Lutheran doctrine contradicts Lutheran doctrine (i.e. Exodus 12 – Passover Instituted)

The "doctrine" you have quoted from this publication is about Jesus' dying on Good Friday, which is indeed a doctrine in our church--NOT about what time of day the Paschal lamb was slaughtered. PLEASE learn to discern the difference.
[Official Doctrinal Statements of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod - Years: 1847-1998

(i.e. Church orthodox 1947 40, 485 Doctrine actually taught in pulpits, schools, and publications determines the orthodoxy of a Church. (Brief Statement, 29))]

The doctrine that I quoted included many Lutheran teachings of the LCMS, according to the official LCMS Doctrinal statement. Stop ignoring the truth.

What's your beef with the "doctrine of Christ". (i.e. Matthew 26:2; Mark 8:31)?

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 

Bonnie

Super Member
[Official Doctrinal Statements of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod - Years: 1847-1998

(i.e. Church orthodox 1947 40, 485 Doctrine actually taught in pulpits, schools, and publications determines the orthodoxy of a Church. (Brief Statement, 29))]

The doctrine that I quoted included many Lutheran teachings of the LCMS, according to the official LCMS Doctrinal statement. Stop ignoring the truth.

What's your beef with the "doctrine of Christ". (i.e. Matthew 26:2; Mark 8:31)?

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
Where's your beef about refusing to see that the DOCTRINE in what you quoted was about the day--Friday--Jesus was crucified on--NOT the time of day the Paschal lamb was slaughtered for the Last Supper? Please discern the difference.
 
Where's your beef about refusing to see that the DOCTRINE in what you quoted was about the day--Friday--Jesus was crucified on--NOT the time of day the Paschal lamb was slaughtered for the Last Supper? Please discern the difference.

Please understand the official doctrinal statements of the LCMS.

[Official Doctrinal Statements of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod - Years: 1847-1998

(i.e. Doctrine correction 1926 11, 144 Every member of Synod has a responsibility to insist on the correction of doctrinally erroneous statements printed in official publications))]

Specifically,

(3rd) tier of Authority - W. Georgi's exegesis of Holy Scripture - (Exodus 12:6) – Reference: “Timelog of Jesus’ Last Days”. (Concordia Theological Monthly -Vol. XVIII; April, 1947; No. 4); (p. 264, last paragraph)

“The Passover lamb was killed on Nisan 14, between the two
evenings, 3 P. M. and 6 P. M. (Ex. 12: 6).2
2 See Addition No. II.”


That's exactly what the original post is all about. Lutheran positions (1) and (2) are contrary to Holy Scripture, and would have had Jesus walking "according to custom". (i.e. Pharisaic custom) Lutheran position (3) reflects how Jesus actually walked "according to the Scriptures"!

1st) tier of Authority - Scripture's authority

(Matthew 19:17-19) – (i.e. … You shall not bear false witness …)
(John 4:22-24) – (i.e. … must worship in spirit and truth)
(1 John 2:21) – (i.e. … no lie is of the truth)
(Colossians 3:8-10) – (i.e. … Do not lie to one another …)


2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Footnote: [a] training, discipline


Truth matters! Abide in the "doctrine of Christ"! (i.e. 2 John 9)


In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Please understand the official doctrinal statements of the LCMS.

[Official Doctrinal Statements of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod - Years: 1847-1998

(i.e. Doctrine correction 1926 11, 144 Every member of Synod has a responsibility to insist on the correction of doctrinally erroneous statements printed in official publications))]

Specifically,

(3rd) tier of Authority - W. Georgi's exegesis of Holy Scripture - (Exodus 12:6) – Reference: “Timelog of Jesus’ Last Days”. (Concordia Theological Monthly -Vol. XVIII; April, 1947; No. 4); (p. 264, last paragraph)

“The Passover lamb was killed on Nisan 14, between the two
evenings, 3 P. M. and 6 P. M. (Ex. 12: 6).2
2 See Addition No. II.”


That's exactly what the original post is all about. Lutheran positions (1) and (2) are contrary to Holy Scripture, and would have had Jesus walking "according to custom". (i.e. Pharisaic custom) Lutheran position (3) reflects how Jesus actually walked "according to the Scriptures"!

