salvation unconditionally. We don't have to "jump through hoops", or do anything, God elects us just because. Do your parents force you to do something before they "love" you? Of course not, they love you just because you're you. They'll even love you through the bad times. Murderer Scott Peterson was loved by his mother until the day she died.

Limited Atonement - How can anyone try to claim that Christ's atoning death on the cross is anything but the ULTIMATE act of love? I especially like to think of this point as "Particular Redemption". And the point is that God didn't simply throw out "offers" of salvation to "whosoever" (like God doesn't care WHO is saved, as long as some are saved). He died for ME personally. He died for ReverendRV personally. He died for TibiasDad personally. That is PERSONAL love to INDIVIDUAL sinners, not some impersonal, "vanilla" talking point of "love". Non-Calvinists might think this point is unloving because it's "limited", but that's not an indication of "lack of love" on God's part, it is an attitude of entitlement and demand by sinner enemies of god.

Irresistible Grace - God loves his elect so much that He irresistibly draws them to Himself (John 6:44), to make sure that we attain the salvation that God provided for us. How loving!

Preservation of the Saints - God loves his elect so much that He sent His son to be the "Good Shepherd", to retrieve us whenever we wander off, and make sure we WILL be preserved for eternal life. How incredibly loving!
 

Kampioen

Well-known member
Earlier today someone posted a quote from a poster which was from private correspondence, and it got removed (I didn't report it, but I noticed that it broke the rules, so I'm not surprised).

The poster claimed "there is nothing loving in TULIP", and I briefly responded that there was. Since I didn't elaborate, I thought I'd do that now.

Total Depravity - TD doesn't fall in the spectrum of "love-hate", it simply describes a Biblical fact. But it isn't so much a "lack of love" (did Arminians wish God to violate our "free will"?!), but man's rejection of God's love and his desire for independence, and the misguided idea that he could live independently of God.

Unconditional Election - We are elected for salvation unconditionally. We don't have to "jump through hoops", or do anything, God elects us just because. Do your parents force you to do something before they "love" you? Of course not, they love you just because you're you. They'll even love you through the bad times. Murderer Scott Peterson was loved by his mother until the day she died.

Limited Atonement - How can anyone try to claim that Christ's atoning death on the cross is anything but the ULTIMATE act of love? I especially like to think of this point as "Particular Redemption". And the point is that God didn't simply throw out "offers" of salvation to "whosoever" (like God doesn't care WHO is saved, as long as some are saved). He died for ME personally.

He died for ReverendRV personally. He died for TibiasDad personally. That is PERSONAL love to INDIVIDUAL sinners, not some impersonal, "vanilla" talking point of "love". Non-Calvinists might think this point is unloving because it's "limited", but that's not an indication of "lack of love" on God's part, it is an attitude of entitlement and demand by sinner enemies of god.

Irresistible Grace - God loves his elect so much that He irresistibly draws them to Himself (John 6:44), to make sure that we attain the salvation that God provided for us. How loving!

Preservation of the Saints - God loves his elect so much that He sent His son to be the "Good Shepherd", to retrieve us whenever we wander off, and make sure we WILL be preserved for eternal life. How incredibly loving!

Did God pre-hate the nonelect individually and personally?
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Love is patient,
love is kind.
It does not envy,
it does not boast,
it is not proud.
It does not dishonor others,
it is not self-seeking,
it is not easily angered,
it keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil
but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects,
always trusts,
always hopes,
always perseveres.
Love never fails

Congratulations! You learned something!
Now you've grown!
That's amazing!

Praise God!!!!
 

Synergy

Well-known member
Earlier today someone posted a quote from a poster which was from private correspondence, and it got removed (I didn't report it, but I noticed that it broke the rules, so I'm not surprised).

The poster claimed "there is nothing loving in TULIP", and I briefly responded that there was. Since I didn't elaborate, I thought I'd do that now.

Total Depravity - TD doesn't fall in the spectrum of "love-hate", it simply describes a Biblical fact. But it isn't so much a "lack of love" (did Arminians wish God to violate our "free will"?!), but man's rejection of God's love and his desire for independence, and the misguided idea that he could live independently of God.
Does a common man, who has never heard the Gospel preached, have value in the eyes of the Calvinist God? If so then what value is that?
Unconditional Election - We are elected for salvation unconditionally. We don't have to "jump through hoops", or do anything, God elects us just because. Do your parents force you to do something before they "love" you? Of course not, they love you just because you're you. They'll even love you through the bad times. Murderer Scott Peterson was loved by his mother until the day she died.
Does the Calvinist God predestine man into 2 segregated camps: Sheep and Goats?
Limited Atonement - How can anyone try to claim that Christ's atoning death on the cross is anything but the ULTIMATE act of love? I especially like to think of this point as "Particular Redemption". And the point is that God didn't simply throw out "offers" of salvation to "whosoever" (like God doesn't care WHO is saved, as long as some are saved). He died for ME personally. He died for ReverendRV personally. He died for TibiasDad personally. That is PERSONAL love to INDIVIDUAL sinners, not some impersonal, "vanilla" talking point of "love". Non-Calvinists might think this point is unloving because it's "limited", but that's not an indication of "lack of love" on God's part, it is an attitude of entitlement and demand by sinner enemies of god.
What if a Holy Spirit-convicted Goat wants to repent and have that same relationship that he heartedly witnesses other Christians possessing? Is he out of luck?
Irresistible Grace - God loves his elect so much that He irresistibly draws them to Himself (John 6:44), to make sure that we attain the salvation that God provided for us. How loving!
What if a Holy Spirit-convicted Goat has a broken and contrite heart, will the Calvinist God grant him repentance?
Preservation of the Saints - God loves his elect so much that He sent His son to be the "Good Shepherd", to retrieve us whenever we wander off, and make sure we WILL be preserved for eternal life. How incredibly loving!
Is it true that in Calvinism a Sheep, that militantly rebels against God, can get a free pass to heaven and a Goat, who whole-heartedly repents through the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit, gets nothing?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Does a common man, who has never heard the Gospel preached, have value in the eyes of the Calvinist God? If so then what value is that?

