Lutheran doctrine contradicts Lutheran doctrine (i.e. Exodus 12 – Passover Instituted)

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All three Lutheran positions below claim “truth” “according to the Scriptures”. (i.e. Exodus 12:6 - “beyn ha’arbayim – “between two evenings” – “twilight”)

Which Lutheran doctrinal position is true “according to the Scriptures”? (1)?; (2)?; (3)?

Which Lutheran doctrinal positions are bearing “false” witness? (1)?; (2)?; (3)? (i.e. contrary to God’s commands to Moses in Exodus 12 – Passover)

There is only “one” Holy Spirit “inspired” meaning of “beyn ha’arbayim – “between two evenings” – “twilight” – “according to the Scriptures”. (i.e. "first" mention – Exodus 12:6)



ss|(1)_____________________(_2_)ss|(3)________________________ss|


Key: - ss| (sunset)

Key: - Exodus 12:6 - “beyn ha’arbayim” – “between two evenings” – “twilight” – positions (1); (2); (3)

  • (1) – twilight beginning Nisan 14 - between sunset and “end of daylight” – from Jewish man’s perspective – sunset to sunset reckoning
  • (2) – twilight between 3 p.m. and 6 p.m. ending Nisan 14 afternoon – sunset to sunset reckoning
  • (3) – twilight ending Nisan 14 – between sunset and “end of daylight” – from God’s Perspective – (i.e. Nisan 14 from God’s Perspective - “beginning of daylight” (morning) to “end of daylight” (evening) reckoning - (i.e. Genesis 1:5) (Numbers 9:15,21))

Key: - Exodus 12:6 - “beyn ha’arbayim” – “between two evenings” – “twilight” – positions (1); (2); (3)

  • (1) – (i.e. LCMS doctrine – i.e. per interim President Dr. Daniel Preus - Concordia Seminary St. Louis )
  • (2) – (i.e. WELS doctrine – i.e. W. Georgi’s doctrine - Concordia Theological Monthly -Vol. XVIII; April, 1947; No. 4) (p. 264, last paragraph)
  • (3) – (i.e. Paschal Lamb Ministries’ doctrine – i.e. David Behrens' doctrine - baptized and confirmed in the Lutheran traditions (LCMS) within the one true faith – Biblical Judeo/Christian faith (Genesis 1:1 – Revelation 22:21))


Note1: All Lutherans are bound by Scriptural authority (Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21), and by the Lutheran Confessions’ authority - not to make public or declare for truth, anything that cannot be properly proved with sufficient clear evidence. (i.e. Reference: The Book of Concord - The Large Catechism - The Ten Commandments - The Eighth Commandment - 254] 271] 272]; (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21))

Note2: (LCMS) Concordia Seminary St. Louis interim President Dr. Daniel Preus confirmed to Paschal Lamb Ministries in November, 2020, that W. Georgi’s article (Concordia Theological Monthly -Vol. XVIII; April, 1947; No. 4), was never adopted by Concordia Seminary as its official position, and that it cannot be said that Concordia Seminary St. Louis espouses W. Georgi’s views.


So, Lutherans, which doctrine truthfully shows how Moses, and the congregation of Israel, obeyed God’s commands in (Exodus 12:6) perfectly? If Lutherans don’t clearly understand how God’s commands in (Exodus 12:6) were perfectly obeyed by Moses, and the congregation of Israel, then Lutherans can’t possibly clearly understand how Jesus, and Jesus’ family and friends, perfectly obeyed God’s commands in (Exodus 12:6) during their lifetimes.


2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Footnote: [a] training, discipline


In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
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I am sorry, but I fail to see whatever point you are attempting to make. We conservative Lutherans all believe the Scriptures....so not sure what your beef is.
 
I am sorry, but I fail to see whatever point you are attempting to make. We conservative Lutherans all believe the Scriptures....so not sure what your beef is.

If Lutherans don’t clearly understand how God’s commands in (Exodus 12:6) were perfectly obeyed by Moses, and the congregation of Israel, then Lutherans can’t possibly clearly understand how Jesus, and Jesus’ family and friends, perfectly obeyed God’s commands in (Exodus 12:6) during their lifetimes.