1st) tier of Authority - Scripture's authority

(Matthew 19:17-19) – (i.e. … You shall not bear false witness …)
(John 4:22-24) – (i.e. … must worship in spirit and truth)
(1 John 2:21) – (i.e. … no lie is of the truth)
(Colossians 3:8-10) – (i.e. … Do not lie to one another …)


2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Footnote: [a] training, discipline


Truth matters! Abide in the "doctrine of Christ"! (i.e. 2 John 9)


In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
Please understand that the time of day the Paschal lamb was slaughtered before Jesus' last supper is not a doctrine in our church--the DAY on which Jesus died IS. Please learn the difference.
 
Please understand that the time of day the Paschal lamb was slaughtered before Jesus' last supper is not a doctrine in our church--the DAY on which Jesus died IS. Please learn the difference.
The Paschal lamb was not slaughtered before Jesus' last supper, see original post, "according to the Scriptures" position (3). Please stay on topic.

1st) tier of Authority - Scripture's authority

(Matthew 19:17-19) – (i.e. … You shall not bear false witness …)
(John 4:22-24) – (i.e. … must worship in spirit and truth)
(1 John 2:21) – (i.e. … no lie is of the truth)
(Colossians 3:8-10) – (i.e. … Do not lie to one another …)


I see now where your reasoning is not quite up to speed. You believe that all doctrine taught in the LCMS is official doctrine. Not true! Easter Sunday is official doctrine, but not Good Friday.

Official Doctrinal Statements of the Lutheran Church--Missouri ...
reference: projectwittenberg.org › resolutions PDF
Official Doctrinal Statements of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod. Years: 1847-1998. Topic. Subtopic. Date Vol., Page Summary. Absolution.
118 pages


Here is some more official LCMS doctrine.

[Official Doctrinal Statements of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod - Years: 1847-1998

(i.e. Doctrine Scriptural 1965 46, 102a There must be clear passages if there is doctrine))]
(i.e. Matthew 26:2; Mark 8:31)

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
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BJ Bear

Well-known member
Exactly.
It's as if he thinks God is watching with a stopwatch precise to the thousandth of a second, and will throw anyone in hell who is outside the range.

Reminds me of Jesus' comment about the Pharisees making sure to tithe on their mint and dill and cumin, but missing the more important aspects. What we call today, "majoring in the minors".

Btw, I'm Baptist, but I don't see the point of attacking Luther and Lutherans.
Like I've said in other forums, people who behave this way convince me that they need to review Gospel Basics 101.
Ya, what you said.

I'm an adult convert who became Lutheran because knowing only the Gospel of John everyone I ran into would give me their perspective and pitch except the Lutherans. Instead they gave me two maxims, go home read the Bible and tell them what it says and you can't know what Scripture means until you know what it says.
 
The Paschal lamb was not slaughtered before Jesus' last supper, see original post, "according to the Scriptures" position (3). Please stay on topic.

1st) tier of Authority - Scripture's authority

(Matthew 19:17-19) – (i.e. … You shall not bear false witness …)
(John 4:22-24) – (i.e. … must worship in spirit and truth)
(1 John 2:21) – (i.e. … no lie is of the truth)
(Colossians 3:8-10) – (i.e. … Do not lie to one another …)

Here is some official LCMS doctrine.

[Official Doctrinal Statements of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod - Years: 1847-1998

(i.e. Doctrine Scriptural 1965 46, 102a There must be clear passages if there is doctrine))]
(i.e. Matthew 26:2; Mark 8:31)

If the Paschal lamb was slaughtered before Jesus' last supper (i.e. as many Lutherans mistakenly believe), all Lutherans would then be divided over the day of the month that Jesus' crucifixion occurred.

(LCMS) Lutherans - date of Jesus' crucifixion - Friday Nisan 14

(WELS) Lutherans - date of Jesus' crucifixion - Friday Nisan 15


Clearly, Dr. Martin Luther would have had a problem with the division caused by this "specific" Lutheran Biblical scholars' error in the exegesis of Exodus 12. (i.e. bearing false witness to believers in Jesus Christ "on earth")

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
Please understand that the time of day the Paschal lamb was slaughtered before Jesus' last supper is not a doctrine in our church--the DAY on which Jesus died IS. Please learn the difference.

Bonnie, please share with all Lutherans, the Official Lutheran doctrine of the LCMS that proclaims the DAY on which Jesus died. Thank you.

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
Ya, what you said.