Imago Dei.
Ever heard of it?

Does the Calvinist God predestine man into 2 segregated camps: Sheep and Goats?

The Bible says yes.
Do you reject the Bible?

What if a Holy Spirit-convicted Goat wants to repent and have that same relationship that he heartedly witnesses other Christians possessing? Is he out of luck?

What if a circle has four corners?
Any other idiotic suggestions you want to make?

What if a Holy Spirit-convicted Goat has a broken and contrite heart, will the Calvinist God grant him repentance?

What if a circle has four corners?
Any other idiotic suggestions you want to make?

Is it true that in Calvinism a Sheep, that militantly rebels against God, can get a free pass to heaven and a Goat, who whole-heartedly repents through the convicting ministry of the Holy Spirit, gets nothing?

What if a circle has four corners?
Any other idiotic suggestions you want to make?
 

Synergy

Well-known member
Imago Dei.
Ever heard of it?

The Bible says yes.
Do you reject the Bible?

What if a circle has four corners?
Any other idiotic suggestions you want to make?

What if a circle has four corners?
Any other idiotic suggestions you want to make?

What if a circle has four corners?
Any other idiotic suggestions you want to make?
Like clockwork, here comes the parade of insults from Calvinists. Resorting to insults is very unbecoming.
 

HealTheLand

Active member
Amplified Bible

But the wisdom from above is first pure [morally and spiritually undefiled], then peace-loving [courteous, considerate], gentle, reasonable [and willing to listen], full of compassion and good fruits. It is unwavering, without [self-righteous] hypocrisy [and self-serving guile].

Christian Standard Bible

But the wisdom from above is first pure, then
peace-loving, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without pretense.
 
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HealTheLand

Active member
Did God pre-hate the nonelect individually and personally?

God is love, so... what do -- you -- think...

if we we were God... what would we do ?


what seems fair / just / right / honorable?

and how long a time would be needful


to bring about all fairness and love --

of neighbor as the very same as to us?
 
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Beloved Daughter

Super Member
I know what biblical love is unlike calvin who left it out of his institutes and so did the WFC with Gods attributes.

Oops
You obviously have not read the Institutes, yet here you are with what appears to be a minimum of Biblical knowledge, aren't aware of the fact that we know better.

You can disagree all you want, that's what the forums are for. But it's the way you do it, that keeps you in the jailhouse.
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
(the two groups -Sheep and Goats...)

\
The Bible says yes.
Do you reject the Bible?
what about Israel vis a vis the gentile Nations...
how does hyper C view those two distinctive Peoples designations
in God's viewing and plans?

are Church saints part of sheep/goats judgement?
or are they already something else?
 
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ReverendRV

Well-known member
what about Israel vis a vis the gentile Nations
how does hyper C view those two distinctive Peoples designations
in God's viewing and plans?

are Church saints part of sheep/goats judgement?
or are the already something else?
Classically speaking, the Sheep and Goats are the Elect and the Reprobate; the Lowest Common Denominator of Categories. All other People Groups can be found within these two bottom-line Categories of people...
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
Classically speaking, the Sheep and Goats are the Elect and the Reprobate; the Lowest Common Denominator of Categories. All other People Groups can be found within these two bottom-line Categories of people...
I view that judgement as a judgement specifically on the Nations
some from there will be/were sheep and some goats vis a vis Israel in the Tribulation

the Church is already married to Messiah at this time
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I view that judgement as a judgement specifically on the Nations
some from there will be/were sheep and some goats vis a xis Israel in the Tribulation

the Church is already married to Messiah at this time
I'm no expert on Eschatology, so maybe you are right. But regarding Calvinism, I'm right. You might be able to get a short discussion on Eschatology started here, but they usually don't last very long...

If the Sheep and Goats are different Nations, why is one Nation a Sheep but the other is a Goat?
 

American Gothic

Well-known member
I'm no expert on Eschatology, so maybe you are right. But regarding Calvinism, I'm right. You might be able to get a short discussion on Eschatology started here, but they usually don't last very long...
If the Sheep and Goats are different Nations, why is one Nation a Sheep but the other is a Goat?
it could be Individuals from The Nations ("gentiles" just meaning "nations"/those not the nation of Israel)

I consider myself "Calvinistic" in outlook and theological bent
I don't know much how those from Reformed traditions/churches view Israel
or if they think about it much
their status as an elect nation among the Nations was always taught in mine
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
it could be Individuals from The Nations ("gentiles" just meaning "nations"/those not the nation of Israel)

I consider myself "Calvinistic" in outlook and theological bent
I don't know much how those from Reformed traditions/churches view Israel
or if they think about it much
their status as an elect nation among the Nations was always taught in mine
The Reformed are usually Amillenial or Post Millenial; perhaps mixed with Preterism...
 
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