2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Footnote: [a] training, discipline


In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
I am sorry, but I fail to see whatever point you are attempting to make. We conservative Lutherans all believe the Scriptures....so not sure what your beef is.

It is apparent that one does not care that Lutherans are bearing "false" witness against other Lutherans, and that Lutherans are also bearing "false" witness to the world.

The last that I recall, bearing "false" witness against another, is a sin, and one must repent. Especially conservative Lutherans!

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
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Sorry, but I still do not see your point. Especially since the Israelites broke God's laws all the time, never perfectly obeying them, hence God sending other nations to harass them, oppress them, etc. And letting them be carried off into captivity for 70 years. Even Moses disobeyed God on one occassion, so God would not allow him into the holy Land.

Jesus alone of all humanity obeyed God perfectly, never sinning even once. No one else on earth has ever done so. We are all sinners, which is why we need Jesus. By grace through faith in Him, His blood covers our sins, making us righteous in God's sight. :)

No one on here denies that all Scripture is God-breathed...who on here has written otherwise?
 
All three Lutheran positions below claim “truth” “according to the Scriptures”. (i.e. Exodus 12:6 - “beyn ha’arbayim – “between two evenings” – “twilight”)

Which Lutheran doctrinal position is true “according to the Scriptures”? (1)?; (2)?; (3)?

Which Lutheran doctrinal positions are bearing “false” witness? (1)?; (2)?; (3)? (i.e. contrary to God’s commands to Moses in Exodus 12 – Passover)

There is only “one” Holy Spirit “inspired” meaning of “beyn ha’arbayim – “between two evenings” – “twilight” – “according to the Scriptures”. (i.e. "first" mention – Exodus 12:6)



ss|(1)_____________________(_2_)ss|(3)________________________ss|


Key: - ss| (sunset)

Key: - Exodus 12:6 - “beyn ha’arbayim” – “between two evenings” – “twilight” – positions (1); (2); (3)

  • (1) – twilight beginning Nisan 14 - between sunset and “end of daylight” – from Jewish man’s perspective – sunset to sunset reckoning
  • (2) – twilight between 3 p.m. and 6 p.m. ending Nisan 14 afternoon – sunset to sunset reckoning
  • (3) – twilight ending Nisan 14 – between sunset and “end of daylight” – from God’s Perspective – (i.e. Nisan 14 from God’s Perspective - “beginning of daylight” (morning) to “end of daylight” (evening) reckoning - (i.e. Genesis 1:5) (Numbers 9:15,21))

Key: - Exodus 12:6 - “beyn ha’arbayim” – “between two evenings” – “twilight” – positions (1); (2); (3)

  • (1) – (i.e. LCMS doctrine – i.e. per interim President Dr. Daniel Preus - Concordia Seminary St. Louis )
  • (2) – (i.e. WELS doctrine – i.e. W. Georgi’s doctrine - Concordia Theological Monthly -Vol. XVIII; April, 1947; No. 4) (p. 264, last paragraph)
  • (3) – (i.e. Paschal Lamb Ministries’ doctrine – i.e. David Behrens' doctrine - baptized and confirmed in the Lutheran traditions (LCMS) within the one true faith – Biblical Judeo/Christian faith (Genesis 1:1 – Revelation 22:21))


Note1: All Lutherans are bound by Scriptural authority (Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21), and by the Lutheran Confessions’ authority - not to make public or declare for truth, anything that cannot be properly proved with sufficient clear evidence. (i.e. Reference: The Book of Concord - The Large Catechism - The Ten Commandments - The Eighth Commandment - 254] 271] 272]; (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21))

Note2: (LCMS) Concordia Seminary St. Louis interim President Dr. Daniel Preus confirmed to Paschal Lamb Ministries in November, 2020, that W. Georgi’s article (Concordia Theological Monthly -Vol. XVIII; April, 1947; No. 4), was never adopted by Concordia Seminary as its official position, and that it cannot be said that Concordia Seminary St. Louis espouses W. Georgi’s views.