I'm an adult convert who became Lutheran because knowing only the Gospel of John everyone I ran into would give me their perspective and pitch except the Lutherans. Instead they gave me two maxims, go home read the Bible and tell them what it says and you can't know what Scripture means until you know what it says.

Exactly. Go home and read the Bible.

One can't know what Scripture means (i.e. Exodus 12; Matthew 26:2; Mark 8:31; John 4:24; 2 John 9) - i.e. "doctrine of Christ"), until one knows what time the paschal lambs were slain "according to the Scriptures". (i.e. position (3) in original post)

One can't know what Scripture means until one knows what it says.

(12) (13) (14) - (Matthew 26:2) "after two days" - (Matthew 4:4; Luke 4:4)

(14) (15) (16) (17) - (Mark 8:31) "after three days" - (Matthew 4:4; Luke 4:4)

There is only one combination that works "according to the Scriptures"! (5th day of the week - 14th day of the month) The "doctrine of Christ" is always correct.

(LCMS) Lutherans can know exactly the day of the week that Jesus was crucified, by knowing the "doctrine of Christ" (Matthew 26:2; Mark 8:31), along with the official Lutheran doctrine (LCMS) regarding the day of Christ's Resurrection. (i.e. Sunday). Even Christian Lutheran children can figure this out by starting at Sunday, and working backwards to the Passover, "according to the "doctrine of Christ"". (Matthew 26:2 - LORD's Passover; Leviticus 23:5 - "twilight" position (3) in the original post; Mark 8:31)

Stop bearing the false witness of the Papacy and Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine "on earth". (i.e. Good Friday). Nothing good about it, from the perspective of a true worshiper of the Father "on earth". (i.e. "doctrine of Christ" - John 4:24) (i.e. "Good Friday" pagan worship "on earth" - 100% deception - Constantinian faith - "nullifies" the word of God "on earth" - "quenches" the Spirit "on earth" - "despises" all of Christ's fulfilled "verbatim" Resurrection prophecies "on earth") (i.e. 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21)

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
Please understand the official doctrinal statements of the LCMS.

[Official Doctrinal Statements of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod - Years: 1847-1998

(i.e. Doctrine correction 1926 11, 144 Every member of Synod has a responsibility to insist on the correction of doctrinally erroneous statements printed in official publications))]

Specifically,

(3rd) tier of Authority - W. Georgi's exegesis of Holy Scripture - (Exodus 12:6) – Reference: “Timelog of Jesus’ Last Days”. (Concordia Theological Monthly -Vol. XVIII; April, 1947; No. 4); (p. 264, last paragraph)

“The Passover lamb was killed on Nisan 14, between the two
evenings, 3 P. M. and 6 P. M. (Ex. 12: 6).2
2 See Addition No. II.”


That's exactly what the original post is all about. Lutheran positions (1) and (2) are contrary to Holy Scripture, and would have had Jesus walking "according to custom". (i.e. Pharisaic custom) Lutheran position (3) reflects how Jesus actually walked "according to the Scriptures"!

1st) tier of Authority - Scripture's authority

(Matthew 19:17-19) – (i.e. … You shall not bear false witness …)
(John 4:22-24) – (i.e. … must worship in spirit and truth)
(1 John 2:21) – (i.e. … no lie is of the truth)
(Colossians 3:8-10) – (i.e. … Do not lie to one another …)


2 Timothy 3:16-17 NKJV

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Footnote: [a] training, discipline


Truth matters! Abide in the "doctrine of Christ"! (i.e. 2 John 9)


Bonnie, do you think that every member of Synod (LCMS) who insists on the correction of doctrinally erroneous statements printed in official publications, is not a Lutheran, or just me? (i.e. post 89)

Where is the love of Lutherans toward believers in Jesus Christ "on earth"?

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
Exactly. Go home and read the Bible.
That has been more or less my advice to you regarding your claims in this regard from the beginning, for years now. After all these years you still haven't provided any Scriptural witness that the Gentiles are to adopt the Jewish calendar and no witness that Christ was not raised from the dead,

A distant minute point is that after all these years you still have not provided an official Lutheran doctrinal statement on your topic. It is interesting that although you purportedly quoted a statement from an LCMS source saying they don't have a doctrinal statement on the matter you are again encouraging an LCMS person to share their official doctrine on the matter.