So, Lutherans, which doctrine truthfully shows how Moses, and the congregation of Israel, obeyed God’s commands in (Exodus 12:6) perfectly? If Lutherans don’t clearly understand how God’s commands in (Exodus 12:6) were perfectly obeyed by Moses, and the congregation of Israel, then Lutherans can’t possibly clearly understand how Jesus, and Jesus’ family and friends, perfectly obeyed God’s commands in (Exodus 12:6) during their lifetimes.


2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Footnote: [a] training, discipline


In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
So where are your purported official "Lutheran" doctrinal staements? Or do you mean to say that someone somewhere at sometimr said or implied X?

Where in the OT or NT does it state that Moses and the congregation perfectly obeyed this particular command or another?

Who is bearing false witness?
 
Exactly! Where did the Israelites obey God perfectly? Remember the golden calf? They disobeyed God all the time! And while true Christians are no longer under the control of sin, we still sin. Which is why Paul wrote in Romans 7:

18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Even so great a Christian as Paul still sinned and recognized that God delivered him through Jesus Christ.

And remember when Paul had to rebuke Peter for his hypocrisy concerning the Gentiles when men came from James for a visit (in Galatians). So no, not even Christians obey God perfectly, 100% of the time. But thanks be to Jesus Christ, He has saved us from our sins!
 
(Matthew 7:23; Matthew 25:41; Luke 13:27)

If one does not repent, then one will be on the wrong side of the Door. Good riddance!

Stop bearing false witness against believers in Jesus Christ on earth.

Obey Christ!

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
(Matthew 7:23; Matthew 25:41; Luke 13:27)

If one does not repent, then one will be on the wrong side of the Door. Good riddance!

Stop bearing false witness against believers in Jesus Christ on earth.

Obey Christ!

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
Who is bearing false witness against anyone? It is God's truth that in the OT the Israelites never obeyed God perfectly, nor did Christians in the NT. Are you denying this obvious truth? That is why we need Jesus Christ, because He DID obey perfectly. Never sinning even once. That is why He was the perfect sacrifice for our sins, once, for all time. When we trust and believe in Him for salvation, great and free, then Jesus' blood covers us, making us righteous in God's eyes. But it is Jesus' righteousness, for we have none of our own to boast about!

BTW--far from bringing Christian unity to the world, you have been doing the exact opposite on here. It appears that anyone who disagrees with you is hell-bound. Well, Jesus will be our judge and He knows we have not been bearing false witness against anyone on here.

And what should we repent of? Not doing as you want us to do? Not believing exactly as you do? What? Because before God, neither I nor BJ has any reason to repent of anything on here.
 
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Sorry, but I still do not see your point. Especially since the Israelites broke God's laws all the time, never perfectly obeying them, hence God sending other nations to harass them, oppress them, etc. And letting them be carried off into captivity for 70 years. Even Moses disobeyed God on one occassion, so God would not allow him into the holy Land.

Jesus alone of all humanity obeyed God perfectly, never sinning even once. No one else on earth has ever done so. We are all sinners, which is why we need Jesus. By grace through faith in Him, His blood covers our sins, making us righteous in God's sight. :)

No one on here denies that all Scripture is God-breathed...who on here has written otherwise? All Lutherans are bound by Scriptural authority (Genesis 1:1 - Revelation 22:21), and by the Lutheran Confessions’ authority - not to make public or declare for truth, anything that cannot be properly proved with sufficient clear evidence. (i.e. Reference: The Book of Concord - The Large Catechism - The Ten Commandments - The Eighth Commandment - 254] 271] 272]; (1 Thessalonians 5:19-21))

Who is bearing false witness against anyone? It is God's truth that in the OT the Israelites never obeyed God perfectly, nor did Christians in the NT. Are you denying this obvious truth? That is why we need Jesus Christ, because He DID obey perfectly. Never sinning even once. That is why He was the perfect sacrifice for our sins, once, for all time. When we trust and believe in Him for salvation, great and free, then Jesus' blood covers us, making us righteous in God's eyes. But it is Jesus' righteousness, for we have none of our own to boast about!

BTW--far from bringing Christian unity to the world, you have been doing the exact opposite on here. It appears that anyone who disagrees with you is hell-bound. Well, Jesus will be our judge and He knows we have not been bearing false witness against anyone on here.

And what should we repent of? Not doing as you want us to do? Not believing exactly as you do? What? Because before God, neither I nor BJ has any reason to repent of anything on here.

Answer the questions in context. Is this too difficult for you?

Which Lutheran doctrinal position is true “according to the Scriptures”? (1)?; (2)?; (3)?

Which Lutheran doctrinal positions are bearing “false” witness? (1)?; (2)?; (3)? (i.e. contrary to God’s commands to Moses in Exodus 12 – Passover)

There is only “one” Holy Spirit “inspired” meaning of “beyn ha’arbayim – “between two evenings” – “twilight” – “according to the Scriptures”. (i.e. "first" mention – Exodus 12:6)



ss|(1)_____________________(_2_)ss|(3)________________________ss|


Key: - ss| (sunset)

Key: - Exodus 12:6 - “beyn ha’arbayim” – “between two evenings” – “twilight” – positions (1); (2); (3)

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
So where are your purported official "Lutheran" doctrinal staements? Or do you mean to say that someone somewhere at sometimr said or implied X?

Where in the OT or NT does it state that Moses and the congregation perfectly obeyed this particular command or another?

Who is bearing false witness?

(2nd) tier of Authority – The Lutheran Confessions' authority The Book of Concord - The Large Catechism - The Ten Commandments - The Eighth Commandment - 254] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 271] False witness, then, is everything which cannot be properly proved. 272] Therefore, what is not manifest upon sufficient evidence no one shall make public or declare for truth;

Did you catch that? - no one shall make public or declare for truth - yes, that even includes the Pope!

If the evidence is "not" sufficient and clear (i.e. properly proved), that Jesus was crucified on the sixth day of the week (i.e. as you have implied), then why do Lutherans violate the second tier of authority (i.e. Lutheran Confessions authority), by making public, and declaring for truth the doctrine of the Papacy, and the doctrine of Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine, in practice? (i.e. Reference: Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine's (decree - order - epistle) delivered to the Church's (West/East) bishops, shortly after the Council of Nicaea A.D. 325)

Lutherans also violate the first tier of authority - Holy Scripture - (i.e. John 4:24), when they worship under the Papacy's subjective truth, the same subjective truth that the Papacy welcomed and received from their pagan god on earth - Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine. If one is going to be so easily deceived on earth, then why not go deeper into the pit, and practice alchemy in the Christian seminaries and in the Christian universities? Or continue to teach the flat earth and geocentric earth models in the Christian seminaries and in the Christian universities? The Popes really enjoyed their time at the center of the entire solar system, with everything revolving around "their" dogma.

Are Lutherans de-evolving back into Roman Catholicism dogma? (i.e. refusing reprove - refusing correction - refusing instruction in righteousness - 2 Timothy 3:16-17) If that's what one wants, it is one's choice) Good riddance!

Actions speak louder than words! (i.e. hypocrisy)

Obey Christ! (i.e. Nisan 14 - Christ our Passover - Spirit of the law only, always - true Apostolic doctrine)

Stop obeying Caesar! (i.e. Friday - Nisan 15 - 100% deception - "not" a truer order "according to the Scriptures" - letter of the law only, always)

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
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(2nd) tier of Authority – The Lutheran Confessions' authority The Book of Concord - The Large Catechism - The Ten Commandments - The Eighth Commandment - 254] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 271] False witness, then, is everything which cannot be properly proved. 272] Therefore, what is not manifest upon sufficient evidence no one shall make public or declare for truth;

Did you catch that? - no one shall make public or declare for truth - yes, that even includes the Pope!