Repent.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Bonnie, please share with all Lutherans, the Official Lutheran doctrine of the LCMS that proclaims the DAY on which Jesus died. Thank you.

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
You can read that for yourself, so far as I know, on LCMS.org.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Bonnie, do you think that every member of Synod (LCMS) who insists on the correction of doctrinally erroneous statements printed in official publications, is not a Lutheran, or just me? (i.e. post 89)

The thing is, no one in my synod, so far as I know, has a hang-up about when the Paschal lamb was slaughtered, prior to Jesus' last Supper.
Where is the love of Lutherans toward believers in Jesus Christ "on earth"?

Having no official doctrine on when the Paschal lamb was slaughtered before the Last Supper shows a lack of love towards believers in Jesus Christ "on earth"?
In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
I see disharmony, not harmony, being brought to the world here. And not by BJ or me. You are making an issue out of a non-issue.
 
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You can read that for yourself, so far as I know, on LCMS.org.

Sorry, one is mistaken again. The LCMS.org, along with the CTCR, provides theological guidance and leadership only. The LCMS.org, along with the CTCR, does not provide official doctrinal statements. Please learn the difference.


[Official Doctrinal Statements of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod - Years: 1847-1998
(i.e. Theology guidance 1998 60, 118a The CTCR as a body representative of the Synod provides theological guidance and leadership.))]


In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
The thing is, no one in my synod, so far as I know, has a hang-up about when the Paschal lamb was slaughtered, prior to Jesus' last Supper.


Having no official doctrine on when the Paschal lamb was slaughtered before the Last Supper shows a lack of love towards believers in Jesus Christ "on earth"?

I see disharmony, not harmony, being brought to the world here. And not by BJ or me. You are making an issue out of a non-issue.

Does one sow disharmony or harmony towards believers in Jesus Christ, when one proclaims that a believer in Jesus Christ is not a Lutheran?


In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 
That has been more or less my advice to you regarding your claims in this regard from the beginning, for years now. After all these years you still haven't provided any Scriptural witness that the Gentiles are to adopt the Jewish calendar and no witness that Christ was not raised from the dead,

A distant minute point is that after all these years you still have not provided an official Lutheran doctrinal statement on your topic. It is interesting that although you purportedly quoted a statement from an LCMS source saying they don't have a doctrinal statement on the matter you are again encouraging an LCMS person to share their official doctrine on the matter.

Repent.

Nonsense. I provide Scripture. In the LCMS, it's called the first tier of Authority. Learn the difference.

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
Nonsense. I provide Scripture. In the LCMS, it's called the first tier of Authority. Learn the difference.

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
That is an amusing attempt at misdirection. You have been asked for years for the scriptural command that the Gentiles are to adopt the Jewish calendar and also scriptural evidence that Christ was not raised from the dead and you have not provided either.

Instead you claim you have provided Scripture in the same way as the hypothetical guy who says, 'Scripture says men are from Mars and the scriptural evidence is 2 Samuel 10:1, "And Ahab had seventy sons in Samaria.""
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Sorry, one is mistaken again. The LCMS.org, along with the CTCR, provides theological guidance and leadership only. The LCMS.org, along with the CTCR, does not provide official doctrinal statements. Please learn the difference.


[Official Doctrinal Statements of the Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod - Years: 1847-1998
(i.e. Theology guidance 1998 60, 118a The CTCR as a body representative of the Synod provides theological guidance and leadership.))]


In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
You are incorrect. My synod has no doctrine about what time of day the Paschal lamb was slaughtered before the last supper. It is not a salvific belief in the least, since that is under the old covenant and we are in the new and better covenant in the blood of Jesus Christ.
 
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Bonnie

Super Member
Nonsense. I provide Scripture. In the LCMS, it's called the first tier of Authority. Learn the difference.

In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
Show me Scripture that says we are dammed unless we believe the Paschal lamb was slaughtered at such-and-such a time, prior to the Last Supper.

Show me.
 

BJ Bear

Well-known member
Does one sow disharmony or harmony towards believers in Jesus Christ, when one proclaims that a believer in Jesus Christ is not a Lutheran?


In Christ's service,
David Behrens
Soli Deo Gloria!
Bringing Christian harmony to all the world
If you are a believer in Jesus Christ then why do you post about this matter as if He was not raised for our justification? If you believe He was raised for our justification why do you insist on going beyond the scriptural witness of what is past?
 
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