If the evidence is "not" sufficient and clear (i.e. properly proved), that Jesus was crucified on the sixth day of the week (i.e. as you have implied), then why do Lutherans violate the second tier of authority (i.e. Lutheran Confessions authority), by making public, and declaring for truth the doctrine of the Papacy, and the doctrine of Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine, in practice? (i.e. Reference: Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine's (decree - order - epistle) delivered to the Church's (West/East) bishops, shortly after the Council of Nicaea A.D. 325)

Lutherans also violate the first tier of authority - Holy Scripture - (i.e. John 4:24), when they worship under the Papacy's subjective truth, the same subjective truth that the Papacy welcomed and received from their pagan god on earth - Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine. If one is going to be so easily deceived on earth, then why not go deeper into the pit, and practice alchemy in the Christian seminaries and in the Christian universities? Or continue to teach the flat earth and geocentric earth models in the Christian seminaries and in the Christian universities? The Popes really enjoyed their time at the center of the entire solar system, with everything revolving around "their" dogma.

Are Lutherans de-evolving back into Roman Catholicism dogma? (i.e. refusing reprove - refusing correction - refusing instruction in righteousness - 2 Timothy 3:16-17) If that's what one wants, it is one's choice) Good riddance!

Actions speak louder than words! (i.e. hypocrisy)

Obey Christ! (i.e. Nisan 14 - Christ our Passover - Spirit of the law only, always - true Apostolic doctrine)

Stop obeying Caesar! (i.e. Friday - Nisan 15 - 100% deception - "not" a truer order "according to the Scriptures" - letter of the law only, always)

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
Jesus was crucified on a Friday. We are not going by the Pope or Catholicism. The Bible makes that clear.

As for that Hebrew phrase, I had contacted a cyber scholar friend, Dr. Bob Luginbill, who is an expert in Biblical Greek and Hebrew, about this, four years ago. He had written this back to me:

The Hebrew phrase beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם) means literally "between the evenings" and "twilight" is generally how this is understood since the sacrifices are known to have been conducted just after sunrise and just before sunset, that is, at a time when it was neither "night nor day" from that point of view.

I have run into a great many individuals who seem to have staked their entire faith and Christian existence on proving that Friday was not the day of the crucifixion (it was), and that it was "really" Thursday . . . or Wednesday (depending upon the disputant in question). Needless to say this requires all manner of linguistic gymnastics to pull off, and always involves recourse to the phrase above, imputing some sort of mysterious meaning to the words which is not evident even to a Hebrew reader who has not been initiated into this mystery. One thing I will note from the post you include is that "what it really means" is not given up. This is analogous to internet adds which tell you how to lose weight with a simple trick or some such thing, but don't give up the secret until you buy the book (it's a classic sales, and therefore "cult", technique).

Matthew 28:1 has Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ εἰς μίαν σαββάτων; which translated a bit over-literally means "and after the Sabbath at first light (τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ) on the first day of the [next] week" -- in other words, "first thing Sunday morning" (Easter).

Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,

Bob L.

I still am not sure what your beef is. Is it about a difference of opinion between two different Lutheran scholars, that you had in your OP? I don't know enough Greek or Hebrew to know one way or another. I just go by what the Bible says.

You wrote this:

  • (3) – (i.e. Paschal Lamb Ministries’ doctrine – i.e. David Behrens' doctrine - baptized and confirmed in the Lutheran traditions (LCMS) within the one true faith – Biblical Judeo/Christian faith (Genesis 1:1 – Revelation 22:21))
Does this mean you are a Lutheran?

No one is bearing false witness against anyone, except in your mind. But you made two glaring errors on here:

1. Claimed that Moses and Israel perfectly obeyed God's commands, and so did the NT folks (paraphrasing a little)
2. Implied that the "after 2 days" Matthew 26:2 was a prophesy (paraphrasing), when it is not.

I proved you were incorrect in both cases--didn't I? And I used the Bible.

As for answering questions, you didn't answer BJ's did you?

So where are your purported official "Lutheran" doctrinal statements? Or do you mean to say that someone somewhere at sometime said or implied X?

Where in the OT or NT does it state that Moses and the congregation perfectly obeyed this particular command or another?

We do not worship under the Papacy's "subjective truth". Nor are we "devolving" into papism, or whatever word you used. Maybe the ultra liberal ELCA is, but not the conservative LCMS, WELS, and ELS.

I still don't know what you are so het up about...a difference of opinion between two scholars? What? My church teaches and has always taught that Jesus died on Friday, and rose again, right around sunrise on Sunday morning.
 
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Jesus was crucified on a Friday. We are not going by the Pope or Catholicism. The Bible makes that clear.
Bonnie hasn't proved anything.

(2nd) tier of Authority – The Lutheran Confessions' authority The Book of Concord - The Large Catechism - The Ten Commandments - The Eighth Commandment - 254] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 271] False witness, then, is everything which cannot be properly proved. 272] Therefore, what is not manifest upon sufficient evidence no one shall make public or declare for truth;

One is bearing false witness to believers in Jesus Christ on earth, according to the authority of the Lutheran Confessions. Repent.

One is giving lip service and pagan opinion, in matters where proper proof is required. (i.e. (Matthew 15:7-9))

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
Bonnie hasn't proved anything.

(2nd) tier of Authority – The Lutheran Confessions' authority The Book of Concord - The Large Catechism - The Ten Commandments - The Eighth Commandment - 254] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 271] False witness, then, is everything which cannot be properly proved. 272] Therefore, what is not manifest upon sufficient evidence no one shall make public or declare for truth;

One is bearing false witness to believers in Jesus Christ on earth, according to the authority of the Lutheran Confessions. Repent.

One is giving lip service and pagan opinion, in matters where proper proof is required. (i.e. (Matthew 15:7-9))

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
Yes, I did prove something. I proved you wrong about the Israelites and NT Christians ALWAYS obeying God, that you were wrong about that. I also proved that you were incorrect about the "after 2 days" in Matt. 26:2 being some sort of "prophesy." But you will not acknowledge your error...why? You expect us to, but you will not do it, yourself?

Your entire post is a non-answer. You did not deal with a single point I made, or what Luginbill wrote. Nor did you answer BJ's questions, or mine. Why is that?

And you did not answer THIS question either: Are you a Lutheran, or were you? Because you wrote this:

  • (3) – (i.e. Paschal Lamb Ministries’ doctrine – i.e. David Behrens' doctrine - baptized and confirmed in the Lutheran traditions (LCMS) within the one true faith – Biblical Judeo/Christian faith (Genesis 1:1 – Revelation 22:21))

The Bible clearly demonstrates that Jesus died on Friday, and rose very early on Sunday, around sunrise. That is not some pagan tradition. It is biblical. I will believe what it says over what you say. So, I have nothing to repent of.
















y
 
As for that Hebrew phrase, I had contacted a cyber scholar friend, Dr. Bob Luginbill, who is an expert in Biblical Greek and Hebrew, about this, four years ago. He had written this back to me:

The Hebrew phrase beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם) means literally "between the evenings" and "twilight" is generally how this is understood since the sacrifices are known to have been conducted just after sunrise and just before sunset, that is, at a time when it was neither "night nor day" from that point of view.I have run into a great many individuals who seem to have staked their entire faith and Christian existence on proving that Friday was not the day of the crucifixion (it was), and that it was "really" Thursday . . . or Wednesday (depending upon the disputant in question). Needless to say this requires all manner of linguistic gymnastics to pull off, and always involves recourse to the phrase above, imputing some sort of mysterious meaning to the words which is not evident even to a Hebrew reader who has not been initiated into this mystery. One thing I will note from the post you include is that "what it really means" is not given up. This is analogous to internet adds which tell you how to lose weight with a simple trick or some such thing, but don't give up the secret until you buy the book (it's a classic sales, and therefore "cult", technique).

Matthew 28:1 has Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ εἰς μίαν σαββάτων; which translated a bit over-literally means "and after the Sabbath at first light (τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ) on the first day of the [next] week" -- in other words, "first thing Sunday morning" (Easter).

Yours in our dear Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,

Bob L.

Regarding "between two evenings" (i.e. Hebrew phrase beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם), Bob L. wrote,

[https://ichthys.com/mail-bible-interpretation7.htm – Response 5

“As to the reason for this particular expression, the first "evening" is sunset; the second "evening" is darkness; our twilight is "[the time] between". ]

* Dr. Bob L. firmly stands in the (LCMS) doctrine – Position (1) in my illustration (i.e. [the time] between sunset and darkness)

But wait, Bob L. also wrote,

[https://ichthys.com/mail-Aspects-of-CrucifixionII.htm – Response 2

“The phrase occurs first at the references given: Ex.12:6; 29:39-41. The Hebrew phrase is beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם). It means literally "between the evenings" and "twilight" is generally how this is understood since the sacrifices are known to have been conducted just after sunrise and just before sunset, that is, at a time when it was neither "night nor day" from that point of view.”]

* Dr. Bob L. firmly stands in the (WELS) doctrine – Position (2) in my illustration (i.e. just before sunset)

So Bonnie, you decide, which expert Bob L. doctrine is bearing false witness against believers in Jesus Christ on earth? Which expert Bob L. doctrine explains the Hebrew phrase’s [beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם)] “first meaning”, the one that Moses and the congregation of Israel obeyed in (Exodus 12:6)? Are these three questions too difficult for one, or from one's expert to answer?

One does realize there is only “one” Holy Spirit “inspired” meaning of the Hebrew phrase [beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם)] “according to the Scriptures”? The Holy Spirit never contradicts the Holy Spirit (i.e. Jesus Christ and Dr. Martin Luther would agree, i.e. both experts on Holy Scripture), yet one can clearly see that Lutheran doctrine does contradict Lutheran doctrine, and Bob L.’s expert doctrine does contradict Bob L.’s expert doctrine, on this “specific” meaning of the Hebrew phrase [beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם)]! (i.e. Ephesians 5:11-13)


In Christ’s service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
Regarding "between two evenings" (i.e. Hebrew phrase beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם), Bob L. wrote,

[https://ichthys.com/mail-bible-interpretation7.htm – Response 5

“As to the reason for this particular expression, the first "evening" is sunset; the second "evening" is darkness; our twilight is "[the time] between". ]

* Dr. Bob L. firmly stands in the (LCMS) doctrine – Position (1) in my illustration (i.e. [the time] between sunset and darkness)

But wait, Bob L. also wrote,

[https://ichthys.com/mail-Aspects-of-CrucifixionII.htm – Response 2

“The phrase occurs first at the references given: Ex.12:6; 29:39-41. The Hebrew phrase is beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם). It means literally "between the evenings" and "twilight" is generally how this is understood since the sacrifices are known to have been conducted just after sunrise and just before sunset, that is, at a time when it was neither "night nor day" from that point of view.”]

* Dr. Bob L. firmly stands in the (WELS) doctrine – Position (2) in my illustration (i.e. just before sunset)

So Bonnie, you decide, which expert Bob L. doctrine is bearing false witness against believers in Jesus Christ on earth? Which expert Bob L. doctrine explains the Hebrew phrase’s [beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם)] “first meaning”, the one that Moses and the congregation of Israel obeyed in (Exodus 12:6)? Are these three questions too difficult for one, or from one's expert to answer?

One does realize there is only “one” Holy Spirit “inspired” meaning of the Hebrew phrase [beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם)] “according to the Scriptures”? The Holy Spirit never contradicts the Holy Spirit (i.e. Jesus Christ and Dr. Martin Luther would agree, i.e. both experts on Holy Scripture), yet one can clearly see that Lutheran doctrine does contradict Lutheran doctrine, and Bob L.’s expert doctrine does contradict Bob L.’s expert doctrine, on this “specific” meaning of the Hebrew phrase [beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם)]! (i.e. Ephesians 5:11-13)


In Christ’s service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
I will write to him and ask him. But words in Greek and Hebrew can have different meanings, depending upon context, you know. But I think you may be misreading him, as you did the Matthew 26:2 verse, because I note this in your quote from him:

...the second "evening" is darkness; our twilight is "[the time] BETWEEN". ]

and

The Hebrew phrase is beyn ha'arabiyim (בֵּין הָעַרְבָּֽיִם). It means literally "BETWEEN the evenings" and "twilight" is generally how this is understood,

Looks to me that he simply had two different ways of saying the same thing. But I wrote to him, to make sure.

Meanwhile, are my questions and BJ's too hard for YOU to answer? Is my point about Matthew 26:2 too hard to grasp? Is my question about whether or not you are or were a Lutheran that hard to answer??

No one is bearing false witness. Except in your own mind.
 
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(2nd) tier of Authority – The Lutheran Confessions' authority The Book of Concord - The Large Catechism - The Ten Commandments - The Eighth Commandment - 254] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor. 271] False witness, then, is everything which cannot be properly proved. 272] Therefore, what is not manifest upon sufficient evidence no one shall make public or declare for truth;

Did you catch that? - no one shall make public or declare for truth - yes, that even includes the Pope!

If the evidence is "not" sufficient and clear (i.e. properly proved), that Jesus was crucified on the sixth day of the week (i.e. as you have implied), then why do Lutherans violate the second tier of authority (i.e. Lutheran Confessions authority), by making public, and declaring for truth the doctrine of the Papacy, and the doctrine of Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine, in practice? (i.e. Reference: Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine's (decree - order - epistle) delivered to the Church's (West/East) bishops, shortly after the Council of Nicaea A.D. 325)

Lutherans also violate the first tier of authority - Holy Scripture - (i.e. John 4:24), when they worship under the Papacy's subjective truth, the same subjective truth that the Papacy welcomed and received from their pagan god on earth - Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine. If one is going to be so easily deceived on earth, then why not go deeper into the pit, and practice alchemy in the Christian seminaries and in the Christian universities? Or continue to teach the flat earth and geocentric earth models in the Christian seminaries and in the Christian universities? The Popes really enjoyed their time at the center of the entire solar system, with everything revolving around "their" dogma.

Are Lutherans de-evolving back into Roman Catholicism dogma? (i.e. refusing reprove - refusing correction - refusing instruction in righteousness - 2 Timothy 3:16-17) If that's what one wants, it is one's choice) Good riddance!

Actions speak louder than words! (i.e. hypocrisy)

Obey Christ! (i.e. Nisan 14 - Christ our Passover - Spirit of the law only, always - true Apostolic doctrine)

Stop obeying Caesar! (i.e. Friday - Nisan 15 - 100% deception - "not" a truer order "according to the Scriptures" - letter of the law only, always)

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
Re: The large Catechism, eighth commandment: There is nothing private about Scripture, official doctrinal statements, or posts on the boards. Therefore your citation of it dorsn't apply for the reasons stated.

The bottom line is your stated interpretation thus far doesn't account for the above, nor that the liturgical calendar is only an organizational device that is used at the discretion of the pastor and congregation, and the difference in calendars.

Obviously, when we come to passages cited in the Gottesdienst or Bible study regarding actual events recorded in the NT occuring during Holy Week we read them and understand them as they are written. We don't stop and do a what is written and what is read type of exercise.

I'll ask again, who is bearing false witness?
 
Re: The large Catechism, eighth commandment: There is nothing private about Scripture, official doctrinal statements, or posts on the boards. Therefore your citation of it dorsn't apply for the reasons stated.

The bottom line is your stated interpretation thus far doesn't account for the above, nor that the liturgical calendar is only an organizational device that is used at the discretion of the pastor and congregation, and the difference in calendars.

Obviously, when we come to passages cited in the Gottesdienst or Bible study regarding actual events recorded in the NT occuring during Holy Week we read them and understand them as they are written. We don't stop and do a what is written and what is read type of exercise.

I'll ask again, who is bearing false witness?
I see no bearing of false witness, either. And we are not "devolving" into Catholics, either, just because we follow a liturgical year, have pastors who wear albs and stoles, have three Bible readings each service, etc. Such things are "audiophora-- neither commanded nor forbidden. Whatever traditions in worship are used in churches are fine if they are respectful, for God's glory, and point to Jesus Christ.
 
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I see no bearing of false witness, either. And we are not "devolving" into Catholics, either, just because we follow a liturgical year, have pastors who wear albs and stoles, have three Bible readings each service, etc. Such things are "audiophora-- neither commanded nor forbidden. Whatever traditions in worship are used in churches are fine if they are respectful, for God's glory and point to Jesus Christ.
There was a reformation in which church custom was a topic. You've summarized our view well.
 
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